Auto Shotgun for Home Defense?
Bullgator
MemberPosts: 393 Member
Why is it everyone seems to recommend a pump action shotgun for home defense? Is there something inherently unreliable about auto loaders? We are trusting of auto handguns and carbines, why not shotguns?
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Jerry
ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
- George Orwell
You give up a certain amount of that ammo versatility with an autoloader. A pump will run with ANYTHING that is packed into a shell of the correct length, where an autoloader will only run with stuff that's in it's "happy" pressure / recoil zone. It's not that autos are necessarily less reliable, but they are more susceptible to the human error of loading rounds the gun won't like. Just make sure you wring the gun out thoroughly with the ammo you plan to go to war with.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I would never feel undergunned at all with my Benelli M1 S90 or SBE if I had to take either one into a gunfight. The secret is what was written above. Stoke either with a 3" magnum waterfowl load and you are gonna ruin someone's day. They don't fail when it is -10 and blowing snow, I am sure they won't fail between the bedroom and living room. Would either be my first choice? NO . But, without a doubt, either would get the job down with extreme prejudice.
This gun has proven its self to me. There are others I wouldn't do anything but shoot skeet with. Auto loaders have came a long way.
Hey Jayhawker, care to share your reasons here? Inquiring minds want to know...
Pump shotguns generally cost far less than a comparable-quailty auto (which is a BIG factor for a lot of folks, myself included). When you cut corners on your auto to get down to a price comparable to the pump, you run into the ammo sensitivity issue and find the cheaper auto will be more finicky on how clean it's kept.
The state-of-the-art in autoloading shotguns has come a long way, even in the last twenty years, but it speaks volumes to me that most law-enforcement agencies still equip their officers with the tried and proven pump-action over the new breed of semi-autos for reasons that make sense to a large majority of private defensive shotgun buyers, despite trading out wholesale from revolvers to pistols for sidearm use. Ease of operation, ease of service and repair, adaptability through aftermarket equipment, and unit cost all play a factor, I'm sure.
The only shotgun that I've ever owned that failed consistently was my 870 express. The action was smooth as butter, until you fired it, then it locked up tighter than a bank vault. On a few occasions, it took holding down the pump release and beating on the forearm itself with a rubber mallet before it would open. I put fifty rounds through it, and it locked up on literally all fifty rounds.
My Benelli/HK M1 Super 90 on the other hand, has been going strong for the last ten years. It's fed anything I've put through it, from wal-mart bulk birdshot, to 1 3/8 oz. Brenneke slugs. I haven't run any of the new low recoil buck shot through it, but I think it would probably do okay with that as well.
You can guess which one gets my vote for a bedside scatter gun.
My bedside 870 is an old Wingmaster with an 18 1/2" barrel with an extended mag and a plain old bead sight...it's plain and simple and anyone in the house can make it work with a minimum of familiarization. My autos were always double duty guns...comp guns, turkey guns, coyote guns that might or might not be there.
The 870 has one use and one use only, to stand ready to defend my home....
That don't sound like you're having a failure, it's sounds like you've got a major malfunction, from the get-go.
I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
I'd agree with Olesniper on that one. There was an inherent failure with that particular gun. The only time I've had my 870 bind was using Winchester Super Speed, and that garbage will jam anything. That was more the fired shell expanding in the chamber and holding up the action. Poor materials used in those rounds.
Oh, and yes, my 870 Talo sits by the bed watching over us.
You just need to make sure that your autoloader is going to be reliable with whatever you're going to load it with. I have an old 1100 that I would bet my next paycheck is at LEAST as reliable as any pump you can dig up with any brand of reliable 2 3/4" ammo. I guarantee that I can smoke off 4 shells faster and more accurately with it than you can with whatever brand of pump you care to choose. I would have NO problem recommending a quality semi-auto shotgun for home defense.
Luis
2. Dedicated SD/HD shotgun or something you can sport with as well, say, hog hunting? A lot of folks don't like a single-function gun. But with an SD/HD piece, prepare for that. It is what it is--an insurance policy. But, never consider a bird gun for SD/HD. But, I don't see anyone making that misconception here.
3. Pump or auto--the debate of the thread:
You have to train - regardless of which you choose - or you will fumble with failures of action. I emphasize this to folks all the time, but it's rarely taken to heart. Running a shotgun in a truely defensive (read: offensive life-saving measures) manner is like flying a helicopter with one bad foot and a hook for a right hand. Train. Please. That is my preface.
With a semi-auto, you have to consider recoil with follow-up shots. On a pump gun, the recoil is done and over with by the time you cycle to the next round. With a semi-auto, on the other hand, there can be no pause between shots if fired rapidly enough. An inexperienced shotgunner with a semi-auto can easily get muzzle-high in three rounds fired rapidly without experience in dealing with it. Even with hunting semi-autos, you do not fire as quickly as you likely will feel the need to in a SD/HD situation. When I duck hunt, I am looking at one shot per second at the quickest. In SD/HD scenarios three per second may occur. Just something to consider.
Reloads with a semi-auto are pretty much the same as with a pump, the exception being a bolt release button rather than pushing the foregrip forward on a pump. I would recommend an enlarged button release on a semi-auto.
With a pump, the biggest hurdle is training yourself to cycle the darn thing under stress. People just plain forget to do it and pull the trigger twice as if it were semi-auto. And a semi-suto locks back when its empty, a pump won't. But no worries, the time wasted in running a pump home on an empty chamber, hearing the click with no bang and yanking it open to begin the reload is fairly negligible. Besides, SD/HD shotguns typically have 6+1 magazines, so if it ain't done in 7 rounds from 12 feet away, you won't survive the reload of a semi or a pump.
The greater than or less than $1000 thing is this. Even if you find a pump on sale for about $450 with decent ghost rings already on it, you still need to invest in a GOOD sling, a light (possibly) and copius amounts of ammunition to train with that will easily breech the $1000 threshold when all said and done.
A shotgun is a hell of a tool for sure. Lots of hurt, real fast.
-Jason
to kill you, your most likely going to be in a rush,I know I am when I shoot birds, That's just my opinion
Zee
There are exceptions, but the typical "sexy" combat autoloaders can approach and exceed a thousand bucks. That's a thousand bucks for a sub-100 yard weapon. . .that isn't rifled. . . that may have ammo-type sensitivity issues. . .that you'll probably have to give up as evidence if you ever have to use it.
GOOD pump guns can be found for $200 bucks, GREAT ones for not a whole lot more.
While there are obvious benefits to a self-cycling action, one has to ask whether it's worth the added cost and potential drawbacks. If you can comfortably absorb the $1500 expense of a Benelli M4, good on you, but how many things can a plain Mossberg 500 not do as well?
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Yeah. I was using the least expensive possibility to illustrate the costs that can soar. But, I don't shoot cheap, unfortunately. Others may get away with less, but I like to shoot on top of the fact I like training with guns I own.
That was a missal from Ned's Notes.
I think it was their track record I saw when I was growing up. Most people called them jama matics back then.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I'll disagree with that. My old Remington 1100 has fired THOUSANDS of rounds without a single failure. I keep it relatively clean, but still.... the performance record is flawless. Definitely better than most will be able to do with a pump that they aren't experts with.
I wouldn't hesitate to run any full power load through it for defense. The only time I've EVER had it fail to feed was with some of those ultra-light (AA? or AAA? forget what they were called) target loads for clay. Any standard 2 3/4" load has always worked with no issues... whether it was low brass #7 1/2 birdshot, or magnum #4 buck, 00 buck, or slugs.
Cost comparison.... what's a used 1100 go for these days? $400? Surely not more than that. Add $100 for another barrel, and you're in business for not much more than most new pumps.
Luis
ps. just checked Gunbroker.... PLENTY of 1100's for $300ish.