Laminated stock warpage?

LinefinderLinefinder ModeratorPosts: 3,971 Senior Member
Anybody ever experience it? I thought it wasn't possible, with a quality stock. (REM factory).

But I'm beginning to think it happened to me. I'm pretty sure the 1" Krieger barrel didn't get bent.

Mike
Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
KSU Firefighter
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Comments

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,140 Senior Member
    What happened? Rifle not shootin right? Sure it's the stock?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,963 Senior Member
    Details.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 22,626 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    What happened? Rifle not shootin right? Sure it's the stock?
    Maybe he is thinking about the bucket
    My new Signature
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    A machinist could maybe confirm it.

    Stuff happens. Could have been manufactured wrong.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,140 Senior Member
    Hey, maybe he had to fight off some Rustlers from Kansas and butt stroked the last couple after he ran outta ammo and warped his stock puttin them down?

    He could make it an interesting story fer us...................................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,337 Senior Member
    As dry as it is here, you wouldn't think they would warp. Maybe the bedding is coming loose?
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    I missed a couple of yotes a couple if years back at 80 yards with my 6mm Rem. I haven't shot it since. That's the rifle that makes pretty sure work of 700 yard pdogs.

    Anyway, Yesterday I decided to do a good cleaning in anticipation of antelope later this year.

    The action has been previously bedded, and the barrel free floated. Yesterday, when I tried to slide a dollar bill under the barrel, it tore not one, but two in half. The barrel was touching the stock at about the 9 o'clock position. Near the forend. It's never done that before. I actually had to sand a "fair" amount away before a bill would slide unencumbered again.

    I'm stumped.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,963 Senior Member
    Did you remove and reinstall the barreled action before sanding? Just to check center and tightness?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Did you remove and reinstall the barreled action before sanding? Just to check center and tightness?

    Yeah. Twice.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,963 Senior Member
    Poop.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,963 Senior Member
    How do you store the rifle? What position/orientation?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Poop.

    Yeah. My sentiments exactly.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    How do you store the rifle? What position/orientation?

    In the safe, muzzle down.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,963 Senior Member
    You're not helping. You're supposed to confess to some bafoonery.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    You're not helping. You're supposed to confess to some bafoonery.

    C'MON dude. After all these years, it shouldn't take a confession.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,963 Senior Member
    Yeah, but we need to narrow down the bafoonery to a potential cause of your troubles. General bafoonery doesn't count.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,194 Senior Member
    Well, since you asked, I ordered a Boyds stock for a Mauser '98 project and cut off enough of the butt to use the scrap as grip panels for a knife project.

    I used the belt sander to sand everything smooth (no proud wood) and then put some sort of finish on it.

    After I lived in Hawaii for a couple of years I got it out and was surprised how much the wood had swollen. You could easily see and feel how much the wood expanded around the tang of the knife.
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Yeah, but we need to narrow down the bafoonery to a potential cause of your troubles. General bafoonery doesn't count.

    I prefer my buffoonery to be general in nature, since specialized buffoonery cuts down on the opportunities to commit more buffoonery.

    It's simply math, moron.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    PFD wrote: »
    Well, since you asked, I ordered a Boyds stock for a Mauser '98 project and cut off enough of the butt to use the scrap as grip panels for a knife project.

    I used the belt sander to sand everything smooth (no proud wood) and then put some sort of finish on it.

    After I lived in Hawaii for a couple of years I got it out and was surprised how much the wood had swollen. You could easily see and feel how much the wood expanded around the tang of the knife.

    And that was a laminated stock? Here, the humidity is high if it hits 20%. Usually it's lower. But...my smith did dig out the barrel channel some, and that's been almost 10 years ago.

    Maybe a lam stock is impervious only when the original finish isn't breached?
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 16,584 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »

    Maybe a lam stock is impervious only when the original finish isn't breached?
    I wouldn't think so. They basically saturate the layers before they put it together (I think)
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    I wouldn't think so. They basically saturate the layers before they put it together (I think)

    Exactly what I thought. The bedding is good, and the barrel channel was good. This is weird.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,194 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    And that was a laminated stock? Here, the humidity is high if it hits 20%. Usually it's lower. But...my smith did dig out the barrel channel some, and that's been almost 10 years ago.

    Maybe a lam stock is impervious only when the original finish isn't breached?

    I'm like knitepoet, I thought they were laminated with epoxy or something similar.

    [IMG][/img]DSCN0369.jpg
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    OK, lets talk a minute about laminated wood! (complements of your forestry-saw milling buddy)

    A log on the sawmill is sawn in either what we call "flat-sawn" or "quarter sawn", or some degree in between. Laminated stocks will be much more stable and less subject to shrinkage-expansion if properly flat sawn only wood is used. Look at 100% of German WWII laminated 98k stocks (pre-1944) and you'll see what I'm talking about. If the grain is 30% or more off flat sawn, then you're subject to have some distortion or stock movement in the final product depending on air moisture content. Insist on 100% quarter sawn and you'll probably have no problem with stock movement!
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Is it possible that the wood shrunk do to extraordinary dryness?
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,335 Senior Member
    I don't see how the wood would change, but I guess all things are possible. Epoxy could shrink over the years.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,306 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I missed a couple of yotes a couple if years back at 80 yards with my 6mm Rem. I haven't shot it since.

    Mike

    That there might be the problem. Maybe guns are like wimmen, ignore them and when you do finally pay attention they are swollen up with all their bottled up anger......
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 4,960 Senior Member
    PFD wrote: »
    I'm like knitepoet, I thought they were laminated with epoxy or something similar.

    [IMG][/img]DSCN0369.jpg


    If the sections in the picture are what you made the scales out of, that's solid end-grain and it's almost impossible to keep it from sucking up moisture like a bunch of little capillary straws. Wood is mostly closed cell and any sealants will only penetrate a certain depth and if the surface is cut, it needs to be resealed like solid wood. When wood is cut and stored to dry for stocks, the end grain is usually sealed to make the wood dry slowly and uniformly and prevent checking. Even with laminated wood, the grain density will vary between the sheets of laminate and some will absorb the adhesive deeper than others. Whenever you cut or sand into it, it's a good idea to reseal it just like you would with solid wood.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,704 Senior Member
    If it's a factory stock, due to mass production it could maybe have some flaws between the laminates and dried uneven over time. Whatever stock it is, it's apparent that it must have warped whether it was caused by uneven sealing or improperly cured wood and you probably need to refinish the whole thing and seal the barrel channel with a good epoxy varnish, or maybe just a few coats of True Oil.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,503 Senior Member
    Laminate for wood rifle stocks is coated on one side with epoxy and another layer is laid on that. The process is repeated until the desired thickness is reached, then the laminate is put in a hydraulic press that also heats the laminate 'sandwich' to force epoxy into the wood and set the epoxy, and squeeze out any air bubbles. There's a Youtube video out there somewhere on how it's done, but I can't find it. The laminate is made the same way plywood is made as to gluing and pressing; only real difference is the epoxy used for sticking the laminate sheets together, and the thickness of the wood.

    When cut and made into rifle stocks the wood is sealed after the stock is finished; if you do any sanding or otherwise break the sealant then the wood can soak up moisture, because the epoxy does NOT fully penetrate the wood. Free floating a barrel involves breaking that sealant as you remove it with the wood removed. If you don't reseal the wood then it will absorb moisture over time, and it will warp.

    Everyone has their favorite finish for wood stocks. For areas that aren't normally seen except when the barreled action is removed MY personal preference is to use thinned polyurethane spar varnish. The thinned polyurethane soaks into the wood and when dry, seals the wood from moisture intrusion. How much is enough? When it won't absorb a further coating, then it is sealed.

    I ruined a Mauser 98 laminate stock because I didn't seal it after removing enough wood to freefloat the barrel. Barrel was touching about 3 inches at the end of the forend. Over a few years the high humidity here worked its magic and the forend warped. I used the stock later on a 98 carbine; cut off the warped part of the forend, reshaped the forend inside and out, bedded the barrel shank, and sealed the sanded wood with the thinned polyurethane spar varnish. Finished off the entire stock with the unthinned poly and sanded with 600 grit to satin finish. It hasn't warped yet and I did that over 20 years ago.
    A double action revolver is a semiauto firearm. It fires once for every trigger pull.



  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,003 Senior Member
    I witnessed Mike kill a prairie dog at a laser measured 794 yards with this rifle. I also saw him miss those two coyotes at rock throwing distance with the same rifle. Earlier that day, he missed a running antelope by about a football field.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
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