.22 LR for SD/HD

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 30,161 Senior Member
Not my first choice by far, but like it is oft said, I'd rather hit my target with a .22 than miss with a .44 (my main house gun right now is a .44 Spl stoked with 200 grain Gold Dots, others available in strategic locations).

There are some good videos out there with testing all kinds of .22 LR ammo. Of course a .22 from a rifle is gonna usually be more effective especially with HPs. The velocity loss from a 16" rifle bbl to a 4" handgun bbl is something to consider. The stated velocity on .22 ammo boxes is from a rifle length bbl and so those marked 1250 FPS will give you somewhere in the 900-1000 FPS from a handgun, usually.

CCI Mini-Mags seem to be a great choice. One video I watched showed the 36 grain HP doing exceptionally well from a Ruger 10/22 rifle and expanding nicely, but no expansion from a handgun and a lot of penetration. Solid 40 grain CCI MMs did well from a handgun and tumbled.

The gel test I watched used a few layers of denim, then gel blocks. CCI HPs expanded from a rifle even through the denim, when fired from a rifle and plugged up from a handgun with virtually no expansion.

Some .22 ammo may very well expand from handguns, especially with all the different kinds out there these days and without the denim.

Either way a .22 is sure better than no gun. I may buy another Ruger 10/22 (sold the 2 I have owned in the past) which with a 10 rd rotary mag or a 25 rd one would sure dissuade an BG in the house. I'd want an aftermarket trigger this time around.

No reason my Marlin model 60 with 14 shot tube couldn't work as it is either or any other semi-auto .22 rifle. It just seems the shorter Ruger 10/22s are better suited and much faster to reload for on the range, it is unlikely you will need to reload for a break-in at home, but that would take away a reason fer buying another gun. :tooth: Then again, if you live way out and help is a long time away I could see the possibility of needing to reload or got into a scenario where a lot of shots are fired inside your home if you were being attacked by multiple invaders and had a good firing position, again a faster reload would be nice.

And if I had my MKII semi or a revolver hand and I needed a gun, I wouldn't hesitate to use one of them either if it was all I could get my hands on at the time of need.

Frail/older folks with a disability, gun/recoil shy, family members, non-gun folks ...you name it.. a lot of folks would be better served with a .22 over no gun at all. A .22 may be the only gun some folks can shoot well or own.

I say be able to handle/shoot every gun you own with some degree of proficiency and teach family members the same so that they can safely load/unload/shoot them and know how they function to put them into service if ever needed. You just never know what gun or caliber you may end up with in your hands that you grab or is handed to you, so learn all you can and pass it on to loved ones because you may not always be there.

Anyway, my take on .22s besides being just fun as all get out to shoot. Here is one guys perspective and there are plenty more on .22s for SD/HD out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w4Z5azEPWk
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
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  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    An other good video testing Stingers from a handgun and rifle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbVY4gT5P20
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    Oh and I forgot to consider all those AR clone .22s out there for those so inclined.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,178 Senior Member
    A smart man told me that handguns make holes in a bad guy, rifles make holes thru a bad guy and shotguns knock chunks out of a bad guy. Along that lines a .22lr will put holes in a bad guy and if you spread 'me around you'll take the fight out of most plus letting the hydraulic fluid out so after a couple minutes he stops but a light switch CNS shot is way harder. Like you said though it's better than no gun. Besides it's lower energy I am not real comfortable with the reliability of rimefire to always go bang. A failure to fire from rimfire could cost you a maybe a couple seconds to correct which needs to be factored in depending on type of firearm.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    From a short reliable auto loading carbine yes. From a pistol not for me.

    Id use 40 gr solids, no hp's and no Stingers.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,367 Senior Member
    Here ya go:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=10248&d=1457329856
    naa.jpg 102.6K
    NAA.jpg 49.7K
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    Hey, I got a NAA in my shorts pocket right now loaded with .22 mags. I've never used the .22 LR cylinder. I hardly notice it, not the best choice, but I always have it on me and know I should use my LC9s (within reach), but it is what it is.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,083 Senior Member
    Have you tried the Aguila Hipermaximum ammo? A 30gr. pill traveling around 1800fps. from a rifle barrel and available in HP & CCRN.

    I agree that .22LR is, specially from a rifle, better than no gun but far from ideal. Just a few days ago a local college teacher was attacked in his car by a gang of robbers and he defended himself with a .22LR pistol; the aftermath left 2 wounded thieves on the run and their 2 weapons in the pavement, which they used to threaten and then fire against the victim (They were probably looking to steal his car): A Beretta 92F (Almost for sure stolen from a cop) and a .38 Special snubby revolver.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    Antonio wrote: »
    Have you tried the Aguila Hipermaximum ammo? A 30gr. pill traveling around 1800fps. from a rifle barrel and available in HP & CCRN. ..............

    No, the only Aguila I have is some low noise stuff. I have been meaning to try some of that brand. For some reason I assumed it wasn't very good .22 ammo for years, but recently I have read it is pretty good stuff.

    I know Ruger and others do not recommend that hyper stuff like Stingers to be fired from their semis..... I'm sure a box or two wouldn't hurt but constant use batters them I'm told.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 5,960 Senior Member
    What no;

    400px-Kilroy-like_BPF_circuit_diagram.PNG

    mention of the .410 bore?

    cjp wrote: »

    ..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »

    ...But seriously Shush....

     


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    What no;

    400px-Kilroy-like_BPF_circuit_diagram.PNG

    mention of the .410 bore?

    Naw, we don't go that low :jester: :guns: :guns:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    Here he got good expansion with .22 HPs from a handgun shot into cloth then ribs and watermelon, different than what I saw on ballistic gel.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpQEKhpuMco
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,411 Senior Member
    Thanks for posting this Chief. I consider all of my handguns as potential SD/HD guns before I buy them, so I have no safe queens. All of them are expected to be able to defend me and my family when called upon; I expect the same usability from my S&W 22 Victory as my Kimber 1911, notwithstanding the obvious differences to be expected in the effectiveness of the rounds.

    In the home, that means they all need to be ready to either end the confrontation or help me fight my way to the HD shotgun.

    To that end, I keep the 22 in a ready-access location, but have been looking for appropriate ammo to stoke it with; your info is most helpful.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    Here shows several HV .22 tests from a rifle and the Aguila Antonio mentioned.....................

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpIm1otEG1E
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 22,632 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    What no;

    400px-Kilroy-like_BPF_circuit_diagram.PNG
    KILROY where ya been
    My new Signature
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 5,960 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    KILROY where ya been


    He was Mr. Chad over here, during rationing "wot no sugar?"

    cjp wrote: »

    ..... Oh dear God, I've admitted to liking something Limey.I'll never hear the end of this.

    Jayhawker wrote: »

    ...But seriously Shush....

     


  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 516 Senior Member
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,367 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    KILROY where ya been

    Hiding in the tank (circuit).
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,367 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Hey, I got a NAA in my shorts pocket right now loaded with .22 mags. I've never used the .22 LR cylinder. I hardly notice it, not the best choice, but I always have it on me and know I should use my LC9s (within reach), but it is what it is.

    And that one's a .22 short - the least powerful hangun in the world, blow your earlobe clean off! So ya gotta ask yourself one question, "Do I like to wear earrings?". Well, do ya, PUNK?! :rotflmao:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,545 Senior Member
    shush wrote: »
    What no;

    400px-Kilroy-like_BPF_circuit_diagram.PNG

    mention of the .410 bore?

    Just getting to it...I've heard somwhere that the .410 with copper washed shot is the ultimate man stopper......
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • SIGgalSIGgal Senior Member Posts: 1,582 Senior Member
    More people have been killed by .22 caliber bullets than any other caliber they say. I don't know too much on the subject of ballistics, and it certainly would not be my first choice for protection.. , but it is better than having nothing at all IMO. I was attacked very violently, and in my attack I don't think a .22 would have helped me immediately. Larger bore handguns cause much more damage and blood loss to stop a large person, where a .22 would have to be a well placed shot. When you are 100 pounds being attacked by a man who is 230 plus pounds, a well placed shot is almost non existent therefore requiring that shock from drastic damage and blood loss. Just my two cents.
    "Marriage is a hunting permit that allows you only one dear at a time"
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,367 Senior Member
    Just ask Jack Ruby.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 30,161 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Just ask Jack Ruby.

    That was a .38 he killed LHO with.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,518 Senior Member
    SIGgal wrote: »
    More people have been killed by .22 caliber bullets than any other caliber they say. I don't know too much on the subject of ballistics, and it certainly would not be my first choice for protection.. , but it is better than having nothing at all IMO. I was attacked very violently, and in my attack I don't think a .22 would have helped me immediately. Larger bore handguns cause much more damage and blood loss to stop a large person, where a .22 would have to be a well placed shot. When you are 100 pounds being attacked by a man who is 230 plus pounds, a well placed shot is almost non existent therefore requiring that shock from drastic damage and blood loss. Just my two cents.

    Whether .22 LR or .44 Mag., anything worth shooting is worth shooting more than once, or so I've been told.
    A double action revolver is a semiauto firearm. It fires once for every trigger pull.



  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I think it was a Colt Cobra.
    Or was it an Agent :uhm:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,335 Senior Member
    Detective Special, I read.

    Correction: Wiki says it was a Cobra.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 1,969 Senior Member
    Hornady makes a .22 magnum round in their critical defense line. Specifically for short barreled handguns.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,056 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Here ya go:

    attachment.php?attachmentid=10248&d=1457329856


    I think here may be more of those in evidence rooms than in homes.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,056 Senior Member
    SIGgal wrote: »
    More people have been killed by .22 caliber bullets than any other caliber they say. I don't know too much on the subject of ballistics, and it certainly would not be my first choice for protection.. , but it is better than having nothing at all IMO. I was attacked very violently, and in my attack I don't think a .22 would have helped me immediately. Larger bore handguns cause much more damage and blood loss to stop a large person, where a .22 would have to be a well placed shot. When you are 100 pounds being attacked by a man who is 230 plus pounds, a well placed shot is almost non existent therefore requiring that shock from drastic damage and blood loss. Just my two cents.


    Agreed.
    I think that anecdote is true if you lump .224 cal bullets into he colloquialism.
    I think any argument for .22LR as a defensive caliber are weak and tiresome, if the logic is tested with the inverse position: the reasons .22LR is bad for defense. I think negatives outweighs positives, if any--especially considering calibers only slightly larger than .22cal. The .32 SW Long comes to mind. Ideal? Nope, but heavier bullets at similar pistol velocities. .32 HR Magnum is also a contender, and so on.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 3,961 Senior Member
    I shoot 500 to 1000 rds of .22 a month. I can put 6 shots in almost the same hole in under 1.5 seconds at 15 yds with my rifles, a little bigger spread with pistols. I did 10 shots on 3 targets spread about 145 deg in 3 seconds this past weekend. The very last gun I would pick up for SD is a .22 unless it was a zombie hoard.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,471 Senior Member
    .22 LR for SD/HD

    I wouldn't want to be shot with one. You point anything at me and you have my undivided attention.
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