Let's talk about dreamers

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Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    In the eyes of many unfortunately yes. In their eyes the only way to truly and patriotically serve your country is to carry a rifle.

    Way off topic, but what I feel like we desperately need is some form of voluntary civil service program that provides many of the same benefits (although not all) to young Americans who want to contribute to this great nation while helping to train and prepare them for a career. Provide room and board and a minimal stipend with some educational benefits at the end of 2 years and have them help in national parks, support the border patrol, etc. etc. lots of useful things we could have them do.
    Not really off topic. I was kind of thinking that it would be nice if some of these people had other ways to contribute and prove their worth to our country. Unfortunately, not everyone is military material.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,849 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I suggest that if the border is being controlled, and illegals are being deported, it won't be long before the government makes it easier for non-criminals to re-enter on work permits or visas, and that those who were deported have a leg up towards proving the good citizenship tendencies that would streamline their return. Sure, it's a pain in the ass for them, but not an unreasonable one for someone who has broken immigration laws. In fact, I think that Trump and most Republicans would support it, as soon as there is solid law in place and the border control has proven out.
    Maybe although I think you underestimate the amount of true deep seeded racism in this country. Yes the debate is always focused on illegal immigrants which gives it a facade of being all about upholding the law and brings along a lot of people who don't have racist motives. The truth is there are a lot of people in this country who are not ok with the growing population of brown people who also speak Spanish in this country. I grew up in a rural town in Ohio that got an influx of legal migrant workers every year. I witnessed all sorts of over racism towards them. I hear it and see it all the time, especially when I lived in AZ. There are way more people that you're probably willing to admit who just plain don't want them here.

    Republicans have capitalized on this and both overly and covertly pander to these people. On the other side Democrats see an opportunity to caputure a growing demographic so pander to the Latino vote as well. Because this issue is so important to significant parts of both parties base it makes it really hard to compromise on even though the vast majority of us in the middle can easily come up with a reasonable compromise that makes a lot of sense.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,850 Senior Member
    Border security is where it has to start, IMO. And not a ridiculous wall. Simply putting the proper resources where they need to be and getting rid of the 'sanctuary city' crap would be a good start. Unless we really tighten down hard on the flow of illegals coming in, we'll never be able to deal with the problem regarding the ones already here. And this is where the breakdown happens. One side wants to talk about amnesty for those already here, but use border security as political ammo against their opponents. And the other side wants to build a wall, giving easy ammo for them to use....

    Know what happened under Obama when amnesty, DACA and the orders to federal agencies to enforce the law selectively? The border was flooded with illegals. Word travels quick. The administration tied the enforcement agencies hands behind their backs, then let it be loud and clear that "dreamers" would be allowed to stay, families wouldn't be broken up, amnesty was on the way. So, there was a rush of illegals trying to get over here. Literally by the thousands. Detention facilities filled up. Then there was all the activists going nuts about overcrowding in detention camps.

    Give the enforcement agencies what they need first. Don't administratively destroy their ability to do their jobs and give them the tools to do it. Once you send the message that we are going to protect our border, apprehend and deport those trying to come in and clean out all the immigrant felons and trash that is already here, they won't push so hard to get in. Once the border is at least more secure than it is now, then we can talk about dealing with the "dreamers." And as far as they go, I really can't add much more than what some others have said. Deport the ones who have broken the law beyond a certain point. I wouldn't even say just felons. There are some serious misdemeanors that need to be considered as well. Multiple DWI convictions? I've seen it. Assault and battery? If you have violent tendencies, get out... The ones who remain, prove when you got here. Prove what you've been doing to contribute to society (education, work skills, military etc). And the parents need to pay a fine for bringing the child here undocumented to begin with. It would be a long, tedious process. And, it won't get done. Because this is all just political BS anyway. Why was DACA brought up during this round of budget bickering? Because mid terms....
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    I feel like we desperately need is some form of voluntary civil service program that provides many of the same benefits (although not all) to young Americans who want to contribute to this great nation while helping to train and prepare them for a career. Provide room and board and a minimal stipend with some educational benefits at the end of 2 years and have them help in national parks, support the border patrol, etc. etc. lots of useful things we could have them do.
    I hate to admit it, but that sounds like what Obama was proposing early in his term. It was shot down hard by the right as some kind of "Obama/Hitler Youth" kind of thing. On the left, it would get shut down because it would undermine many unionized infrastructure jobs-- and heaven forbid, possibly save taxpayers some money, or at least get better services for their money. We couldn't have that!

    It may be an idea worth exploring, but I am afraid that political interests would ever let it see the light of day.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,849 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Not really off topic. I was kind of thinking that it would be nice if some of these people had other ways to contribute and prove their worth to our country. Unfortunately, not everyone is military material.
    Ok so there is a program. It's called AmeriCorps and it recieves a decent amount of federal support. Young people can volunteer and recieve a small stipend and living expenses to support a wide range of activities. This could potentially be beefed up and expanded or at least promoted more. Then again I think it tends to be associated more with do-gooder liberals so may be politically controversial.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,976 Senior Member
    It's been done already- - - - -by our first Communist-in-Chief!

    http://www.history.com/topics/civilian-conservation-corps

    The labor unions were "agin' it" then, also!

    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,682 Senior Member
    Maybe although I think you underestimate the amount of true deep seeded racism in this country.

    What's that word mean? Liberals spout it at least 10 times per paragraph - it doesn't mean anything anymore...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,976 Senior Member
    I've been a NSACAR fan for decades- - - - -I'm accustomed to being called a "race-ist"! I prefer dirt tracks to superspeedways, so I guess I'm a "dirty race-ist"!
    :devil:
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,682 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I've been a NSACAR fan for decades- - - - -I'm accustomed to being called a "race-ist"! I prefer dirt tracks to superspeedways, so I guess I'm a "dirty race-ist"!
    :devil:
    Jerry

    Just never sit on the outside of turn 4 of a dirt track! :yikes:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,412 Senior Member
    Maybe although I think you underestimate the amount of true deep seeded racism in this country. Yes the debate is always focused on illegal immigrants which gives it a facade of being all about upholding the law and brings along a lot of people who don't have racist motives. The truth is there are a lot of people in this country who are not ok with the growing population of brown people who also speak Spanish in this country. I grew up in a rural town in Ohio that got an influx of legal migrant workers every year. I witnessed all sorts of over racism towards them. I hear it and see it all the time, especially when I lived in AZ. There are way more people that you're probably willing to admit who just plain don't want them here.

    Republicans have capitalized on this and both overly and covertly pander to these people. On the other side Democrats see an opportunity to caputure a growing demographic so pander to the Latino vote as well. Because this issue is so important to significant parts of both parties base it makes it really hard to compromise on even though the vast majority of us in the middle can easily come up with a reasonable compromise that makes a lot of sense.

    Funny how Republican = Racist for many when in all reality no people have done more to foment racial segregation as the Democrat party as of late. Look at the list of folks that will be absent from the State of the Union address to see a parade of our biggest racists at it's finest...

    The Republicans are pandering to folks tired of rule of law being ignored and the consequences of it on the general population as we race down a path of anarchy and unaccountability. As a Puerto Rican with many conservative minority friends that get this, I can say this with aplomb. The Democrats are pandering to the segregationists that keep us all divided and powerless and thrive on the weak-minded that will trade handouts in any form for government subjugation.

    Laws need to be obeyed and enforced or trashed and changed if no good. PERIOD! But as a country we have become too dumb not to vote for the rhetoric...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,682 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    But as a country we have become too dumb not to vote for the rhetoric...

    WORD.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,779 Senior Member
    Maybe although I think you underestimate the amount of true deep seeded racism in this country. Yes the debate is always focused on illegal immigrants which gives it a facade of being all about upholding the law and brings along a lot of people who don't have racist motives. The truth is there are a lot of people in this country who are not ok with the growing population of brown people who also speak Spanish in this country. I grew up in a rural town in Ohio that got an influx of legal migrant workers every year. I witnessed all sorts of over racism towards them. I hear it and see it all the time, especially when I lived in AZ. There are way more people that you're probably willing to admit who just plain don't want them here.

    Republicans have capitalized on this and both overly and covertly pander to these people. On the other side Democrats see an opportunity to caputure a growing demographic so pander to the Latino vote as well. Because this issue is so important to significant parts of both parties base it makes it really hard to compromise on even though the vast majority of us in the middle can easily come up with a reasonable compromise that makes a lot of sense.

    And I think that you overestimate it.

    Democrats have redefined the language in a way that lets them portray anyone who disagrees with them as racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, or as any other kind of hater they need to arouse pity for those they pretend to bleed for. They have to make all of their issues about it, because it's all they know how to do. Take class envy out of their political strategy, and they would never win an election anywhere, because they don't have a clue how to solve any problem that they didn't create in the first place, by pitting one race against the other.

    Having lived among brown and black people all of my life, I like most of them just fine, and the ones I don't like has nothing to do with racism. They are all more trustworthy than liberal Democrats.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,390 Senior Member
    Maybe although I think you underestimate the amount of true deep seeded racism in this country................... The truth is there are a lot of people in this country who are not ok with the growing population of brown people who also speak Spanish in this country. .........................

    I suspected it wouldn't be too long before the Raaaaaaacist card would be drawn!

    and BTW:

    Deep-seeded vs. deep-seated


    Deep-seeded almost makes sense in a metaphorical way (though seeds sown too deeply won’t grow), but deep-seated is the term you’re looking for. The phrasal adjective (usually requiring a hyphen) simply indicates that something is seated (in the sense fixed firmly in place) deeply in something else. The OED defines it as having its seat far beneath the surface.
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    Sorry folks. I don't care what you call it, but I put beans in my chili.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,390 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Sorry folks. I don't care what you call it, but I put beans in my chili.

    Chili ain't chili without the red beans.
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    Chili ain't chili without the red beans.
    Damn right!
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Anchor babies are a misinterpretation of the 14th amendment.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    Anchor babies are a misinterpretation of the 14th amendment.
    Honest question... how so?

    [h=2]Amendment XIV[/h][h=2]Section 1.[/h]All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,850 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Sorry folks. I don't care what you call it, but I put beans in my chili.

    Racist..... :jester:
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,390 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Honest question... how so?

    [h=2]Amendment XIV[/h][h=2]Section 1.[/h]All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    It might be legal, but I think illegal aliens and otherwise should not have their progeny given citizenship. A lot of them come here and squat out a kid just for that right.
    Political correctness is a liberal degrading of the freedom of speech. George Orwell's 1984 famously incorporated the notion of limiting thought through language (see Newspeak)." Meanwhile, the beatings will continue until morale improves around here.
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 1,405 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    Anchor babies are a misinterpretation of the 14th amendment.

    Not a misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment, but an unintended consequence. This amendment, along with the 13th, & 15th amendments were passed just after the Civil War to give the freed slaves citizenship and the full rights that go along with that. I seriously doubt that 150 yrs ago that any one thought about "anchor babies" as we now call them.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,849 Senior Member
    It might be legal, but I think illegal aliens and otherwise should not have their progeny given citizenship. A lot of them come here and squat out a kid just for that right.
    You may not like it, but it's in the constitution. Don't like it find a way to pass and amendment to change it. Btw plenty of liberals don't like the 2A and make similar arguments against it. Just sayin'
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,849 Senior Member
    RugerFan wrote: »
    Not a misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment, but an unintended consequence. This amendment, along with the 13th, & 15th amendments were passed just after the Civil War to give the freed slaves citizenship and the full rights that go along with that. I seriously doubt that 150 yrs ago that any one thought about "anchor babies" as we now call them.
    Again very similar arguments made by liberals against the 2A. "People back then could never have envisioned...insert evil firearm or accessory here".
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 25,412 Senior Member
    Chili ain't chili without the red beans.

    Obviously you meant Pinto beans. Red beans are for New Orleans Beans and Rice with some nice andouille sausage and ham hocks on the side.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    I kind of see the anchor baby thing as more of a symptom of our uncontrolled illegal immigration than anything else. Changing the 14th... is treating a symptom. Controlling immigration is the cure. Being granted citizenship in the country you were born in is very common around the world.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    Jay wrote: »
    Racist..... :jester:
    Hey! I like black beans in my chili too.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,083 Senior Member
    By red beans do you mean kidney beans? I need to try kidney beans that are cooked at home, not out of a can.


    Self edit: deleted the comment that probably would have got deleted anyway because I told myself if I post in this section it will either be food or penis related. Butts too.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,806 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    By red beans do you mean kidney beans? I need to try kidney beans that are cooked at home, not out of a can.
    I do kidney beans all the time at home and they are great, but I like them more firm than you do.

    To go along with your new 2A policy.... my wall decoration, plus Butt Jerm as a rest for the .338.

    There!
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,471 Senior Member
    You may not like it, but it's in the constitution. Don't like it find a way to pass and amendment to change it. Btw plenty of liberals don't like the 2A and make similar arguments against it. Just sayin'

    The baby born here is born a citizen. Not its parents or anyone else that came here illegally.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,083 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I do kidney beans all the time at home and they are great, but I like them more firm than you do.

    To go along with your new 2A policy.... my wall decoration, plus Butt Jerm as a rest for the .338.

    There!
    Beans need to be cooked to the point they almost disintegrate under the weight of one bean. One step above mush.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee

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