Self defense without a gun

13

Replies

  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 5,895 Senior Member
    Anything can be a weapon. A Yeti cup would make a passable bludgeon. Your mindset is going to be most important, I am fully prepared to rip open a throat with my teeth. I would rather use my 12” pump pliers or a knife or gun but my first rule is “I go home alive.”

    Just be creative and violent.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,071 Senior Member
    What he said.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,639 Senior Member
    I've always thought fence pliers would make a dandy expedient weapon.......
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 5,895 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    I've always thought fence pliers would make a dandy expedient weapon.......

    I carry 12” pump pliers every day at work. They make an ok hammer, should be even better on squishy bits or joints.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,071 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    I've always thought fence pliers would make a dandy expedient weapon.......

    Reminds me of that scene in Stir Crazy where the little cabbie grabbed that big dude by the balls with a pair of pliers.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,630 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    And that stab to the heart is not immediately fatal.....I've seen some remarkably active (and aggressive) folks that have been stabbed in the heart and didn't even know it....
    Michael Platt was shot in the heart with a .38 Special and ran around for two minutes shooting FBI agents during the Infamous Miami shootout. I happened to be just a few blocks away.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,617 Senior Member
    Finding a practical martial art, not a competitive one, would be a good first step. That will give you fair grounding in how to damage a human body whether you have tools or not. Once you have that knowledge, it's amazing how you start to view everyday objects as things you can defend yourself with.

    Anatomy. . .worth studying regardless. The Body Worlds museum exhibits are some of the best lessons on how to address a three-dimensional target you could ever hope for. Lots of first aid benefits too, should you ever be on the receiving end.

    A knife is something that you should have on you at all times you legally can. Not even so much as a weapon, just that it's a damn useful tool that can ALSO be used to defend yourself. With that in mind, it's worth shopping for the box opener that can also be used for making Filet O' Felon.

    My own preferences:

    1. Non-serrated kept sharp is preferable to serrated. Half-serrated doesn't really give you enough of either.

    2. Manual one-hand opening. I like the Spyderco thumb holes, and have lately been carrying a Benchmade Griptilian with a sheepsfoot point that has both the hole and an Axis lock that allows opening by pulling the lock and flicking. I DO NOT like spring-assisted openers, as I seem to nearly cut myself every time I try one.

    3. 3-4 inch blades are practical to the task - large enough for most big knife jobs, but not so much as to be stupid-huge, and usually legal.

    4. Not a fan of finger grooves on the grip. I've trained to hold them both like a chef's knife and an icepick. Grooves just get in my way of being able to switch.

    5. Pocket clips. Good for keeping the knife quickly accessible in a constant location, but. . .(heavy sigh). . .I really liked the ones on the older Spyderco Enduras that were molded as part of the plastic handle. Presumably, they discontinued those because a lot of people snapped them off, but I never had that problem. The metal clips that screw on to most of the new knives - I snapped two of Spyderco's and have lost a couple Benchmades because they bent out slightly and lost their grip. Periodically removing, re-bending, and re-installing is a fact of life for me.

    Like Zee, I'll be looking to cut more than stab - the goal being to incapacitate with blood loss, limbs that don't function, and the sheer psychological impact that can go with a multi-inch fissure across whatever valuable parcels of meat that have gone unblemished to that point in your adversary's life. Stabs certainly aren't off the table, but they have to be more selectively placed to rapidly make your problem go away.

    Some curvature to the edge is desirable because on a cut, that focuses the power of your swing onto a smaller piece of steel. A kukri is the extreme example of this - obviously not a pocket knife, but looking at one will get your brain in the right place. Too much curve (dedicated skinning knife) takes away from ability to stab. Knives that taper down to a long, needle-like point are just asking to get snapped off. Stuff that maintains full blade thickness almost to the point will hold up a lot better - the Japanese katana/tanto style being the most obvious examples of this. Tantos have much to recommend them purely as a fighting style, and are somewhat easier to sharpen because of the two separate and distinct edges, but the reinforced armor-piercing point is just a little too thick for delicate work, which I why I ended up with the sheepsfoot as a compromise between that and the drop point.

    Finally, a hollow grind on the blade is a nice feature. A flat-ground blade looks like a simple V in cross-section, where a hollow-grind looks more like the blade was shaped with a large-diameter wheel. This will reduce the amount of resistance on a cut and get you deeper toward the Tootsie Roll center with less effort.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,128 Senior Member
    Anything can be a weapon. A Yeti cup would make a passable bludgeon. Your mindset is going to be most important, I am fully prepared to rip open a throat with my teeth. I would rather use my 12” pump pliers or a knife or gun but my first rule is “I go home alive.”

    Just be creative and violent.

    :that:

    Reminds me of this scene:


    Knife fighting:

    While slashing has more to offer and would be my preferred choice let's also consider that it's not an option for some. ..... How? Why not?

    Limited mobility. That's why a gun is often the first choice. I get that. For those that don't suffer from this consider yourselves lucky. You have more options.

    To stab or slash....Depends. Don't like that answer, too bad. A lot will depend on your own abilities. How's the saying go, "Speak for yourself." If you have the ability/mobility aka athleticism then learn knife fighting techniques. Take a class.

    Here's an example of knife fighting used in the movie, The Hunted.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSKCIY7TmSA

    If you suffer from limited mobility either from age or injury (shoulder injuries) but you're not completely out of the game then the economy of motion afforded by stabbing techniques might serve you better. They are simply, easy to remember and don't require a great deal of practice to be moderately effective. It's better than just pleading for your life if you can't run.

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned stun devices. (not just Tasers)

    https://www.defensedevices.com/rattan-sword-cane.html

    Now ships to NJ. :applause:
    "Facts are stubborn things and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence" — John Adams
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,074 Senior Member
    One thing that I have been carrying when I have to go into a 'secure area' (airports, courtrooms, etc...) where you cant even take a worthwhile blade is this:

    https://olightworld.com/led-flashlights/safety-and-self-defense/olight-m2r-warrior

    up to 1500 lumens with a hell of a throw, and just small enough for EDC. It is pretty much impossible to keep your eyes open when hit with that beam. Plus, it can be a pretty handy impact weapon.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,415 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    And that stab to the heart is not immediately fatal.....I've seen some remarkably active (and aggressive) folks that have been stabbed in the heart and didn't even know it....

    A stab to the heart is very much preferable to a slash to the arm.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,083 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    A stab to the heart is very much preferable to a slash to the arm.

    Stab to heart and the guy still has a gun in his hand to shoot you.
    Slash to the arm to render it and the gun he is holding useless.

    Doesn't seem like rocket surgery to me.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,976 Senior Member
    Stiletto VS machete- - - - -I wonder who's going to win that game?
    :uhm:
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,083 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Stiletto VS machete- - - - -I wonder who's going to win that game?
    :uhm:
    Jerry

    Ask Zorba. He wears stilettos.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,071 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Stab to heart and the guy still has a gun in his hand to shoot you.
    Slash to the arm to render it and the gun he is holding useless.

    Doesn't seem like rocket surgery to me.

    You can’t make sense to the senseless.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,071 Senior Member
    Everything that I target (save the gut and thoracic cavity) is at the fulcrum of a functional and vital part of the body.

    Think if the tendons/ligaments/arteries at the following:

    wrist
    elbow
    arm pit
    neck juncture
    groin
    knee
    ankle

    Everything is at a fulcrum of sorts that attracts the eye and guides the blade. And every target houses something vital to the function and survival of the ass clown in question.

    I’ve had years and years to practice dismemberment on hundreds upon hundreds of animals to know that..........I can take your arm off in short order. Try kicking my ass without an arm while spewing life giving blood from your brachial artery. Or, standing with your Adductor Longus, Pubic Tubercle, and Femoral Artery severed with one cut.

    The list goes on.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????:uhm:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 16,822 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????:uhm:

    Slash across the throat
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,061 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I've said it before, but it bears repeating...don't bring a knife to a gun fight is good advice, but the reciprocal of that is also very, VERY true.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,250 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????:uhm:

    Stab behind the throat, push or pull out towards the front.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,639 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    You can’t make sense to the senseless.

    ....or the deliberately obtuse....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,071 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????:uhm:

    Fall on top of the dog. Using your body weight to pin him. The damage cause to you is by the dog locking on and thrusting back I a tugging motion.

    Pinning them lessens the damage and allows you you to utilize the blade to slit it’s throat or repeatedly stab it in the chest like a maniac. Which again, takes a lot more effort than cutting it in the right place.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 346 Member
    That James Bond only happens in the movies... (name that movie)
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Alright.
    The throat it is.

    Or have a gun.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Shoemaker SethShoemaker Seth Member Posts: 136 Member
    Smart and /or experienced people: I am in Guatemala and brought a Cold Steel Rajah 2 and a Gerber E-Z out. I also have a 1000 lumen Streamlight that clips in my pocket. Any opinions on my kit and specifically on the effectiveness of the Rajah 2. What might I add to keep me and my family safe besides vigilance and situational awareness. Thanks.
    Some threads I read for information. Others I read for entertainment value.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,925 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »


    She's a sweetheart! :love:

    To answer the question, I carry a knife, an assisted opening one. I worked in a slaughterhouse for a while, so I know where to cut to do the most good with least effort. And having had the fun of being on Shore Patrol, I got a lot of experience with a baton whether I wanted to or not, so going without a pistol, I'd also be taking along my cane. A Blackthorn cane head to the knee or head is good to calm down somebody and keep them beyond arms reach.
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,925 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Everything that I target (save the gut and thoracic cavity) is at the fulcrum of a functional and vital part of the body.

    Think if the tendons/ligaments/arteries at the following:

    wrist
    elbow
    arm pit
    neck juncture
    groin
    knee
    ankle

    Everything is at a fulcrum of sorts that attracts the eye and guides the blade. And every target houses something vital to the function and survival of the ass clown in question.

    I’ve had years and years to practice dismemberment on hundreds upon hundreds of animals to know that..........I can take your arm off in short order. Try kicking my ass without an arm while spewing life giving blood from your brachial artery. Or, standing with your Adductor Longus, Pubic Tubercle, and Femoral Artery severed with one cut.

    The list goes on.

    :agree: What he said and targets listed are where it's at. Major arteries and ligaments to disable quickly. And if you've got time to stab then you have more than enough time to slash HARD before pulling the blade out. A sucking chest wound instead of a knife blade width hole is better.
    As to ankle, that Achilles Tendon is the prime target if it is made available.
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,976 Senior Member
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,412 Senior Member
    Smart and /or experienced people: I am in Guatemala and brought a Cold Steel Rajah 2 and a Gerber E-Z out. I also have a 1000 lumen Streamlight that clips in my pocket. Any opinions on my kit and specifically on the effectiveness of the Rajah 2. What might I add to keep me and my family safe besides vigilance and situational awareness. Thanks.
    In that neck of the woods I would be thinking kidnappings to, so anything that will aid in escape. Handcuff keys, a length of chord that will saw through zip ties fast. Small easily hidden sharp things that will cut rope type stuff and ways of hiding close to body or in regular clothing items like belts and shoes. I know it sounds silly to some but a LOUD whistle attracts a lot of attention potential attackers usually do not want. Some rudimentary training in hand to hand combat for everyone in the family would be great to.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,976 Senior Member
    Steel-toed boots/shoes. It's hard to kidnap or rob anybody while holding onto one's family jewels with both hands and puking your guts up! While he's bent over double, apply a knee to his nose, vigorously and repeatedly.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,250 Senior Member
    Or toe, dont want to get to much blood on the pants.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

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