Sessions to go after legal pot

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  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,216 Senior Member
    The duration of a marijuana high is highly dependent on several factors, such as chronic (medicinal or recreational) use, polydrug use, etc. But generally, marijuana highs usually last for about 2 to 3 hours. A typical high from smoking marijuana lasts for about 2 hours; orally ingested THC or marijuana can trigger a high that lasts for longer: about 4-6 hours. However, psychomotor impairment can remain after the initial high effects have worn off.

    Careful, you are going to be attacked as illogical and unknowing because that doesnt fit the agenda...... dude.

    The second two links talk only about the high, not the impairment. AKA the effect on how one feels.

    From a link on your first link
    http://drug.addictionblog.org/how-long-does-marijuana-weed-pot-thc-stay-in-your-system/
    THC levels and habitual use

    People who smoke once per week will increase the level of THC in their bodies over time because THC has never been fully eliminated. For these people, the baseline THC levels rise based on metabolism and fat content in the body. Furthermore, people who smoke or eat marijuana 3-5 times a week, have both higher baseline levels of THC in their systems and longer half lives of THC. In other words, regular users of marijuana are continually drug effected. So regular users of marijuana must realize that THC is generally more detectable in their systems than in the bodies of periodic/episodic users of marijuana.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,911 Senior Member
    So if you're carrying you get charged with DUI, regardless of BAC greater than zero but less than .08%, which is the usual level of intoxication?

    It looks like that's what might happen, depending on the attitude of the cop on the scene, and the prosecutor who catches the case. Since the Tennessee legislature chose not to establish an acceptable BAC level while carrying, there's a huge gray area that's subject to interpretation on a case by case basis. It's very much like the "may issue" standard for carry permits that was once used to limit permits to the politicians' good buddies!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Do you realize that every link that you posted references detectability and not EFFECT! It's you that determined that any detectable amount means impairment. I don't smoke pot but I don't care if others do and if someone is going to present a case against it, I'd like to see it presented in a logical manner. You seem like you're foaming at the mouth with your opinion about pot.

    I think he could use a toke or 2..:jester:
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,289 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    It looks like that's what might happen, depending on the attitude of the cop on the scene, and the prosecutor who catches the case. Since the Tennessee legislature chose not to establish an acceptable BAC level while carrying, there's a huge gray area that's subject to interpretation on a case by case basis. It's very much like the "may issue" standard for carry permits that was once used to limit permits to the politicians' good buddies!
    Jerry

    Damn, thanks for the info. I didn't know that NC and TN were that strict. Not that I always drink and drive, but here in Florida I may ride MC's with friends and have a beer or two with lunch. I know they have a prohibition against carrying in a bar, but I'm not sure if there's something similar with regard to %BAC and carrying. I'll have to keep that in mind when I come up for the shoot and Johnson City, and my excursion to Maggie Valley for our yearly rally.
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Here's a quote from the local news today here at ground zero. "I haven't seen so many people get so excited about weed since I was a freshman in college.":roll::roll::roll:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,289 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    Here's a quote from the local news today here at ground zero. "I haven't seen so many people get so pissed-off about weed since I was a freshman in college.":roll::roll::roll:

    FIFY
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,216 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    I think he could use a toke or 2..:jester:

    You both realize that I differentiated into active AKA effecting and just detectable and explained that a few times. Maybe if you read it again it will sink in.

    .......

    Look, its real simple. To believe that THC in the bloodstream has no effect after the high because you dont feel high, you would have to agree that if a person downed a fifth on New years eve, when that person woke up after 6 hours, because he felt like crap and not happy and giddy like he did while drinking it, that the alcohol in his bloodstream had no longer has an effect on him.

    Feel free to pull up pro pot sites that state you case.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    FFLshooter wrote: »
    Just curious, if your job didn’t care, would you be able to smoke pot in the evening and still be a productive member of society?

    Yes. Always was when I did smoke. It's like anything else when done in moderation. It also NEVER made we want to go and score some crack or heroin.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    Booze and pot are two separate things. I can come home and drink 3 fingers of scotch and by 7AM it is ALL out of my system. Not so with pot, as a vape, or brownie, or smoked. It sticks with you.

    What would you call someone with a BAC of .08 at work? Drunk. I can be fully functional at the whatever oz makes you a legal drunk if I drink it the night before and get 6-7 hrs sleep. Do you think I should be operating a 6.5 ton truck with a BAC of .08? How .06, or .02? I can get s faced at night or over a weekend and be a .00 at work without drinking on the job.

    Pot stays with you longer, period. What do you call someone with TCH in his blood stream? Stoned. A one time user will carry it for a day, a habitual user will carry it for weeks.

    That is the difference. A person can take a drink and even get beyond the limit of intoxication and still be sober the next day. A pot user will not be sober.
    You both realize that I differentiated into active AKA effecting and just detectable and explained that a few times. Maybe if you read it again it will sink in.

    .......

    Look, its real simple. To believe that THC in the bloodstream has no effect after the high because you dont feel high, you would have to agree that if a person downed a fifth on New years eve, when that person woke up after 6 hours, because he felt like crap and not happy and giddy like he did while drinking it, that the alcohol in his bloodstream had no longer has an effect on him.

    Feel free to pull up pro pot sites that state you case.

    I am having more fun watching you go in circles....:silly:

    Moderation is key isn't it?

    I can assure you that smoking a joint vs. downing a bottle of whiskey in the evening will have dramatically different affects on you in the morning. A weed "hangover" does not even register on the charts compared to an alcohol one. Of course, I am not speaking in absolutes, just from mine and those that I know experiences.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 257 Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Yes. Always was when I did smoke. It's like anything else when done in moderation. It also NEVER made we want to go and score some crack or heroin.

    Amen to that.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    FFLshooter wrote: »
    Amen to that.

    A personal account. My wife actually would prefer that I could still smoke. She says she could never tell that I was "high" because I didn't act like the stereotype "stoner". I informed her that a huge portion of weed smokers were just like me. I tend to drink more (beer) when I can't smoke. I am not a problem drinker by any stretch, but she can always tell when I have. When I could smoke I very rarely drank any beer.

    I suppose it's because weed was medicinal/therapeutic for me. To me, weed should be scheduled the same as alcohol. Yes, it can have potential for abuse just like alcohol. But it's known medicinal and therapeutic properties put it a step ahead of alcohol in my eyes. People use alcohol mostly for fun/relaxation just like smokers use weed. Weed can go much further though. Never heard of a cancer patient using alcohol for medical reasons. It works fine for escaping though.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,523 Senior Member
    This...:agree:... don't hear much about "medicinal" alcohol....,on there other hand, the effects of medicinal cannabis are well documented....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    During prohibition, alcoholic spririts could be purchased at a pharmacy with a doctors prescription. The containers were actually labeled, for medicinal purposes.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    During prohibition, alcoholic spririts could be purchased at a pharmacy with a doctors prescription. The containers were actually labeled, for medicinal purposes.

    That was the "get-around" to prohibition. As Jayhawker stated, the medicinal effects of cannabis are well documented. I am not reefering to the "oh my back hurts" cases, but rather cancer, glaucoma...etc

    Most you'll find about alcohol is that 1 glass of wine a day MAY help you in the long run.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    That's agrees with what I saw about it. It was one of endless scams to circumvent the law.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,651 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    I am having more fun watching you go in circles....:silly:

    Moderation is key isn't it?

    I can assure you that smoking a joint vs. downing a bottle of whiskey in the evening will have dramatically different affects on you in the morning. A weed "hangover" does not even register on the charts compared to an alcohol one. Of course, I am not speaking in absolutes, just from mine and those that I know experiences.

    I'm still not really taking sides in the legalization debate yet, although I instinctively know that kids should not be using marijuana. I know what the effects are, firsthand, and I do believe that the short term effects of its recreational use are, in several ways, less harmful than alcohol. But, my personal opinion is that extended use of marijuana makes people less smart and less logical, and damages their ability to remember things, but I can't prove it.

    Regarding the back and forth here, I submit that the folks who are against it are backing their statements up with some science from a variety of sources, while the proponents are offering mostly opinions that appear to be based on their perceptions while under the influence. I think the pro marijuana advocates need to 'up' their game a little if they expect to convince people who don't use marijuana.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,791 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I'm still not really taking sides in the legalization debate yet, although I instinctively know that kids should not be using marijuana. I know what the effects are, firsthand, and I do believe that the short term effects of its recreational use are, in several ways, less harmful than alcohol. But, my personal opinion is that extended use of marijuana makes people less smart and less logical, and damages their ability to remember things, but I can't prove it.

    Regarding the back and forth here, I submit that the folks who are against it are backing their statements up with some science from a variety of sources, while the proponents are offering mostly opinions that appear to be based on their perceptions while under the influence. I think the pro marijuana advocates need to 'up' their game a little if they expect to convince people who don't use marijuana.
    Actually neither side has particularly much science behind thier arguments because the federal government has made it nearly impossible to do any form of medical studies involving pot for many decades.

    Here's a good science focused article on he history of prohibition and the science of marijuana.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-behind-the-dea-s-long-war-on-marijuana/

    From the article:

    "Researchers say this represents a classic catch-22, as the paucity of research is the direct result of a federal blockade on such research by the DEA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). “The reason we don’t have more data is because it’s quite difficult to study. The only legal source of cannabis is NIDA, which has a Congressional mandate to only study its harms,” Abrams says. Researchers also note that about two dozen countries including Israel, Canada and the Netherlands as well as several legalization states such as California and Colorado, have reams of scientific data on the safety and efficacy of smoked cannabis as well as other formulations."
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,651 Senior Member
    This is why I have been so wishy-washy on my stance for the last few decades. I don't really trust a lot of the data, and I definitely don't trust the perceptions of those who use it a lot. At the very least, it should be regulated by enhanced punishment for those who commit crimes or harm others while under the influence, and there should be heavy penalties for anyone who makes it available to minors.

    The states that are allowing it should provide some good statistics, but I don't trust them to not cook the books, for political advantage.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,216 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    I am having more fun watching you go in circles....:silly:

    Moderation is key isn't it?

    I can assure you that smoking a joint vs. downing a bottle of whiskey in the evening will have dramatically different affects on you in the morning. A weed "hangover" does not even register on the charts compared to an alcohol one. Of course, I am not speaking in absolutes, just from mine and those that I know experiences.

    And you keep confusing the high (how you feel) with being effected (gross motor function and mental acuteness). If I can handle a 6 pack of beer in 2 hours and look straight, or drink all night and am driving in a hangover mode the next morning, that doesnt mean I no longer have enough alcohol in my bloodstream to have an effect. There is no circle. If a person has a active chem in their blood, they are effected, period. Hangover, anecdotes, resistance means jack. Thats why you will get a blood test by the cops if you are suspected of being impaired. If THC (or booze) is in you blood, you are impaired. Booze has a accepted level of .02 of where impairment reaches the level of the law, TCH is 0. Per 5 links to pot friendly sites, TCH is in your blood stream for anywhere from a few hours, to days. Not my figures, not a anecdote.

    I dont care if you do it, but stop blowing smoke up peoples butts. Pot is not a innocuous wonder substance that causes no harm and leaves your system when you decide it does.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    Actually neither side has particularly much science behind thier arguments because the federal government has made it nearly impossible to do any form of medical studies involving pot for many decades.

    Here's a good science focused article on he history of prohibition and the science of marijuana.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-behind-the-dea-s-long-war-on-marijuana/

    From the article:

    "Researchers say this represents a classic catch-22, as the paucity of research is the direct result of a federal blockade on such research by the DEA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA). “The reason we don’t have more data is because it’s quite difficult to study. The only legal source of cannabis is NIDA, which has a Congressional mandate to only study its harms,” Abrams says. Researchers also note that about two dozen countries including Israel, Canada and the Netherlands as well as several legalization states such as California and Colorado, have reams of scientific data on the safety and efficacy of smoked cannabis as well as other formulations."

    Because it is scheduled (wrongly) as class 1 drug. Above such drugs as cocaine, meth and most painkillers. If it were to be rescheduled, as it should be, then the flood gates would open to many more studies.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,547 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Because it is scheduled (wrongly) as class 3 drug. Above such drugs as cocaine, meth and most painkillers. If it were to be rescheduled, as it should be, then the flood gates would open to many more studies.
    But there's not enough data to support rescheduling it...:confused:
    Overkill is underrated.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    This is why I have been so wishy-washy on my stance for the last few decades. I don't really trust a lot of the data, and I definitely don't trust the perceptions of those who use it a lot. At the very least, it should be regulated by enhanced punishment for those who commit crimes or harm others while under the influence, and there should be heavy penalties for anyone who makes it available to minors.

    The states that are allowing it should provide some good statistics, but I don't trust them to not cook the books, for political advantage.

    I agree 100%. Nowhere did I say that it should be a free for all. All of the "under the influence" rules that apply to alcohol should also apply to cannabis.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 257 Member
    And you keep confusing the high (how you feel) with being effected (gross motor function and mental acuteness). If I can handle a 6 pack of beer in 2 hours and look straight, or drink all night and am driving in a hangover mode the next morning, that doesnt mean I no longer have enough alcohol in my bloodstream to have an effect. There is no circle. If a person has a active chem in their blood, they are effected, period. Hangover, anecdotes, resistance means jack. Thats why you will get a blood test by the cops if you are suspected of being impaired. If THC (or booze) is in you blood, you are impaired. Booze has a accepted level of .02 of where impairment reaches the level of the law, TCH is 0. Per 5 links to pot friendly sites, TCH is in your blood stream for anywhere from a few hours, to days. Not my figures, not a anecdote.

    I dont care if you do it, but stop blowing smoke up peoples butts. Pot is not a innocuous wonder substance that causes no harm and leaves your system when you decide it does.
    And have you ever smoked pot to have a firsthand account?
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    But there's not enough data to support rescheduling it...:confused:

    The government ABC agencies won't allow data to be collected because it is a Sch. 1 drug.

    "Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:

    heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote"


    The government makes it nearly impossible to study these drugs for any potential benefits.

    I believe common sense should lead most people to think that marijuana is less harmful than cocaine and methamphetamine. Both of which are schedule 2.

    Edited the post you quoted above. Weed is schedule 1 with heroin, not 3. Had them backwards in my head. Probably from the weed I last smoked 5 years ago...:rotflmao::rotflmao:
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    And you keep confusing the high (how you feel) with being effected (gross motor function and mental acuteness). If I can handle a 6 pack of beer in 2 hours and look straight, or drink all night and am driving in a hangover mode the next morning, that doesnt mean I no longer have enough alcohol in my bloodstream to have an effect. There is no circle. If a person has a active chem in their blood, they are effected, period. Hangover, anecdotes, resistance means jack. Thats why you will get a blood test by the cops if you are suspected of being impaired. If THC (or booze) is in you blood, you are impaired. Booze has a accepted level of .02 of where impairment reaches the level of the law, TCH is 0. Per 5 links to pot friendly sites, TCH is in your blood stream for anywhere from a few hours, to days. Not my figures, not a anecdote.

    I dont care if you do it, but stop blowing smoke up peoples butts. Pot is not a innocuous wonder substance that causes no harm and leaves your system when you decide it does.

    That is not what you stated earlier on when comparing the two. At least you are now putting alcohol on the same playing field as cannabis...:applause::silly:

    As to your THC is 0...https://www.ghsa.org/state-laws/issues/drug%20impaired%20driving

    Not all states have a zero tolerance. Our great state of PA has a 1ng/ml limit since 2011.

    3rd bold...Where have I stated anything close to that? You have stated your opinion many times in this thread offering that because someone smokes 1 joint they are "high" for weeks. Many others saw it and "called you out". Which is why I only referenced urine testing, which is by far the most common form, to try to educate you a little. I am glad you decided to do your own research about things I have known for a long time (blood, saliva).

    By no means am I suggesting that you, or anybody, needs to embrace marijuana. But the "reefer madness" attitude simply does not apply.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,448 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    The government ABC agencies won't allow data to be collected because it is a Sch. 1 drug.

    "Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:

    heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote"


    The government makes it nearly impossible to study these drugs for any potential benefits.

    I believe common sense should lead most people to think that marijuana is less harmful than cocaine and methamphetamine. Both of which are schedule 2.

    Edited the post you quoted. Weed is schedule 1 with heroin, not 3. Had them backwards in my head. Probably from the weed I last smoked 5 years ago...:rotflmao::rotflmao:

    Marijuana doesn't belong on the Schedule 1 list because it DOES have accepted medical uses. And ALL drugs have a high potential for abuse. The government is playing semantics, and losing. Even they can't get their lies straight. And there are strains of marijuana with very low levels of THC in it that give all the medicinal benefits of marijuana without the high. The government lies a lot to cover up their other lies, and end up uncovering the previous lies. Like multiple cats uncovering 'treasures' in the litter box.
    A double action revolver is a semiauto firearm. It fires once for every trigger pull.



  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Marijuana doesn't belong on the Schedule 1 list because it DOES have accepted medical uses. And ALL drugs have a high potential for abuse. The government is playing semantics, and losing. Even they can't get their lies straight. And there are strains of marijuana with very low levels of THC in it that give all the medicinal benefits of marijuana without the high. The government lies a lot to cover up their other lies, and end up uncovering the previous lies. Like multiple cats uncovering 'treasures' in the litter box.

    1. Yes they do. People don't really think of the most common ones anymore because they are widely accepted. Like alcohol, caffeine and nicotine. They all have serious adverse affects on health, but most people just brush them aside.

    2. Strains high in CBD and low in THC can be very medicinal. Especially in children with seizure type malady's from my research and testimony given. But again, the scheduling limits any organized and approved research. It's a crying shame!

    If anyone is interested, this is a great read about how marijuana (aka cannabis) reacts with the cannabinoid receptors in the human brain and why it is medicinal. It is long but very informative. The last paragraph emphasizes what I have been saying.

    https://www.massroots.com/learn/what-are-cannabinoid-receptors/


    A quote from the article for people that won't read it....

    "Due to the dearth of research that has been conducted regarding the human endocannabinoid system and it's interaction with phytocannabinoids from herbs like cannabis, experts and scientists can currently only speculate regarding the complexity and breadth of this system that is so critical for human health"
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,020 Senior Member
    I will readily admit that "weed" needs to be more thoroughly studied to realize it's GIVEN benefits AND side effects. That will never happen as long as it is scheduled how it is. I find it quite comical that it is legal as medicine/recreational in so many states, but still remains a schedule 1 reefer madness drug.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,276 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    During prohibition, alcoholic spririts could be purchased at a pharmacy with a doctors prescription. The containers were actually labeled, for medicinal purposes.
    I remember 200 proof pure medicinal ethyl alcohol being sold in liquor stores in the 1970s.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,079 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    This is why I have been so wishy-washy on my stance for the last few decades. I don't really trust a lot of the data, and I definitely don't trust the perceptions of those who use it a lot. At the very least, it should be regulated by enhanced punishment for those who commit crimes or harm others while under the influence, and there should be heavy penalties for anyone who makes it available to minors.

    The states that are allowing it should provide some good statistics, but I don't trust them to not cook the books, for political advantage.

    You and I both know BOTH sides would cook the books. Same with any other polarizing subject in American politics. All of the arguments back and forth about benefits, risks, what is "high" and what is "sober" is completely beside the point.

    The real question: Do we as a society want to continue to give government the power to arrest people for pot possession?
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand

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