What the hell another collision with a US warship?

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Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,024 Senior Member
    They're currently trying to figure out how to attach training wheels to all our destroyers!
    :drool:
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,764 Senior Member
    Did you see the forefoot on that tanker? No wonder it opened that Destroyer up like a (no pun intended) tin can. What a mess...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,939 Senior Member
    To tell the truth, John McCain the Senator has strayed off course since he's been in office. The ship is no different I see.

    Like was said, this ship is not named for Little Johnny but his father and grand father who were both celebrated Admirals. John McCain the Senator was only a captain in the Navy, not an admiral.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,904 Senior Member
    I'm thinking maybe we need to send all of the missile geeks back to school to learn how to drive a ship. It wouldn't be the first time that the Navy has become so enamored with their high tech that they neglected basics. I'm thinking here about when they left the guns out of the F-4 because their missiles were so awesome, then sent them out to dogfight with MIGs. They ended up having to install guns and create the Top Gun schools to tune up their pilots.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,260 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I'm thinking maybe we need to send all of the missile geeks back to school to learn how to drive a ship.

    Reminds me of that "The Obstinate Lighthouse".


    But we know that's not true, right?

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,194 Senior Member
    Something stinks with this story!! How can one of the most advanced war ships in the world be broadsided by a 600 ft tanker. I know there is a radar
    recording of transponders we will never see
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,939 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    Capt needs to be on the bridge in and around the Strait of Malacca

    This for sure and what JBP Ohio said are both spot on.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,602 Senior Member
    Well, this accident as well as the Fitzgerald's collision, the USS Lake Champlain's collision, and the grounding of the USS Antietam (all in 2017) have cost Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin, 7th Fleet CINC, his job.

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/navy-relieve-commander-seventh-fleet-following-string-accidents-031706069--abc-news-topstories.html
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,904 Senior Member
    That's the way the Navy used to work. Leadership descends from the top down.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,370 Senior Member
    Well, this accident as well as the Fitzgerald's collision, the USS Lake Champlain's collision, and the grounding of the USS Antietam (all in 2017) have cost Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin, 7th Fleet CINC, his job.

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/navy-relieve-commander-seventh-fleet-following-string-accidents-031706069--abc-news-topstories.html

    Should have happened after the second!
    I still can't understand this. So the first incident happens. You analyze the issue, make changes in procedure etc. everyone should be on high alert. Nope. It keeps happening. You'd THINK they'd figure something out.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,904 Senior Member
    I can't help wanting to blame texting.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,275 Senior Member
    Looking at the damage to the ship, the destroyer was crossing right to left in front of the tanker. Looks like perpendicular hit to me. 'Rules of the road' for navigation can and will find both at fault, with the most fault falling on the destroyer. They are small, nimble, and can easily outmaneuver a slow **** tanker. And there's at least 12 people on the bridge of that destroyer, and ONE OF THEM would have their face buried in the short range nav radar screen. And there are lookouts on port and starboard bridge wings, and they now have night vision to help them see at night. I just don't see how they could let that collision happen if they were paying half **** attention to their jobs. The Captain is responsible for his ship even if he's snoozing in his underway quarters off the bridge, and he SHOULD have been on the bridge going into a heavy traffic area. The Captain will most likely get put on shore duty and be cashiered out eventually due to this, and the rest of the bridge crew, officers and enlisted should consider their careers over, too.
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,517 Senior Member
    Obama packed the Pentagon with social justice warriors - progressive-agenda political reliability being the primary concern for selection. I would be suspect of any flag officer promoted during the last administration - that fact alone would be the default justification for replacing most of them.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,024 Senior Member
    Chris, how many accidental dumps of a fire suppression system would it take before you were in the unemployment line? Even if nobody got killed, I doubt if your company would wait for the third or fourth mishap before handing you some walking papers. My bosses in the warranty investigation business love my work, but all it would take would be one big screwup for them to say "Sayonara"!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,260 Senior Member
    It is not all bad news;

    "Captain Receives Navy Cross After Successfully Finishing Entire Deployment"

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/11/captain-navy-cross-for-finishing-deployment/

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,438 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    It is not all bad news;

    "Captain Receives Navy Cross After Successfully Finishing Entire Deployment"

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/11/captain-navy-cross-for-finishing-deployment/

    AAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!!

    :love:
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,260 Senior Member
    AAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!!

    :love:

    No?

    What a day for disappointments.

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,370 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Chris, how many accidental dumps of a fire suppression system would it take before you were in the unemployment line? Even if nobody got killed, I doubt if your company would wait for the third or fourth mishap before handing you some walking papers. My bosses in the warranty investigation business love my work, but all it would take would be one big screwup for them to say "Sayonara"!
    Jerry
    Not many, depending on the situation. They like me, but.....one clean agent (think halon but different chemical )system I service would cost us probably 20 thousand just for chemical refills. Forgetting of course customer downtime. One would be a bad deal, followed (after the cooking off period ) by being "that guy" and the butt of jokes. Twice wouldn't be so pretty.
    I have had one incident that while technically wasn't my fault, it was my fault because I was the more experienced of the two us us. That one was "highly visible". But it wasn't blatant, and it was easy to see how it happened, no one got hurt, damage was limited, etc. But.....I'm well known. At a corporate level. :tooth:
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • AxeAxe Member Posts: 356 Member
    A culmination of many problems I guess. Listening to FOX news this morning, a former commander from the USS Cole? was saying that the used to go to 16 weeks of AIT training in seamanship, and now they get a dvd to bring onboard their assigned ship and learn on the job. He was also saying a lot of ships went from three lookout's to one, many having multiple tours causing burnout. I guess we will learn soon enough what caused the problem.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,024 Senior Member
    Keel-hauling a few Admirals would be a good beginning!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,275 Senior Member
    Axe wrote: »
    A culmination of many problems I guess. Listening to FOX news this morning, a former commander from the USS Cole? was saying that the used to go to 16 weeks of AIT training in seamanship, and now they get a dvd to bring onboard their assigned ship and learn on the job. He was also saying a lot of ships went from three lookout's to one, many having multiple tours causing burnout. I guess we will learn soon enough what caused the problem.

    Don't know what the training for officers was back when I was in the Navy in the early 1970s. I DO KNOW that bridge wing lookouts and aft watch lookout on the fantail were OJT for us enlisted sailors. And the OJT was standing watches for 3 months with an experienced lookout at those stations. These watches were in addition to our assigned duties. Ship I was on was chronically and at times dangerously undermanned due to the end of the draft. First two Captains on the ship were WWII tin can experience, one in the Pacific and one in the Atlantic and Med. The last one was sort of a mystery.

    If that former commander was correct as to there being only one lookout, then that is most likely from the downsizing of crews aboard ships now. They don't crew them like they used to. And I'd bet they don't train, and cross train in other rates like we did, either.
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,260 Senior Member
    Now we see you;

    "After Deadly Collisions Navy will Broadcast Warship Locations in High Traffic Areas"

    https://news.usni.org/2017/09/19/deadly-collisions-navy-will-broadcast-warship-locations-high-traffic-areas
    September 19, 2017

    “Sir, I have the same questions,” Richardson responded. “It’s very hard to understand with the sophisticated systems onboard these warships that we let a ship get in that close to the point of collision.”

    “Don’t we have sailors on the bridge with binoculars anymore?” King asked.

    “We do,” Richardson said. “It’s required to have lookouts and we have lookouts on the bridge.”

    Part of the problem isn’t the Navy’s ability to see who else is out there, Richardson said, but everyone else’s ability to spot Navy ships.

    “Is there some technology that they couldn’t see us?” King asked. “Are we using a stealth technology?................................”

    Now we don't?

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,705 Senior Member
    Good article but the NAVY still not explaining how they allowed the collisions to happen. SOMEONE on OUR boat should have seen the other boat comics...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,260 Senior Member
    Verdicts are in and no bread and water.

    "Top officers of USS John McCain fired for ‘poor judgment’"

    https://nypost.com/2017/10/10/top-officers-of-uss-john-mccain-fired-for-poor-judgement/





    An incognito USN captain.

    "The Real Reason the US Navy Keeps Hitting Merchant Vessels"

    https://www.sofmag.com/the-real-reason-the-us-navy-keeps-hitting-merchant-vessels/

    "I am willing to bet that those ships involved in incidents with merchants had all their sexual orientation, transgender training, and environmental training all completed at the expense of the safety and operational training.

    If you put the emphasis on social issues, you get a social force. If you put it on operational issues, you get an operational force"

    cjp wrote: »..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »...But seriously Shush....

    Big Chief wrote: ».........walking around with a greasy butt ain't no fun, though!

     


     

  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,705 Senior Member
    And no one will ever tell us what the hell happened...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • hawk18hawk18 Senior Member Posts: 676 Senior Member
    "If you put the emphasis on social issues, you get a social force. If you put it on operational issues, you get an operational force"

    Imagine that.

    Hawk
  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,196 Senior Member
    Well this is more than I knew yesterday.

    What a cluster clutch. This is what I got:

    I was never in the Navy so pardon my ignorance but it looks like the driver was having a hard time with steering AND engines.

    Commander orders to split duties so engines controlled at other console.

    Somehow ALL controls shifted to other console. Also, now instead of both engines being controlled by one control, only one now controlled.

    So first guy thinks he's got the wheel but no one does. Rudder was turned to account for tide but now goes neutral. Second guy thinks he's controlling both engines but only one.

    If it weren't for the fact that good people died it would be a comedy of errors.

    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/uss-mccain-collision-ultimately-caused-by-ui-confusion/
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,275 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    Now we see you;

    "After Deadly Collisions Navy will Broadcast Warship Locations in High Traffic Areas"

    https://news.usni.org/2017/09/19/deadly-collisions-navy-will-broadcast-warship-locations-high-traffic-areas
    September 19, 2017

    “Sir, I have the same questions,” Richardson responded. “It’s very hard to understand with the sophisticated systems onboard these warships that we let a ship get in that close to the point of collision.”

    “Don’t we have sailors on the bridge with binoculars anymore?” King asked.

    “We do,” Richardson said. “It’s required to have lookouts and we have lookouts on the bridge.”

    Part of the problem isn’t the Navy’s ability to see who else is out there, Richardson said, but everyone else’s ability to spot Navy ships.

    “Is there some technology that they couldn’t see us?” King asked. “Are we using a stealth technology?................................”

    Now we don't?

    Danged Romulan cloaking device! :cuss::cuss::cuss::tooth:
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



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