Self defense without a gun
alphasigmookie
Senior MemberPosts: 7,854 Senior Member
What are people's thoughts on self defense without a gun? I know some of us are lucky enough to live places where we can always carry a gun. Others quite often find ourselves in places where we can't.
I'm looking for thoughts on tools, but also training. For example I often carry a knife, but realize that while I train with my firearms quite frequently, I have zero training in how to use a knife in self defense. I also have limited training or practice in any kind of hand to hand combat. There are obviously a wide range of martial arts training/classes available. Thoughts?
I'm looking for thoughts on tools, but also training. For example I often carry a knife, but realize that while I train with my firearms quite frequently, I have zero training in how to use a knife in self defense. I also have limited training or practice in any kind of hand to hand combat. There are obviously a wide range of martial arts training/classes available. Thoughts?
"Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
-DoctorWho
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Replies
A knife may or may not work out depending.
The spray could allow time for escape if deployed successfully, but also may not work out.
Fact is, there really isn't any good way to fight unarmed unless you're trained in a discipline. A cane could possibly work.
With a 1911 and a 30-06
They and I also practice knife throwing. I carry my usual pocket knife along with a thrower or 3 in a pocketed sheath. Granted, can't get into gvm't buildings / thru metal detectors with these items.
Is mace/pepper spray allowed in gvm't buildings?
In my truck and car there is a baseball bat.
We hike a lot, so I am often in possession of a walking stick.
Buy a copy and study the book Gray's Anatomy (below) cover to cover. Then think of everyday things you can carry with you that will allow you to damage the juicy bits and if you do have a knife it will show you all the good targets because unlike the TV shows, stabbing someone in the belly does NOT result in immediate incapacitation and death. You have to cut/puncture things that bleed fast or hold things together, or bend things in directions in which they don't.
Pens are huge and they don't need to be the "tactical" variety. You can put someone down FAST with a Bic pen. A small metal ruler can be devastating so can a metal nail file, and you can ruin someones day with a short length of 1.5mm parachord. Also, most folks get killed within steps of stuff they could have successfully used to defend themselves. Unless I'm being attacked by a well trained person, if they have a knife and I have a chair next to me they are in trouble. A few weeks of Krav Maga training will set you up to be able to defend yourself agains 99% of the folks that might come after you. Even your belt can be a devastating weapon with a little thought put into it.
Pens, pencils, books and metal bookends, laptop, my cigar lighter (torch), desk tools like scissors and letter openers, metal based lamps and the Fender Stratocaster standing in my office are all formidable tools of SD within my reach right here in my home office... Or I could just use the 1911 I use as a paperweight...
Basically your head even before a gun is the best thing in self defense ...
- George Orwell
Close up, it's all about distraction, pivot points, balance....and then run.
Mike
KSU Firefighter
My people knife is carried so that when drawn the blade is coming out the bottom of my fist. It's much more versatile as far as being able to cut. A thrust up under an attackers arm yields access to some good arteries, and it's a "natural" movement with the knife out of the bottom of your hand. It's also easy to drive it into a leg or whatever else you can get if someone has you grabbed from behind. Not an easy task if the knife is held "conventionally."
Achilles' tendons, behind the knee, crook of the elbow, many places to make people stop what they are doing, without giving them an option.
Far as mace goes, you may get lucky and change someone's attitude. Or, you may mace yourself. Or, they may take that can of mace and shove it in your ass. One could say they may take the knife from you and do the same, but I'll take my chances.
Zee
I do not care for chemical weapons because they don't work on everyone.....
Another option is a unit that Taser came out with....designed for you to deploy and drop while you unass the AO....takes the bad guy on a full 30 second ride.....or you could use that time to kick the crap out of the offender while he flops around like a fish out of water....
Jerry
ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
Actually, stabbing is by far the most efficient movement with a knife. That's why knives like the Fairburn-Sykes knife are designed to go deep. Slashing is seldom enough to do a whole lot more than superficial damage. Almost all deaths by knifes are due to stabbing...not all, but most all. Slashing scares hell out of people, I guess, but if you want a permanent solution is to "go deep."
I don't carry a SD knife but have one. You have to surrender your knife in government buildings, and outside, I'd as soon carry a pistol.
With a 1911 and a 30-06
Funny but true-- we were at a family gathering and someone asked if anyone had a knife. The next sound was 4 Kershaws snapping open-- me, the wife, and both kids.
Last month, my 15 year old walked up to the library. She comes home with her new book, lifted up her sweater and unclipped her Kershaw from her skirt, and set it on the counter for me to sharpen.
Can't carry a knife? Improvise. I tell my kids to always have a plan to kill someone. It sounds cynical but helps to heighten your awareness. EVERYTHING is a weapon. Use it.
Obviously, if you can run or avoid trouble in the first place-- by all means do so. But if you have to fight, you have to fight.
Weeeeeeeeelllllllllll.........most folks don’t know how to use a knife.
And be fast, violent, and decisive.
In a SD situation I'm not looking to kill anyone...I'm looking to make them stop what they're doing....and opening up some large gaping wounds accomplishes that..either by shock value or exsanguination..which is why I carry a knife designed to slash and not a dagger....
One on one is the same. A cup of coffee thrown in a bad guys face them the mug broken across his jaw will slow them down quick. A sharp small pocket knife legal almost everywhere can slash the important parts easily. It doesn't need to be a Rambo knife to be deadly or incapacitating.
My old mentors line..." Cut 'em wide, deep and continuous"
Jam (stab)a knife in my arm, I'll continue to beat your ass. Slice tendons and I'll stop immediately. Slice an artery and I'll stop in short order.
Zee
-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
Slice in the arm, same thing. You don't stab in the arm, you stab in the chest or in the kidneys. Most stabbing victims are stabbed multiple times. You can look up the stats on that if you want. That's why true combat knives are designed for stabbing: Gerber #1, F-S, the ones issued by the elite WW 2 unit (think it was Canadian-American Mountain Division) that was sharp and pointy and had a serrated thumbprint near the guard. They're very collectible today and so are the F-S. The only F-S I saw had a nickel plated blade for use in salt-water areas.
Stabbing is also much more efficient from a mechanical view. It takes less motion to stab than it does to slice since the distance is much shorter. And penetration is deeper. Stabbing is also much more difficult to defend against...think about it.
These combat knives aren't very practical for anything but stabbing. They're not general purpose knives like the K-Bar, which is superior for everyday use and can be used for combat. When I was in VN, I took two knives with me, a Gerber #1 and a Marbles, for everyday use. I broke the guard on the Gerber throwing it into a stump and lost the Marbles. Later got a K-Bar when it was evident I wouldn't be stabbing anyone.
It takes about two inches of penetration between a rib to reach the heart. Then it's lights out. You can't slice two inches through ribs unless you've got a sword.
With a 1911 and a 30-06
That's awesome, if you're in a position to specifically target the heart or kidneys. It's also awesome if you can get between the ribs, perfectly. There's plenty of large targets available that will cause a person to simply not be able to move, or bleed out in not much more time than if the heart was punctured.
Zee
Suffice it it to say that, in many of your concepts, you are scientifically wrong.
And most people die by stabbing because most people think they need to stab someone to kill them. Granted, this is about self defense and killing is not really the purpose, but if done right, cutting is very effective in stopping the threat.
Very little conceptual training aspects which that particular knife. Really. It all boiled down to just punch the assailant with a few key target points in mind. And, the other aspect was.........to punch a whole hell of a lot of times.
Quite inefficient if you ask me. Effective? Well, so is shooting someone 20 times.
I can accomplish the same goal of stopping the threat with relatively few cuts to presented target points. And I ain’t picky. If you present it, I’ll cut it. And you won’t like the results. I promise. If you’re not bleeding out and unconscious or dead relatively quickly, you will be rendered mostly ineffective if you can’t stand, walk, move your arms, hold your throat, or retain your guts.
My goal is not to kill. My goal is to stop the threat. I can do that in 1 or two cuts as opposed to multiple stabs. But hey, I ain’t opposed to stabbing as well. It’s just not as effective/efficient with most comfortably concealable or daily carried knives.
Ultimately, stabbing is easy in concept but difficult in effective practices. Meaning, you have to do it a LOT of times.
I have seen the effectiveness of both methods first hand. I’m here to tell you, cutting scares Hell out of me.