Old TV western goofs

Big Al1Big Al1 Senior MemberPosts: 6,523 Senior Member
Was just watching an episode of "Wanted Dead or Alive" and watched Steve McQ fan off two shots with his Mares Leg, like fanning a six gun, without working the lever. Those old Winnies are amazing!!
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Comments

  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,156 Senior Member
    Hey, it's Steve McQueen! Shut up! :)
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,347 Senior Member
    Nothing like contrails in Westerns.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,915 Senior Member
    Anybody else ever notice that James Arness was a little slow on the draw at the beginning of every Gunsmoke show? The other guy always got off the first round, but they both must have been lousy shots- - - -they did it once a week for years and nobody died!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    The most common screwups I see are guns being used in time periods before they were invented....but of late, they have been getting better at it...I see Ferguson in "Hell on Wheels" is packing an open top Colt conversion....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Mike WeberMike Weber Member Posts: 91 Member
    Anybody else ever notice that James Arness was a little slow on the draw at the beginning of every Gunsmoke show? The other guy always got off the first round, but they both must have been lousy shots- - - -they did it once a week for years and nobody died!
    Jerry
    That fellow who James Arness was squaring off with at the opening of Gunsmoke was hollywood fast draw artist Arvo Ojala who taught gunhandling skills to a number of the 1950's-1960's era western stars. Notice in that scene as James Arness who stood 6'5 draws and fires his colt that the muzzle is pointing upward. Arvo Ojala was short only about 5'5 or 5'6. Arvo Ojala designed those steel lined buscadero rigged holsters that allowed the hammer to be cocked while the gun was still holstered speeding up the hollywood fast draw.
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 6,523 Senior Member
    I suppose it was easy to miss a lot mistakes, back then, since most of us were watching on a 19" B&W tv with rabbit ears and various amounts of snow. Things are lot different on a 55" flat screen!!
  • BarrydBarryd Member Posts: 186 Member
    Big Al1 wrote: »
    I suppose it was easy to miss a lot mistakes, back then, since most of us were watching on a 19" B&W tv with rabbit ears and various amounts of snow. Things are lot different on a 55" flat screen!!

    Ain't that the truth.:guns:
    Barry
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Let us not forget those rare and exclusive 20 shot six-guns. To think, we were exposed to "assault weapons" at an early age.......cause nobody ever had to reload their gun!
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • gunrunner428gunrunner428 Senior Member Posts: 1,018 Senior Member
    Paladin, in "Have Gun Will Travel", spoke of the rifled barrel of his Colt Peacemaker as if it were an unusual custom touch.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,915 Senior Member
    Those 20-shot Colt Peacemakers were pretty popular in the chase scenes in the Roy Rogers and Hopalong Cassidy movies, back before TV got popular. Tom Mix, too!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Mike WeberMike Weber Member Posts: 91 Member
    I remember some of the early episodes of Bonanza which was supposed to be set in the 1860's. The Cartwrights carrying what were supposed to be Henry rifles. These turned out to be model 1873 Winchesters with the forearm stock removed and the receivers painted gold. Some of those closeup shots showing the sideplates of the 73 Winnie.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 5,638 Senior Member
    Wasn't just the westerns either... I recall Cannon going up against a 'Army trained sharpshooter' with his competition 'target rifle' (looked like a run-of-the-mill 20" AR15). The sharpshooter couldn't hit Cannon @ 200 yards with the rifle, (which should have been a chip shot for the guy, considering his supposed abilities, and Cannon's immense girth) but Cannon was able to return fire and score a kill shot with his .38 snubby.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    Not just the old westerns. "Tombstone" and the gunfight at OK Corral Doc Holilday fires about twenty rounds from his pistol. Both hands. But such things seldom take away from the movie. Same thing in "Open Range."
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • ddrillerddriller Member Posts: 77 Member
    check out the size of the cartridges carried in the chest bandoliers in the usual western when the gun was usually a Win 92
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,347 Senior Member
    Add to the 20 shot revolvers the fact that the bad guys were always shooting multiple rounds skyward when they rode into town, and still had enough ammo left to rob the bank/stage or have a shootout with the sheriff's posse. Then leave town shooting skyward some more! Ammo must have been cheap and plentiful.

    Oh, and no-one ever got hit by any of those ballistic rounds returning to earth!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • tbarnztbarnz Member Posts: 66 Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    Wasn't just the westerns either... I recall Cannon going up against a 'Army trained sharpshooter' with his competition 'target rifle' (looked like a run-of-the-mill 20" AR15). The sharpshooter couldn't hit Cannon @ 200 yards with the rifle, (which should have been a chip shot for the guy, considering his supposed abilities, and Cannon's immense girth) but Cannon was able to return fire and score a kill shot with his .38 snubby.

    I remember that one! And my father saying the same thing.
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 2,925 Senior Member
    tbarnz wrote: »
    I remember that one! And my father saying the same thing.

    In defense of that rifle, when I was a member of SAC's Rifle/Pistol team, we had run-of-the-mill ARs (at least they looked like it) that were about as finely tuned and accurized as that rifle could be. The triggers were beautiful and they'd group right up there with modern ARs with floating tubes and all the foo-foo-dust gizmos they have now. But they looked just like a Viet Nam era M-16 cosmetically.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,156 Senior Member
    While we're presenting gripes about westerns, I have one on Tombstone. Doc never said "I'm your huckleberry," and seeing it quoted ad infinitum bugs me.

    What he said was "I'm your hucklebearer," but with Kilmer's southern accent it got softened. In the 19th century, the handles on one's coffin were referred to as "huckles." So Doc offering to bear Ringo's huckle meant that he'd happily take him to his grave.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • StringmanStringman New Member Posts: 5 New Member
    By watching the opening gunfight on Gunsmoke, you can tell whether it is an old one with Chester, or a newer one with Festus. Undoubtedly, the gunfight was filmed twice. If Matt Dillon's holster is tied down to his leg, it is an old one. If the tie down thongs are hanging loose, beside his leg, then it is a newer one.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    And the ammo in Josh Randall's belt looked the length of 45-70s. I believe the Rifleman fired about a dozen rounds in the opening of the show.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    While we're presenting gripes about westerns, I have one on Tombstone. Doc never said "I'm your huckleberry," and seeing it quoted ad infinitum bugs me.

    What he said was "I'm your hucklebearer," but with Kilmer's southern accent it got softened. In the 19th century, the handles on one's coffin were referred to as "huckles." So Doc offering to bear Ringo's huckle meant that he'd happily take him to his grave.

    I referenced this on the web, and there is an argument for what the meaning of "huckleberry" and "huckle bearer". However, watching the two times when Kilmer said it, it is definitely "huckleberry." As "I'm the man." It also says that the script reads "huckleberry." And finally, it says on one of the web sites that Kilmer signed an autograph with "I'm your huckleberry."

    Huckle bearer makes more sense, if anyone in the audience knew what a huckle was. Otherwise it's an obscure reference.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,082 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    The most common screwups I see are guns being used in time periods before they were invented....but of late, they have been getting better at it...I see Ferguson in "Hell on Wheels" is packing an open top Colt conversion....

    Yep, hell On Wheels is fairly good and put a little research into the firearms.

    Civil War or just after Westerns having them carry Colt Peacemakers way before 1873 , Calvary carrying lever action Winchesters and a cowboy using the same .45 Colt ammo in his rifle and SA from his gun-belt. No lever guns were made in .45 Colt until many many years later.

    How about the sheriff's using the butt/grip frame of their nice Colts fer a hammer to tack up wanted posters!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    While we're presenting gripes about westerns, I have one on Tombstone. Doc never said "I'm your huckleberry," and seeing it quoted ad infinitum bugs me.

    What he said was "I'm your hucklebearer," but with Kilmer's southern accent it got softened. In the 19th century, the handles on one's coffin were referred to as "huckles." So Doc offering to bear Ringo's huckle meant that he'd happily take him to his grave.

    I would respectfully disagree. The huckleberry was once worn in a garland by ancient British knights who'd won tournaments, a wreath of victory, and the huckeberry denoted bravery. The original meaning got slowly corrupted and in the 19th century, it was an insult, implying that the person was a catamite (homosexual sex toy), and the Doc Holliday insult was legit for that era, and essentially "fightin' words".

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I referenced this on the web, and there is an argument for what the meaning of "huckleberry" and "huckle bearer". However, watching the two times when Kilmer said it, it is definitely "huckleberry." As "I'm the man." It also says that the script reads "huckleberry." And finally, it says on one of the web sites that Kilmer signed an autograph with "I'm your huckleberry."

    Huckle bearer makes more sense, if anyone in the audience knew what a huckle was. Otherwise it's an obscure reference.

    Obscure to say the least. They get so many other things wrong and expect the audience to get that one?

    Anyway on the mistakes thing. In the opening montage, I think it's the opening, Matt Dillon is riding his galloping horse and suddenly his holster starts flopping around wildly. He finally notices it and rearranges it. Seems like they would have redone that to me at least.
    Also these people were evidently lightening fast at hitching up a team. And their horses are seemingly always saddled. And unless it's integral to the storyline of the episode they never have a rodeo.
    Some general observations. The best look at revolvers I've seen so far are, ironically, on the Rifleman. Ben Cartwright had a magnificent holster. I can't get a good look but it looks like full quill Ostrich.
    And in every saloon they have counter top beer taps. What's powering that beer through the lines? Are the barrels of beer on the roof for a gravity feed?
    Anyway, I'm probably guilty of epic failure to suspend disbelief. Still...
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    Also means rustic, like Huckleberry Finn.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 36,652 Senior Member
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »

    You live to far North to pick up the accent, and anyway can we just stop trying to debunk one of the best movie lines ever, in the history of ever?
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »

    Not to this Southern guy.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,338 Senior Member
    I always thought it sounded like "hucklebearer", but, I figured that was because Doc was drunk, which he was, always, and couldn't enunciate "huckleberry".
    Not that I knew what a hucklebearer was before today.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 36,652 Senior Member
    I always thought it was berry, and still do.
    But listening to it after hearing the controversy, it sounds like bearer.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
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