Boy Scouts of America wanting to accept Girls as scouts?

13

Replies

  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,286 Senior Member
    I don't see it as PC crap. I see it as not telling groups of people "you're not allowed". Whatever the reason my be to exclude them. Be it sex, gender, religion, sexual orientation,disability, etc.
    this

    does not jive with this
    That said I also am against people trying to force different standards so they can be included. If someone from a traditionally excluded group wants to join give them the chance to try out on equal footing weather that is Navy seal training or the local hs football team.
    You mean like a belief in a higher power? Being mentally awake and morally straight? The chance to try out has always been on equal footing. Are you a boy? Y-N, Y keep going, N, have a nice day. Do you believe in a higher power? Y-N Y keep going, N have a nice day.

    Its not about doing the work to join. A 30 year man could do the work, should the BSA not discriminate against him? Why not have dads who were not scouts make rank right along with their boy scouts? Because they are not BOYS. There are standards. If you dont make Eagle by 18 and are short one merit badge, even if you did the work, if you havent turned the card in, to bad, so sad. 18th B day, you are out.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,292 Senior Member
    I don't see it as PC crap. I see it as not telling groups of people "you're not allowed". Whatever the reason my be to exclude them. Be it sex, gender, religion, sexual orientation, disability, etc. That said I also am against people trying to force different standards so they can be included. If someone from a traditionally excluded group wants to join give them the chance to try out on equal footing weather that is Navy seal training or the local hs football team.
    I will add I also don't think the boy scouts as a private organization should necessarily be forced to allow anyone in. They are a private club and it's their choice. But their choices will impact who will allow their kids to join and who will donate their time and money to the organization and may impact the degree to which they are given preferential access to federal resources.

    Since you brought up the military, the military REGULARLY turns folks away for a variety of reasons.
    Some of those reasons are:

    Hand, neck, and facial tattoos
    Bad credit
    Diabetes
    Drug usage
    Gauges in ears or any other area
    Piercings other than the ears, and you better have some flesh colored studs for them ears
    Prior arrest record, felonies, convictions thereof
    Mental health issues

    And quite a few more than that. There is no 'right' to serve in the military, period.
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,907 Senior Member
    this

    does not jive with this

    You mean like a belief in a higher power? Being mentally awake and morally straight? The chance to try out has always been on equal footing. Are you a boy? Y-N, Y keep going, N, have a nice day. Do you believe in a higher power? Y-N Y keep going, N have a nice day.

    Its not about doing the work to join. A 30 year man could do the work, should the BSA not discriminate against him? Why not have dads who were not scouts make rank right along with their boy scouts? Because they are not BOYS. There are standards. If you dont make Eagle by 18 and are short one merit badge, even if you did the work, if you havent turned the card in, to bad, so sad. 18th B day, you are out.
    I disagree. Using a different example for the military, I'd be perfectly fine letting anyone who wants to enter Navy Seal training. Anyone who can make it through without washing out should be able to serve.

    As for not believing in I higher power, I made it all the way to Heart as an open and avowed atheist. Sure that's easier to cover up or fake than not having a penis. It didn't make me any less capable as a scout.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,000 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Before you ask, NO, I don't know where the Ark of the Covenant is...
    Its in a warehouse out west somewhere... :tooth:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,286 Senior Member
    I disagree. Using a different example for the military, I'd be perfectly fine letting anyone who wants to enter Navy Seal training. Anyone who can make it through without washing out should be able to serve.
    So you are OK with standards you like, but the ones you dont like it is OK to force you opinion on others.....
    As for not believing in I higher power, I made it all the way to Heart as an open and avowed atheist. Sure that's easier to cover up or fake than not having a penis. It didn't make me any less capable as a scout.
    There is no Heart rank in Scouting. Scout, Tenderfoot, 1st Class, 2nd Class, Star, Life, Eagle. So how capable were you again that you didnt know or forgot what you earned?
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,907 Senior Member
    So you are OK with standards you like, but the ones you dont like it is OK to force you opinion on others.....

    There is no Heart rank in Scouting. Scout, Tenderfoot, 1st Class, 2nd Class, Star, Life, Eagle. So how capable were you again that you didnt know or forgot what you earned?
    Sorry life. The badge has a heart on it. I fully admit I was in in for the camping, hiking, rafting, and shooting and didn't care much about badges or rank.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,078 Senior Member
    Didn't the black caucus refuse to admit a fellow congressman recently cause he was Mexican? Don't liberals follow their own rules? Only if it benefits their cause I suppose.

    Granted this was a long time ago but we had a few female crew chiefs working on the the flight line. What was a one man job normally always required two if a female was involved. I remember many a time being pulled off an airplane to go help a female, often higher ranking, do something I was made to do alone. They may say the standards are the same but in real life, it ain't so.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,292 Senior Member
    I disagree. Using a different example for the military, I'd be perfectly fine letting anyone who wants to enter Navy Seal training. Anyone who can make it through without washing out should be able to serve.

    As for not believing in I higher power, I made it all the way to Heart as an open and avowed atheist. Sure that's easier to cover up or fake than not having a penis. It didn't make me any less capable as a scout.

    Sorry, but there are extremely high standards for even being considered for Seal Training, or any other Special Forces training. One has to meet those minimum qualifications to even be considered for the training. And another clue; the military puts you where they NEED you, not where you WANT to be. You can fill out the 'dream sheet' but that isn't going to get you anywhere that they don't want/have need for you to be.

    Are there females with the requisite upper body strength required for Seal training? A few are, but the physical qualifications are only a part of it. The mental strength is also a great deal of that training, too. The Navy, and military in general, has neither the time nor the money to waste weeding through a bunch of troops that WANT to take that training. Due to budgetary constraints, the special ops is ONLY open to those who have an extremely high probability of success, and even then, in Seal training, quite a few of a given class 'ring the bell' and voluntarily wash out.
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    Our (now) assistant Scout Master (former Scout Master and now Venturing Assistant...female and, um, well, figure it out...third husband) is hailing it as a good thing.

    My response... (Yeah, it was a response to her on FaceCarp.

    Well, I'm now "just a dad" after 6 years as a leader, and I can't make sense of this nonsense; BOY= BOY Scouts. GIRL= Girl Scouts. If people think that BOY SCOUTS is so much better, maybe GIRL Scouts should work on their program instead of trying to make a new "social experiment". Are there "boys and girls" restrooms...and not just for staff? Oh, "no"...more money...follow the money trail. I am not politically correct and do not plan to be. This is ridiculous to even have this conversation. And if you don't know if you are a boy or a girl...make your own group...all this does is, to me and many others, is take away the respect and credibility of BSA and EARNED Eagle rank. Hoping OUR BOYS EARN it while it still has some respect attached. Sure I ticked a few folks off, but TOUGH!
    Suck it up buttercup!
    Support your local Scouts!
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,385 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    unbeknownst to me, my wife sent an email to the Girl Scouts asking if her son can join the Girl Scouts. Here is the reply:

    Subject: Boys Joining Girl Scouts-Case # 01844395 [ ref:_00DG0leqU._5000f1EBxYp:ref ]
    Thank you for writing with your question. No, Girl Scouts of the USA has been an all-girl organization since its inception in 1912, with no plans to change who can participate.

    Research shows that girls benefit most from a program designed specifically for them and delivered in an all-girl setting.

    Boys have unique needs and interests as well, which are best addressed by an organization structured to meet their specific needs.


    Sincerely,
    Lauren

    GSUSA Information & Referral Customer Care
    Girl Scouts of the USA
    420 Fifth Avenue
    New York, NY 10018



    Which I find hilarious.

    Whoa!
    Get they self to thy wife's email account pronto!

    "Dear Lauren,
    I understand your concerns, however, my son identifies as a girl. Boy Scouts I'm afraid isn't for him. "
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,000 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Whoa!
    Get they self to thy wife's email account pronto!

    "Dear Lauren,
    I understand your concerns, however, my son identifies as a girl. Boy Scouts I'm afraid isn't for her. "

    FIFY. Hit 'em with their own nonsense!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    My response to one of our current "leaders" (who also promotes scouts for equality (sorry, if yo have "for equality" in your name, you don't want equality, you want special treatment)).

    Well, I'm now "just a dad" after 6 years as a leader, and I can't make sense of this nonsense; BOY= BOY Scouts. GIRL= Girl Scouts. If people think that BOY SCOUTS is so much better, maybe GIRL Scouts should work on their program instead of trying to make a new "social experiment". Are there "boys and girls" restrooms...and not just for staff? Oh, "no"...more money...follow the money trail. I am not politically correct and do not plan to be. This is ridiculous to even have this conversation. And if you don't know if you are a boy or a girl...make your own group...all this does is, to me and many others, is take away the respect and credibility of BSA and EARNED Eagle rank. Hoping my BOYS EARN it while it still has some respect attached. Sure I ticked a few folks off, but TOUGH!
    Support your local Scouts!
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,441 Senior Member
    As Is I said earlier in the thread, this is not about equality, it's about left-wing activism to disrupt the traditional way of doing things.
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,286 Senior Member
    Its about having a system that works and whiners who wont do the work to make what they have work being insistent on being allowed to co-opt the system that does work, while dumbing it down so that they dont have to put the effort into what they have.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,000 Senior Member
    Its about having a system that works and whiners who wont do the work to make what they have work being insistent on being allowed to co-opt the system that does work, while dumbing it down so that they dont have to put the effort into what they have.

    WORD.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,195 Senior Member
    Well, the BSA decided that they are going to start 'separate but equal' programs for girls:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scouts-will-admit-girls-allow-them-earn-eagle-scout-n809836

    Don't let anyone tell you different. This is about money. They need more scouts to pay the bills, and instead of focusing on getting more boys in the program, they are playing off the easily offended helicopter moms that bring their girls to the scout meetings anyway and do nothing to help. Now they can pay money to BSA and 'strike a blow for equality!'


    Meh. My kid is already better with knives, camping, guns, knots and all than almost anyone in his age group. If he wants to start fading out of scouts, I aint gonna stop him.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,286 Senior Member
    It sucks.

    Knots, knives and camping are only the tool to teach what is (was) important. Leadership, the ability to pass on information, and how to deal with a group of individuals with mixed peers, superiors, and subordinates, how to take action to get done what needs to be done before you do what you want to. Learning to budget time and $$. Being self sufficient. Scouting isnt about camping. Camping and outdoor activities are just the vehicle.

    Like I posted the first time. They have lost membership (dollars) because of their kissing lefty butts. Now the unintended consequences are coming back to bite them in the wallet. All the leftys wanted to be in, so the Scout Corp ruled then allowed to be in. The leftys won, then didnt join at the rate the core members left. Now to fill the ranks (coffers) Scout Corp will not rescind its decision and rebuild, but keep going down the path of destruction and do away with all standards in the false hope that it will attract anyone willing to pay.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,441 Senior Member
    In today's Orlando Slantinel there was an article that talked about allowing girls into the Cub Scouts, and there is a plan by the BSA to implement it. Looks like the entire system is changing.
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 31,169 Senior Member
    Ha............next we will see Boy Scout Cookies fer sale in front of Publix.

    World is Topsy-Turvy.................there is a difference between boys and girls and any damn fool should be able to figure that out.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,077 Senior Member
    I'm glad my son and I are out of it. In the small town we lived in, I don't know if allowing girls in would go over. But, you never know. All it takes is for one person to make a big fuss, and everyone else has to accept it.

    If this isn't a case of the tail wagging the dog, then I don't know what is.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • dlddld Member Posts: 324 Member
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,195 Senior Member
    22448596_1731474246887483_9173267908931948131_n-333108.JPG
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,069 Senior Member
    My Eagle Scout warrant was signed by Richard Nixon. I thought that was a low point.

    Little did I know.......

    Orville Reddenbachers for me from now on. The BSA has slid down to the United Way as far as my donating $ goes.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,385 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    22448596_1731474246887483_9173267908931948131_n-333108.JPG

    That's wrong and HILARIOUS.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,202 Senior Member
    As Is I said earlier in the thread, this is not about equality, it's about left-wing activism to disrupt the traditional way of doing things.

    For the record, I'm just throwing this out there as food for thought. MMD, that was my thought at first as well.

    Until I started talking to some folks involved. Here's what they had to say:

    The Girl Scouts are crap. They are no more than a glorified cookie company. Their "campouts" are simply backyard bbq's.

    The GSA was approached a few years ago by the BSA with an offer to help them (GSA) implement training and skills that the BSA used. The GSA leaders not only refused, they did so with much heat and venom. So, it's just sell their cookies and leave all the knot tying, camping, woodcraft, etc. to the boys.

    The parents pushing this the hardest are the furthest thing from liberal activists trying to bring down yet another patriarchal institution that is the BSA. They actually want their girls to learn these valuable skills, same as the boys. They did try to work within the system at first by reforming their own association. It didn't work. The boys just do it better.

    Again, I don't know much about the GSA, I'm just relaying what I've been told. I was a Boy Scout for a couple years and we had two den mothers. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and wish my dad had pushed me to keep up with it. Having a girl in the troop wouldn't have changed anything to me, not at that age.

    If all the above is true, then I'm all for it. If the GSA really is that toxic and useless, then let it die. There's no reason these girls shouldn't be allowed to learn the lessons taught in the Boy Scouts. Sure, the fathers can teach them, but then again, so could they teach their boys. The BSA is (was, dunno anymore) a great institution and I'm sure it can accommodate girls just fine. From what I hear, Canada has been doing it since 1998.

    Again, just food for thought.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,069 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    For the record, I'm just throwing this out there as food for thought. MMD, that was my thought at first as well.

    Until I started talking to some folks involved. Here's what they had to say:

    The Girl Scouts are crap. They are no more than a glorified cookie company. Their "campouts" are simply backyard bbq's.

    The GSA was approached a few years ago by the BSA with an offer to help them (GSA) implement training and skills that the BSA used. The GSA leaders not only refused, they did so with much heat and venom. So, it's just sell their cookies and leave all the knot tying, camping, woodcraft, etc. to the boys.

    The parents pushing this the hardest are the furthest thing from liberal activists trying to bring down yet another patriarchal institution that is the BSA. They actually want their girls to learn these valuable skills, same as the boys. They did try to work within the system at first by reforming their own association. It didn't work. The boys just do it better.

    Again, I don't know much about the GSA, I'm just relaying what I've been told. I was a Boy Scout for a couple years and we had two den mothers. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and wish my dad had pushed me to keep up with it. Having a girl in the troop wouldn't have changed anything to me, not at that age.

    If all the above is true, then I'm all for it. If the GSA really is that toxic and useless, then let it die. There's no reason these girls shouldn't be allowed to learn the lessons taught in the Boy Scouts. Sure, the fathers can teach them, but then again, so could they teach their boys. The BSA is (was, dunno anymore) a great institution and I'm sure it can accommodate girls just fine. From what I hear, Canada has been doing it since 1998.

    Again, just food for thought.

    Can't argue with that.

    But, if the GSA is crap and going to die, let it. But don't take the BSA down with it. That's a no win/no win.

    Mike

    Otoh...Game-Boy and disinterested parents have done more to eradicate the BSA than a handful of girls could ever do. Just food for thought.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,202 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Otoh...Game-Boy and disinterested parents have done more to eradicate the BSA than a handful of girls could ever do. Just food for thought.

    I certainly agree.

    I don't get the impression that those I spoke with are interested in dismantling anything, they just want the opportunity for their girls.

    However, I have no idea if these are the majority/minority, whatever. I'm also not saying there are NO leftists hell bent on destroying this "boy's club". I don't know who the majority is, I just think it's not quite as simple as an attack on patriarchy.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,000 Senior Member
    What about Camp Fire Girls?

    I know less than the square root of eff all about them - do they even exist anymore? And what are/were they all about?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,764 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    What about Camp Fire Girls?

    I know less than the square root of eff all about them - do they even exist anymore? And what are/were they all about?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,385 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    I certainly agree.

    I don't get the impression that those I spoke with are interested in dismantling anything, they just want the opportunity for their girls.

    However, I have no idea if these are the majority/minority, whatever. I'm also not saying there are NO leftists hell bent on destroying this "boy's club". I don't know who the majority is, I just think it's not quite as simple as an attack on patriarchy.
    If they want such an oppurtunity, they should either stomp their feet till the GSA gets the hint, or another group fits their needs. Forcing the BSA to allow dames ain't the way to go.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee

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