Breathing

Diver43Diver43 Senior MemberPosts: 7,304 Senior Member
When shooting when do you press the trigger:  A. Between breaths, B. After you exhale, C. After you inhale, D. Exhale halfway?
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
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Comments

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,074 Senior Member
    Mix of all that with my bad shootin habits.

    When firing scoped rifles I usually pull the trigger when I get the best sight pic in the crosshairs...........don't think about it much anymo really.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    edited April 2 #3
    During your natural respiratory pause....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,345 Senior Member
    edited April 2 #4
    Two words....Respiratory pause.
    Jayhawker's faster because I can't spell.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,685 Senior Member
    edited April 2 #5
    Diver43 said:
    When shooting when do you press the trigger:  A. Between breaths, B. After you exhale, C. After you inhale, D. Exhale halfway?
    I think everybody has their own technique they evolve into. The military and boy scouts, 4H whatever, take thousands of kids and young men and teach them how to shoot, almost like on an assembly line and they don't have the luxury of a lot of time. Some of these people, maybe most, have never held a gun before, so they use a general method on them that mostly works for most people. Remember, they're not teaching them to compete and they don't have time to allow them to develop their own technique at this time. So we have the "Take a deep breath and let half of it out" technique. It works for most people. That CAN work for me but I can't say that's what I do all the time. I have been shooting so long that I don't even think about any specific technique. I just pull the trigger when I see I'm not moving and I have the target aligned in my sights or scope and I can't even tell you how I arrived at that place.

    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    Breath in, exhale partially, line up sights and pull the trigger.  If you exhale completely and shoot more than once, you'll start to quiver from oxygen lack.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,470 Senior Member
    I'm a big fan of breathing. I do it all the time. 
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,304 Senior Member
    I used to do the exhale half way press, just like the Army taught me.  Have moved on to relax, breath, sight picture, and at as said during natural pause presss the trigger.  I went from hitting the target each time, to shooting a much better group.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 444 Member
    I generally try to press at the pause after exhaling.
  • wddodgewddodge Senior Member Posts: 941 Senior Member
    I depends on what I'm shooting. If shooting slow and trying to get a good group, I tend to exhale-pause-shoot. If during an IDPA style match, moving from firing point to firing point with the clock ticking, I tend to shoot while slowly exhaling and inhaling during a reload or moving to the next firing point.

    Denny
    Participating in a gun buy back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids.... Clint Eastwood
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,969 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    Breath in, exhale partially, line up sights and pull the trigger.  If you exhale completely and shoot more than once, you'll start to quiver from oxygen lack.
    This works best for me. YMMV. Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 16,557 Senior Member
    Honestly, depends on what I am shooting, and the situation.

    Bird hunting: whenever it "feels" right.
    Deer Hunting: I hold my breath and squeeze as soon as the sights/cross hairs are where I want them
    Target (bench) shooting: During the natural pause after completing exhalation
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    I'm shooting a lot of iron sights, which takes a little while (for me) to get the sights aligned and the sight picture good.  I'm talking about 10 seconds or more.  I can shoot a couple of rounds with a single breath, but any more than that I start to black out the target.

    Even with a scope, which I shot Saturday, it was not a given thing...Oh, a one-hole group was a given, but for the near-bore diameter 5-shot groups, I had to concentrate on the circle in the center of the target.  Took longer than just line-up-and squeeze.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,589 Senior Member
    Exhale completely and send it.

    Arrived at that conclusion in Highpower competition, in which you're wrapped up like a mummy and strapped to the rifle.  Breathing alters the position enough to matter, and it's MUCH easier to consistently deflate the balloon 100% than some lesser percentage.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,685 Senior Member
    Yeah, but depending on your cardio vascular condition, when that last bit of oxygen leaves your lungs you better be ready to send it down range, because it may not be long and you will be anaerobic and oxygen starved and your body will involuntarily start to spasmodically jerk.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,589 Senior Member
    It's about a five second window of "good" before things start to get blurry, then shaky.  I've not found it to matter much where you pause in the cycle as far as that goes - I've stopped breathing and my lizard brain begins to sound alarms to start again, none of which help.  A pearl-diver's mileage may vary.  Aside from a final cleanup of the sight picture, it's the very last thing on my checklist, so that's typically plenty of time.  Its the pre-shot setup of position and natural point of aim I spend the time on,  as deficiencies there will usually screw up a shot more than anything else. I don't start the final blow out until that's set, or in the very final stage of getting there.  There might be a second breath if things aren't pretty enough, but my actual time on target is usually short compared to a lot of folks.  In Highpower that was an advantage for two reasons; first, since I never did learn to read wind worth a damn, it let me get off more rounds between changes in condition; second, if you spend too long staring at one sight picture, it can tend to "burn" onto your retina giving your brain a bit of mush that's part real sight picture, and part sight picture of two seconds ago.

    Kind of a tricky thing to teach, actually.  You put a lot of effort coaching folks to pay attention to position, grip, trigger pull, sight picture, breathing pause, etc..., and they end up being S-L-O-O-O-O-W-W-W in checking all those boxes.  THEN you try to tell them there's a finite "oxygen window" in there to get a good shot off in, and they either keep going slow and shoot in the blurry-shakes, or go back to slapping triggers again.  Job security, I suppose. . .
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,074 Senior Member
    edited April 3 #17
    At my age I wonder if there is a good technique to fart and then fire or should I try to hold it (don't work so good), then squeeze off a shot and then fart??????

    Or simultaneously? 
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,347 Senior Member
    Good, bad, or indifferent; I generally inhale, exhale slightly and stop, shoot, then continue exhaling.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 36,652 Senior Member
    Big Chief said:
    At my age I wonder if there is a good technique to fart and then fire or should I try to hold it (don't work so good), then squeeze off a shot and then fart??????

    Or simultaneously? 
    I'd try and not fart at the same time. Since farts have been known to be a solid or liquid instead of a gas, it seems to me that doing that at the shot may introduce more stress wondering which state of matter is in your britches. 😬
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,080 Senior Member
    After I inhale.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,074 Senior Member
    Good thing Jerm did not fart (I think??) when you were using his natural rest to shoot from..................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,685 Senior Member
    edited April 3 #22
    cpj said:
    Big Chief said:
    At my age I wonder if there is a good technique to fart and then fire or should I try to hold it (don't work so good), then squeeze off a shot and then fart??????

    Or simultaneously? 
    I'd try and not fart at the same time. Since farts have been known to be a solid or liquid instead of a gas, it seems to me that doing that at the shot may introduce more stress wondering which state of matter is in your britches. 😬
    At least if you do choose to let one out while shooting, don't wear white pants. "OMG! I think I've Chat myself....."
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,961 Senior Member
    Precision Shooting: Inhale/Exhale/Natural Respiratory Pause/Press Trigger

    Defensive Shooting: Breath Naturally 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,173 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Precision Shooting: Inhale/Exhale/Natural Respiratory Pause/Press Trigger

    Defensive Shooting: Breath Naturally 

    Funny thing is when running certain training courses I’ve seen (and done it myself) people will hold their breath ... some to the point of getting a little light headed.


    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    It takes me more than five seconds to shoot, generally so I exhale halfway  and stop.  Which is why I have half a lungful of breath.  There is a narrow window that I fill with finding the sight, concentrating on the target, and working the trigger.  I can't do all that on an empty lung.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,961 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    It takes me more than five seconds to shoot, generally so I exhale halfway  and stop.  Which is why I have half a lungful of breath.  There is a narrow window that I fill with finding the sight, concentrating on the target, and working the trigger.  I can't do all that on an empty lung.
    You do all that before you exhale. At your natural respiratory pause, you are at your natural point of aim and the trigger is pressed at that moment. 

    You dont screw around at the at the bottom of the breath cycle. It’s about timing. If for some reason, things aren’t right and you need to take another breath. You do. And start the cycle over again. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    But when you exhale, you change the sight picture because of your chest movement.  I don't need another breath for the way I shoot.  YMMV.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,961 Senior Member
    That’s called acquiring a natural point of aim. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 36,652 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    That’s called acquiring a natural point of aim. 
    ^thats called banging your head against a brick wall.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    edited April 6 #30

    Interesting discussion.  I've been shooting in competition for so long that everything is on automatic now.  It's when I try to consciously control my breathing that bad stuff happens.   So I don't do that anymore.  The closest I can explain it now is that I breathe very normally while aiming, but I'm not taking big breaths, just normal.  Then when I'm about to press the trigger, I seem to stop breathing and moving for that instant and the shot goes and breathing resumes.    I don't think about it.

    When shooting team, you can't play around with breathing exercise; when the coach says fire, you fire.  When I coach the team, they can tell by my tone of voice when they are going to be shooting; I try to make it not a surprise.


    Let me just say that if you're still obsessing about breathing when you're shooting; you are not doing it right to begin with.

  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,685 Senior Member
    Good thread.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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