12GA shotgun slugs ???

CurlsCurls MemberPosts: 44 Member
Ok i have a quick question well i no i can shoot 300 yards at paper and hit a body target in one shot. But i was just looking at 12GA slug ballistic charts and the fps on the round looked slow. So i'm wondering if it is possible to kill something like a whitetail deer at that range with a 12GA slug ??? Or how deep would it penetrate ballistic gel at that range ???

Comments

  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    I am aware of no slug load/rifled barrel combo that would be accurate enough at 300 yds to take an ethical shot. But if you did accidentally hit one at that range, I doubt it would bounce off harmlessly
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • LerchessLerchess Senior Member Posts: 550 Senior Member
    It would definitely be able to kill a deer at 300, but as Razor said it is just not ethical to try. There just aren't that many shotguns on the market that are that consistent. T/C, Browning A-Bolt, and the Savage 212 (?) would worth trying though. At +/- $2/per shot it would be an expensive endeavor.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,468 Senior Member
    I know of one, and only one, shotgun capable of making a 300 yard shot with a slug. Prices start in the 4 digit range as they are custom built from billet steel. Tar Hunt shotguns are limited production now. Next best bet would be the Savage bolt action shotgun.
    A double action revolver is a semiauto firearm. It fires once for every trigger pull.



  • CurlsCurls Member Posts: 44 Member
    ya it was actually at the 280 yard range and it was with a mossberg 590a1 shotgun with the 20in barrel and it was a lob it was a vary luck shot. But besides the shot im just wondering if i did hit my target would it kill the animal ???
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,598 Senior Member
    At 300 yards, a 550 gr 17mm diameter sabot slug that left the barrel at 1650 FPS and a G1 ballistic coefficient of .1 would have a drop of 92 inches, be traveling at 800 FPS and have 785 FPE, more than double a 9mm Glock 17 at point blank range. If you could account for the over 7 ft drop at 300 yards it would definately be enough to drop a deer.

    Impractible but not impossible.

    IMHO

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • CurlsCurls Member Posts: 44 Member
    BigDanS are you a sniper ??? thats some impressive stuff. and ok thank you guys i'm not going to try it but i just wanted to no.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    Could you hit a deer? maybe...could you reliably hit the vitals of the deer with a likelihood of making a clean, humane kill....unlikely...just because the ballistics work, does not mean the combination of shooter, shotgun and slug will....this is what most folks would term a "Hail Mary Shot".... in short it's unethical and irresponsible...these critters aren't out there for target practice
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    What Jayhawker said. You are basing the ability to hit your target on luck. Nothing wrong with that when you are shooting paper, but not good when you are shooting a living creature.
    Being able to kill an animal at any range relies heavily on you to be able to put the round where it needs to go, not just lobbing random rounds crossing your finger and saying a prayer.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • CurlsCurls Member Posts: 44 Member
    haha ya i'm not going to try to kill one i just wanted to no the power of a 12ga slug at a range. And i didn't want to make another thread for this but does any one no of a really good really long range scope like 800 yards for this rifle that has a mil-dot reticule http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/remington-tactical-rifle-84203-winchester-inhvy-hogue-overmolded-stock-black-finish-p-119542.html ???
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    There are many good scopes out there that will take you to 800 yards and beyond...I use a 4-16 Millett on my LR rifles....much more magnification can create as many problems as it cures....some you will need to mortgage your house to buy, others are in the realm of the regular working stiff.... Mildot reticles are very common , pretty much all the scope makers offer them or some variant of them. Learning how to use one properly is something else entirely...not hard ( I mean it WAS invented for Marines)...but it does take some effort.
    Check out SWFA http://swfa.com/?gclid=CNf9kIeq0rMCFRRbnAodpnoAgQ...A good place top start...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • CurlsCurls Member Posts: 44 Member
    i have quite a little bit of money to drop on a scope like 450-500 $$$ but i would like some pointers to good companies im a little new to sniping long range but short range 0-300 yards with like a 20$ walmart scope i can do that but any more range and im done. so could i get some companies to trust. im use to the hole taking the cap off and doing my clicks with a screw driver, but i have been liking the hole big nobs with the readings on them i really like that hole idea. i no i sound like a noob but i just need some help with long range scopes.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,530 Senior Member
    Before we get started on the "hole" Long Range thing...do you have a good understanding of external ballistics? I ask because you seem somewhat mystified when BigDan gave you the ballistic properties of a 12 gauge slug., Something you'll need to know in order to use a MilDot reticle...

    Certainly there are optics that can be had for the money you have, but in truth, you have about half of what you need to get a really good scope....

    What, exactly, do you intend to snipe?

    And - last, but not least...it would be extremely helpful if you could slow down and work on your spelling and punctuation...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • CurlsCurls Member Posts: 44 Member
    ya im really new to the hole long range thing i have hit a 900 yard target before but that was because he got on the scope and sighted it in first then let me on the gun. i hunt whitetail but like i said thats only a 100-150 yard shot with my .308 with a 35$ scope on it. Ya i have some idea of the bullet drop and what not i dont no the exact numbers you have to use to use to calculate distance off the top of my head. So ya i might need a little studying on my ballistics... And my bad all spelling and grammer misstakes i make me computer just fixes them and they are not always the right fixes. So you might get a little annoyed of me if you a grammer nazi. Im working on it.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,332 Senior Member
    Curls wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm really new to the whole long range thing. I have hit a 900 yard target before but that was because he got on the scope and sighted it in first then let me on the gun. I hunt whitetail but like i said that's only a 100-150 yard shot with my .308 with a $35 scope on it. Yeah, i have some idea of the bullet drop and what not I don't know the exact numbers you have to use to calculate distance off the top of my head. So yeah, I might need a little studying on my ballistics. And my bad spelling and grammar mistakes I make, my computer just fixes them and they are not always the right fixes. So you might get a little annoyed of me if you a grammar Nazi. I'm working on it.

    Fixed if for you. I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi, and see no advantage to sounding illiterate, doesn't do us gun owners any good. PR, you know. If your computer is allowing such a high number of mistakes, you need to update your computer to be taken seriously. Lots of the mistakes in spelling are not true spelling mistakes, but usage mistakes, "no" for "know," for example. These are third grade grammar level mistakes, makes me wonder if you're using a voice-activated program for typing, like "Dragon."

    Work on your ballistics. I'm still not convinced you knew a slug was not a 300 yard projectile.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,915 Senior Member
    If you managed to hit a target at 300 yards +/- a little with a shotgun slug, I'm betting it was blind luck. How many times can you accomplish that hit out of a 10-shot string? At that range, the slug is going to be traveling at close to a 45-degree angle to the line of sight, which will narrow the hit zone even more than a rifle bullet would have at a similar range. If your shooting skills match your writing ability, I don't want to be anywhere near you in the woods!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • RazorbackerRazorbacker Senior Member Posts: 4,646 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    If you managed to hit a target at 300 yards +/- a little with a shotgun slug, I'm betting it was blind luck. How many times can you accomplish that hit out of a 10-shot string? At that range, the slug is going to be traveling at close to a 45-degree angle to the line of sight, which will narrow the hit zone even more than a rifle bullet would have at a similar range. If your shooting skills match your writing ability, I don't want to be anywhere near you in the woods!
    Jerry

    Teach, from one old codger to another, the kids not all bad. Seems like he knows what he doesn't know, mostly at least. He seems to take advice without taking offense.
    He's gotta start some where. A real good start would be to 86 the text speak though.
    Teach your children to love guns, they'll never be able to afford drugs
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 8,452 Senior Member
    Now with a 1oz foster type slug, 300 yards is like walking in artillery.

    I bet it could be done with a sabot in a gun like the Savage bolt. Hornady SST's still have 1340fps second and only drop 6.7'' at 200 yards...

    http://www.hornady.com/store/12-GA-SST-Slug-300gr-SST

    2041Hornady.jpg

    69514.jpg
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,468 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Now with a 1oz foster type slug, 300 yards is like walking in artillery.

    I bet it could be done with a sabot in a gun like the Savage bolt. Hornady SST's still have 1340fps second and only drop 6.7'' at 200 yards...

    http://www.hornady.com/store/12-GA-SST-Slug-300gr-SST

    The three inch shotshells firing those sabot bullets have a similar trajectory to the .45-70. Actually a little better as they are faster and the bullet lighter than the .45-70 factory stuff now. At 300 yards there is still a lot of drop so a shooter would have to know the range to the yard and have a drop table worked up for the shotgun to make a hit. And a lot of trigger time at that range to be confident of a good shot and clean kill.

    I tried last night to find the Tar Heel site for their shotguns; the site is messed up. G&A did a writeup of their shotgun in 1997 though. The barrel wall on them is pretty thick; thicker than the Savage.

    Couldn't find the article; must be that archive thing from two crashes back. Here's all I could find on the G&A site on the Tar Heel RSG bolt shotgun.

    http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/tarhunt-rsg
    A double action revolver is a semiauto firearm. It fires once for every trigger pull.



  • snake284-1snake284-1 Senior Member Posts: 2,500 Senior Member
    Other than something like Teenmike is talking about, your garden variety 12 gauge slug gun won't do it reliably at 300 yards. Hell, most rifles are starting to slow down pretty good at that range. A slug shotgun is made for 100 yardish range, maybe out to 150, but then they start to slow down. Remember, most shotguns are relatively low pressure firearms. Even the rifled barreled guns don't have the pressure and initial velocity for that kind of work. Most shotguns don't generate 20,000 PSI chamber pressure, when even the lowly 30-30 has 30-40,000 PSI. But even a 30-30 is losing it so fast at 200 yards, at 300 yards it is almost incapable of killing reliably. A 12 gauge slug gun is a 100 yard proposition.
    I'm Just a Radical Right Wing Nutt Job, Trying to Help Save My Country!
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,062 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Now with a 1oz foster type slug, 300 yards is like walking in artillery.

    I bet it could be done with a sabot in a gun like the Savage bolt. Hornady SST's still have 1340fps second and only drop 6.7'' at 200 yards...

    http://www.hornady.com/store/12-GA-SST-Slug-300gr-SST

    8623_SST_Slug_12GA.jpg

    69514.jpg

    Out to 200 yards things seem pretty good but going to 300 things get pretty interesting!

    From the Website: (using 2000 f/s vel., 300 grain Bullet Weight, 0.171 BC, 0.50 Caliber, 1.5 in. sight height)



    Vel/KE






    Muzzle
    50 yds
    100 yds
    150 yds
    200 yds


    2000/2664
    1816/2196
    1641/1793
    1482/1463
    1341/1198


    Trajectory






    Muzzle






    -1.50"
    2.40"
    2.70"
    0.00
    -6.70"




    From the JBMBallistics website:

    Range
    Drop
    Drop


    (yd)
    (in)
    (MOA)


    0
    -1.5
    ***


    50
    2.0
    3.8


    100
    2.8
    2.6


    150
    -0.0
    -0.0


    200
    -7.2
    -3.4


    250
    -20.0
    -7.6


    300
    -39.6
    -12.6



    I'm guessing someone with a lot of skill could do it but most of us shouldn't! That SST starts to drop pretty fast past 200 yds. The energy at 200, 250 and 300 are (1036, 847 and 722, respectively)

    JMHO
    "Facts are stubborn things and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence" — John Adams
  • CurlsCurls Member Posts: 44 Member
    HAHA Thank you guys for the input, well now i no not to try to kill anything past 100-150 yards with a slug. :)

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