Taking a knife attack seriously

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Comments

  • Hondo341Hondo341 Member Posts: 448 Member
    I know we were taught the 21' rule in the SO. But, it was qualified that you didn't want to wait until they hit the 21'. That is simply the "red zone" so to speak. I believe the way the lawyers/courts coddle the perps is why there is so much hesitation......ie Ferguson, etc. Bad guys certainly have more of an edge today; no pun intended.
    "People are responsible to play a role in their own safety." Sheriff David Clarke 2016
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,823 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I knew you understood the game. I just didn't want others to think, if they were fast enough on the draw that they could stop an attacker wielding a knife by simply getting a shot off before contact.

    Not correcting you. Just adding to.........for others benefit.

    My beautiful French Model, you.


    :wink:
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 5,638 Senior Member
    I won't go so far as to say that somebody who doesn't take a knife attack/'man with a knife' seriously deserves to be cut, but not taking such things seriously is foolhardy.

    Frankly, this discussion has me reconsidering my thoughts on that shooting in Chicago last year...If memory serves, the cop allowed the kid to get much closer than have should have, even though the kid was walking a path that wouldn't take him to the cop, but past him...it would have put the guy WAY inside the 'safe' zone.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    Another reason: this weekend, a nut attacked and stabbed 9 people in a mall in St. Cloud, MN. He was killed by an armed off-duty PO from another jurisdiction. The mayor of St. Cloud said the PO, whose name was Joseph Falconer, was attacked from 20 feet and shot the guy three times. Each time he shot, the guy fell but got up and tried to attack.

    The mayor said the attacker covered 20 feet in 2 seconds. Said he was armed with something like "a kitchen knife." It's on film and should be a part of training for anyone who CC a firearm for protection of him/herself or others.

    I'd like to know what the PO was toting, but thank God he was armed.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • bowserbbowserb Member Posts: 277 Member
    Worth note. The Crossroads mall is another No Firearms or Other Weapons facility. Surprised?
    "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history." - Ayn Rand
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 5,638 Senior Member
    So, one has to ask; Would John Q. be facing legal issues if the person who stopped the attack wasn't a LEO?

    The cynic in me thinks it's a possibility.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,032 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    So, one has to ask; Would John Q. be facing legal issues if the person who stopped the attack wasn't a LEO?

    The cynic in me thinks it's a possibility.

    GREAT question!
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • big elkbig elk Member Posts: 106 Member
    The lawmen should have more training, But I've had no training and the attacker would be down when he makes the first step towards me.I'd try for a leg first if I miss and he keeps advancing I'd empty my gun on the upper body; I don't think he would keep advancing with 5 to 6 rounds in him, but I'd try and never run. All of this is easy to say but you never know how you would react when it is actually happening.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 36,652 Senior Member
    big elk wrote: »
    The lawmen should have more training, But I've had no training and the attacker would be down when he makes the first step towards me.I'd try for a leg first if I miss and he keeps advancing I'd empty my gun on the upper body; I don't think he would keep advancing with 5 to 6 rounds in him, but I'd try and never run. All of this is easy to say but you never know how you would react when it is actually happening.
    Shooting at/for a leg is the dumbest thing you could ever do.
    A. Small target. Good luck hitting a moving leg under stress. Hint:it ain't happening.
    B. You hit a leg, and don't hit it good, Mr Scumbag is still coming for you. Does a center mass shot ensure he will stop? No, but, it's a MUCH larger area to hit, and while not 100% certain it will stop someone, it's a better chance than a leg.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,961 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Shooting at/for a leg is the dumbest thing you could ever do.
    A. Small target. Good luck hitting a moving leg under stress. Hint:it ain't happening.
    B. You hit a leg, and don't hit it good, Mr Scumbag is still coming for you. Does a center mass shot ensure he will stop? No, but, it's a MUCH larger area to hit, and while not 100% certain it will stop someone, it's a better chance than a leg.

    This.

    Forget the leg! Forget the head.

    Center mass, start the clock and keep hitting center mass until the clock stops ticking. It's the biggest target ya got!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 5,638 Senior Member
    Never shoot for the legs. Shoot for the hands, so the attacker can't hold a knife! :jester:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I cant imagine anyone thats ever been attacked not taking it seriously.

    Ive been assaulted at knife point twice in my life. Admittedly niether time was an all out attack although the second one degenerated to that. IMO an attack on a un uniformed citizen would likely be in the form of a hands on scuffle and one would have to deploy their handgun during the scuffle while receiving knife wounds.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,657 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    I cant imagine anyone thats ever been attacked not taking it seriously.

    Ive been assaulted at knife point twice in my life. Admittedly niether time was an all out attack although the second one degenerated to that. IMO an attack on a un uniformed citizen would likely be in the form of a hands on scuffle and one would have to deploy their handgun during the scuffle while receiving knife wounds.

    Sounds right to me. I remember from my teen years that a lot of the hardcore thugs carried those cheap switchblades and would use them as 'fist-loads' in a scuffle, so they could be secretly deployed as a stabbing weapon, if they started losing badly. Thinking back, that was actually a kinder, gentler era - nowadays, the thugs will just go to weapons, from the very beginning.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    So, one has to ask; Would John Q. be facing legal issues if the person who stopped the attack wasn't a LEO?

    The cynic in me thinks it's a possibility.

    Shoot someone, whether LEO or civilian, you're going to get sued. Especially if it's not in personal threat. Maybe or almost certainly not criminal issues, but possibly civil.

    It costs $40 to submit a lawsuit with a helluva return if the plaintiff wins with no cost for loss. And many lawyers start off making $13K a year which makes hungry lawyers so you see why you'll get sued. Been there, done that.

    It goes with the territory.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Shoot someone, whether LEO or civilian, you're going to get sued. Especially if it's not in personal threat. Maybe or almost certainly not criminal issues, but possibly civil.

    It costs $40 to submit a lawsuit with a helluva return if the plaintiff wins with no cost for loss. And many lawyers start off making $13K a year which makes hungry lawyers so you see why you'll get sued. Been there, done that.

    It goes with the territory.

    This used to be the case, but now not so much...there are several states that have clauses in their Self Defense Acts (or whatever they are called in those particular states)that provide immunity from civil suits should the shooting be determined to be within the law....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 16,561 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This used to be the case, but now not so much...there are several states that have clauses in their Self Defense Acts (or whatever they are called in those particular states)that provide immunity from civil suits should the shooting be determined to be within the law....
    :that:

    I know Alabama's one of them. If it's a justified shoot, "somedood's" family cannot bring a civil suit.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • SmileySmiley Member Posts: 201 Member
    Same in Texas.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    MI and KS as well
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,032 Senior Member
    NC too. A justified shooting can not be the subject of criminal or civil action, SPECIALLY if the receiver of the lead pills was in the process of committing a crime like B&E into your home or violent action agains you or yours... :cool2:
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,032 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    This.

    Forget the leg! Forget the head.

    Center mass, start the clock and keep hitting center mass until the clock stops ticking. It's the biggest target ya got!

    Would it make sense after a few COM shots to start aiming lower to the pelvis, specially if the attacker is moving towards you?
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,913 Senior Member
    "Mozambique triple-tap"- - - - -crotch, chest, forehead!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,961 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    "Mozambique triple-tap"- - - - -crotch, chest, forehead!
    Jerry

    Looks cool on the range and sounds bad ass. In actual application..........you moving.........them moving..........the cranial vault is a hard target. If it's just you and the bad guy with no other innocents around and you wanna launch a round at the head.........have fun. If there are people in the background and you miss the low percentage head shot.......you still own that bullet and whatever it hits.

    I am going to send my rounds where they are most effective and where I am most likely to hit. Every situation is different. But, what is MOST likely to be happening is that ONE or BOTH of us are gonna be moving! How many of you high speed individuals here practice on your calm flat range with you AND/OR the target moving? Now, do it with a little stress.

    Right.

    "Mozambique Drill" my ass.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SmileySmiley Member Posts: 201 Member
    No, I'll do the Bill Drill, all three in the chest. :guns:
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 5,638 Senior Member
    Smiley wrote: »
    No, I'll do the Bill Drill, all three in the chest. :guns:


    If three is good, four is better and five....hooahh!


    I'm mostly joking, of course. For folks who live-as I do-in a less than rural area...training for reality is not encouraged.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,032 Senior Member
    250 round practice session yesterday :tooth: I love having the range and a 3 berm pistol range to myself. Shoot til it hurts baby... :cool2:
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • stetsonstetson Member Posts: 42 Member
    I heard 21 foot rule been increased to 30 feet.Thoughts?I am an old guy so the extra 9 feet make make the difference of how the event transpires.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 22,594 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    If three is good, four is better and five....hooahh!


    I'm mostly joking, of course. For folks who live-as I do-in a less than rural area...training for reality is not encouraged.
    Make friends with a local farmer and use his back 40 by the wood lot.
    My new Signature
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,551 Senior Member
    stetson wrote: »
    I heard 21 foot rule been increased to 30 feet.Thoughts?I am an old guy so the extra 9 feet make make the difference of how the event transpires.
    1. It's not a real rule.
    2. Distance depends on several factors. If you're old, less mobile, and have slower reaction times, you're allowed a greater bubble.
    3. It doesn't have to be a knife.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,961 Senior Member
    1. It's not a real rule.

    PirateCode.jpg
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Wild DogWild Dog Banned Posts: 67 Member
    If a man comes at me with a knife all he's doing is giving me a knife, if you catch my drift?:cool:
    Woof Woof, Dirtbag!!!

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