Off-The-Wall Ideas about school safety

bisleybisley Senior MemberPosts: 9,655 Senior Member
I think we all agree that gun control laws will solve nothing, as it relates to school protection. The bucket of rocks thread gave me the idea to examine all of the off-the-wall ideas, and challenge all of you smart people to come up with hare-brained ideas that can't be debunked. Let's keep it fairly low budget, like this one I posted on another forum:

"OK, let's explore other silly ideas. How about armored golf carts inside the building. Volunteer teachers converge on the shooter and run him down. Even if he runs into a closet, he is contained. Make them zero-turn, like a lawnmower, and two or three could probably herd him out the door, or pin him in a corner. They could cost $50,000 by the time the government approves them, and that's still less than one properly trained security guard.

My point is that there are hundreds of different ways, maybe thousands, which would save lives - which gun control will not do."

Post 'em up, and then we'll tear them down.



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Comments

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,304 Senior Member
    Just was watching the news. All these ideas are stupid and silly, the only thing that will work is banning guns.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,655 Senior Member
    Non-responsive.

    Next.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 444 Member
    Veterans for kids.

    Retired and/or honorably discharged veterans employed as resource assistants payed at tax payer expence in conjunction with funds from verterans organizations in cooperation and co-sponsored with and by local law enforcement agencies. Sometimes armed with CCW's, sometimes not, depending on circumstance, but never divulged to the general public or student body.

    Enough is enough. No more gun free zones.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,747 Senior Member
    When my kids have an active shooter drill at school, I ask them:

    What do you see available to hurt someone with? How will you use it? Like anywhere else in life, everything becomes a weapon-- fire extinguishers, chairs, desks, books, pencils, pens, staplers, trash cans, hair brushes.

    Like the rest of life, the biggest thing is I am trying to teach them to be as ruthless as possible if faced with a threat and the mindset to do it. There is no need to be cynical about it or teach them to be cynical, but to understand that reality.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,655 Senior Member
    OK, folks. I'm appealing to your can-do Americanism.

    Solve this problem or go sit down with the liberals.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,655 Senior Member
    edited March 25 #7
    early and jerm -good ideas - now, come up with something foolish, that might actually work.

    shush - you are needed here, too. Give us one of those 'boffin' ideas, like you folks used on D-Day.

    orchidman - you, too. This is right up your alley.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,747 Senior Member
    A very simple idea that is fairly cheap is to limit access to the school grounds during the school day-- not at the front door, but before they even get to the parking area. If someone not supposed to be there gets through, it gives the guard time to give people in the building a heads up. It is fairly unobtrusive.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,468 Senior Member
    I like the golf cart idea, but make them a good deal smaller, like the size of a smaller quad, but three wheels, one wheel in back and two on front. Bulletproof glass all around, and a serious bumper front and rear for mashing the shooter against the wall or floor. And bumpers electrified with the cattle prods from Hades to light 'em up if they are still frisky. Shock them unconscious or dead, but get them subdued. Dead is just as good as alive; the shooter isn't shooting anymore, and that's the purpose of the exercise.

    At EACH classroom door, a metal ground pad outside. Small CCTV camera in ceiling outside and inside a small CCTV monitor at side of doorframe to locate shooter. When shooter is standing on pad, metal net drops down and lights them up like a short circuit in an electrical switchyard. 'Smoke 'em if ya  got 'em!'

    Double entrance doors to school to trap any nitwit trying to enter with firearms. Bulletproof construction, and bulletproof glass at the side for checkin of visitors. Metal detector between door sets that have to be passed before entry.

    Enough metal detectors to efficiently move students coming in to school. It CAN be done.

    Bring back the alternative schools with serious discipline for any student that tries to bring a weapon on campus.

    No firearms are in these three simple fixes with exception for school SROs.
    A double action revolver is a semiauto firearm. It fires once for every trigger pull.



  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 444 Member
    edited March 25 #10
    My son says give all the kids bullet proof armor.

    I say birds, bats, and bees. Have some in every class room to set loose, confusing and disorienting a would be shooter.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,589 Senior Member
    Moats, draw-bridges, and high stone walls.  At 07:00 the bridges go up; at 15:00 they go back down.  To keep it relatively low-budget, construction can be carried out as part of a trade education program for the students.

    Being in school as a kid always made me FEEL like I was suffocating inside an inescapable prison; might as well make the reality match the sensation.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    Cameras at all entrances and all of these have locked gates that can only be opened by person at the monitor. Metal detectors at all entrances. Cameras in all school hallways and screens in all class rooms so teacher can see what is going on. Fence around entire school that gives warning of attempted breach. Person monitoring cameras has button to electrify fence. Add in armed personnel.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,079 Senior Member
    When my kids have an active shooter drill at school, I ask them:

    What do you see available to hurt someone with? How will you use it? Like anywhere else in life, everything becomes a weapon-- fire extinguishers, chairs, desks, books, pencils, pens, staplers, trash cans, hair brushes.

    Like the rest of life, the biggest thing is I am trying to teach them to be as ruthless as possible if faced with a threat and the mindset to do it. There is no need to be cynical about it or teach them to be cynical, but to understand that reality.
    This. I've told my kids, if you hear shots break out a window and haul a$$. If it turns out to be a false alarm, I'll replace the glass. 

    Off the wall idea...make the classroom doors ballistically secure, with the ability to bolt closed with the push of a button. 

    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    edited March 25 #14
    Start teaching kids that violence is sometimes the only answer to a problem.....teach them to be warriors instead of victims. Instead of cowering and awaiting execution teach them to rise up and defend themselves....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 3,954 Senior Member
    We have cameras at the one entrance you can get in during the day.  Thing is, I could be wearing a big trench coat in the winter and be loaded to the gills and they would still buzz me in. They need a double entrance with a metal detector in the middle.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,655 Senior Member
    Personally, I'm more into the ideas that make schools an unattractive target than just 'forting up.'

    I like the ideas that turn high school students into adults, at least to the extent that those who are able should look for ways to fight back by outnumbering and overwhelming a lone attacker. Ideas that help them to survive, whether by flight or fight should be encouraged by their local school boards, with as much parental participation as can be mustered.

    Senior boys are months away from becoming soldiers, Marines, etc., so a certain percentage of them can be empowered as leaders who will fight back, if faced with a desperate situation, If all they are taught is to run away, they won't have a plan and will miss any opportunity that they might have had to save themselves and others. It's completely possible that one of them might find himself within 20 feet of an attacker, with the gun pointed the other way - perfect for a bull rush that could knock him loose from the gun, or allow him to be taken out by two or three fired up teenagers.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    edited March 26 #17
    Stonewall Jackson wanted to arm a good number of his troops with pikes for close quarter engagements....an idea not without merit in this case....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,021 Senior Member
    I am going to go with clayemore's in the hallways that get armed when all students are in the classroom. DO NOT FORGET TO GET A HALL PASS!
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,021 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Start teaching kids that violence is sometimes the only answer to a problem.....teach them to be warriors instead of victims. Instead of cowering and awaiting execution teach them to rise up and defend themselves....
    Im thinking that is why a lot of these things are happening. Just saying.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,747 Senior Member
    If you know there are going to be several hundred kids ready to beat the hell out of you with books, desks, rocks, and cans of creamed corn if you try anything, it might make you think twice. The standard right now is that you have a no weapon zone where the potential victims are taught to scurry away and hide under their desks-- that plays right into the psyche of these shooters-- they do this because they want to feel powerful.

    No matter how twisted their heads are, nobody wants to be known as the guy that showed up with a gun and got beat to death with a spelling book. 
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,589 Senior Member
    bisley said:
    Personally, I'm more into the ideas that make schools an unattractive target than just 'forting up.'

    I like the ideas that turn high school students into adults, at least to the extent that those who are able should look for ways to fight back by outnumbering and overwhelming a lone attacker. Ideas that help them to survive, whether by flight or fight should be encouraged by their local school boards, with as much parental participation as can be mustered.

    Senior boys are months away from becoming soldiers, Marines, etc., so a certain percentage of them can be empowered as leaders who will fight back, if faced with a desperate situation, If all they are taught is to run away, they won't have a plan and will miss any opportunity that they might have had to save themselves and others. It's completely possible that one of them might find himself within 20 feet of an attacker, with the gun pointed the other way - perfect for a bull rush that could knock him loose from the gun, or allow him to be taken out by two or three fired up teenagers.
    Granted, I am MORE than a little cynical when it comes to the public education system, but there are a couple of problems with this approach, admirable as the sentiments behind it are:

    1.  We've got this institutionally-entrenched sheeple mindset that sends kids home for drawing pictures of guns or wearing NRA tee shirts along with preaching of a mantra that violence doesn't solve anything.  These folks are so in love with academia that they never LEFT academia, and committing acts of violence even in defense is a concept most of them can't even comprehend - let alone teach.  In a discussion of Sun Tzu's The Art of War, they haven't even found the fingerpaint and crayons.

    2.  Assuming you can get past the problems of #1, you still have to sell the parents on it.  Half are going to cough up a hairball at the notion in much the same way the aforementioned educators will (How dare you teach my little Johnny such warlike behavior!).  The other half will silently nod and go along at the PTA meeting, then immediately go home and tell their kid "I don't care if they told you to stand your ground and throw staplers!  Let the OTHER kids take one for the team - YOU get the hell out of there!"

    3.  Public schools are home to some of the worst impulses of human behavior, what with their cliques of popularity, exclusion, shaming, assimilation, and lack thereof.  One side is that it's pretty hard to convince anyone at the dawn of their life, who has barely even contemplated their own mortality, to shift out of that gear at a moment's notice to lay it all down for someone else.  The other side. . . as I hinted at in my first post, about all I had in common with most of my fellow students was that we were inmates in the same prison, and when I graduated, I was paroled and DONE with them.  If you'd have suggested at age 16 that I risk a bullet to save any but a small, select handful, I'd have laughed long, loud, and hard at the notion.  

    4.  While some of them may be months away from becoming Soldiers and Marines, they haven't had anything like that kind of structured programming yet, so for the most part, you're still dealing with 1 through 3.

    So. . .this notion of active security from within. . .I have my doubts.

    But to get back to my moats and draw-bridges. . .they might still have boiling oil in the cafeteria fryer.  Unless that's too much trans-fat for the current era.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,685 Senior Member
    edited March 26 #22
    bisley said:
    early and jerm -good ideas - now, come up with something foolish, that might actually work.

    ith flshush - you are needed here, too. Give us one of those 'boffin' ideas, like you folks used on D-Day.

    orchidman - you, too. This is right up your bballey.
    Arm teachers with flash bangs to distract the perp until help arrives. The perp may not know what they are and they may scare him off. Don't advertise this.
    Also, what about tasers? You gotta get close true enough but somebody hiding in a closet could Zap the purp when he least expects.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,747 Senior Member
    Not a bad brain storm idea Snake. It may not be a practical or good idea, but there may be some merit to it too.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,685 Senior Member
    edited March 26 #24
    Also, what about air cannons? Something to knock the perp off his feet or the gun out of his hand.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,747 Senior Member
    Butt Jerm could be an air cannon!
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 444 Member
    A coffee can of marbles at every doorway. Hear the shooter coming, dump the can at their feet.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,685 Senior Member
    Not a bad brain storm idea Snake. It may not be a practical or good idea, but there may be some merit to it too.
    Which one?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    We have been teaching our children that violence is unacceptable and that standing up to bullies is a bad thing for so long, we have a whole generation that won't fight to save their own lives......pathetic commentary on the state of the country....


    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 13,747 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    Not a bad brain storm idea Snake. It may not be a practical or good idea, but there may be some merit to it too.
    Which one?
    Flash bangs. Maybe not in every classroom (they have been known to kill people in close quarters and you know a kid-- or myself-- would love to get their hands on one). It could be a tool worth looking into for certain personnel though.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,350 Senior Member
    The students doing the walk out protest were in the minority at our H.S., the rest wore camo and sat in class, good luck at our H.S., you're going down.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 1,918 Senior Member
    Every student that walked out of class should have been expelled for one week, period!
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