Releoading philosophies

2

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  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,709 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I guess my philosophy is pretty simple. As long as the accuracy is there, "faster is always better".

    Tip of the hat to Scootertrash.

    Mike
    Concur.

    I also like to achieve fast/flat without crushing recoil, hence my propensity to stick with a lighter cartridge that I can juice up to top speed with a smaller projectile that is heavy for the cartridge (e.g. .243 Win using 100 gr. bullet). Occasionally, I do things differently, like using the relatively slow 6x45 shooting 85 grain bullets from a .223 case. Similarly, I like using extremely slow patched, lead round balls out of my flintlocks. They top out just under 1500 fps.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,357 Senior Member
    Big bullets going fast, as fast as they can and still group.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,123 Senior Member
    The first cartridge I ever loaded was in 1960 for the .358 Win. in a Savage M-99EG and a M-70 Win., i used a Lyman "nutcracker" tool, I new nothing about reloading but read every book and article i could find, I quickly found out that what was normal in the M-70 was way to hot for the M-99. In the last 58 years i have reloaded for about 50 different cartridges including many wildcats, like some here i pushed the envelope by throating the chamber and even tried duplex loads. My goal has always been to get the best accuracy at the highest velocity without any signs of high pressure.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 3,961 Senior Member
    I used to load .40 at near max but could not group for crap . Backed off some groups improved. Now I load SD guns high to be used to recoil on those guns. Most of my shooting is light loads for competition so shooting some heavier recoil brings me back to reality.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,593 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    It is possible to have both high speed and high accuracy in a safe load. That’s not a bad thing.

    If one wants it.

    Yep. I'm looking first for flat spots on the graph. Then I usually load at the fastest "node" as Tennmike calls it, for most of the jacketed stuff. Since I pretty much gave up on known-distance match shooting in favor of plinking and hunting, "accuracy", can also be defined as a flatter trajectory helping you out with an imprecise range estimate.

    But there are exceptions. My .416 Rigby got the unique distinction of working DOWN from book minimums to find a safe load that wouldn't detach a retina. Magnum handguns I find the node where they're comfortable. Vintage stuff may get the node that's closest to duplicating the original.

    I guess my basic philosophy is "find what the gun likes".
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,467 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Again..........it’s possible to have both. If you want it. And if you want both...........why not have both?

    I get that many of you are happy with medium loads. Cool. Great.

    But, why do you all seem to incessantly look down upon those that want to push harder/faster/and to the wall? If you choose not to.......no worries. Why do you make it sound bad that I do?

    And why do you all think that you have to sacrifice accuracy when pushing for higher velocity? I have many loads that are considerably past book max, fire safely in my guns because I seat long, and shoot relative 1 hole groups?

    Why the seemed animosity towards those that seek both?

    Truer words have never been spoken.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 9,333 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Again..........it’s possible to have both. If you want it. And if you want both...........why not have both?

    I get that many of you are happy with medium loads. Cool. Great.

    But, why do you all seem to incessantly look down upon those that want to push harder/faster/and to the wall? If you choose not to.......no worries. Why do you make it sound bad that I do?

    And why do you all think that you have to sacrifice accuracy when pushing for higher velocity? I have many loads that are considerably past book max, fire safely in my guns because I seat long, and shoot relative 1 hole groups?

    Why the seemed animosity towards those that seek both?

    Sounds like you need to find your safe place. I don't see any animosity, just different tastes. It's a philosophy, not a rule. You can apply it however you want; it's personal. Fast and accurate is of course possible, but if you're punching paper, accuracy trumps. I've got an 8mm Mauser that might weigh six pounds and I don't want to shoot it "fast and accurate." Recoil is punishing even at factory levels (I'm a recoil wimp.) So I load down and shoot it with pleasure. Is it top notch accurate? Don't know and don't care. For me, it's a plinking round.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 5,627 Senior Member
    Dad has reloaded for as long as I can remember, but he never taught or passed any of that on to me. I did not start until a couple years ago, and taught myself...with a little help from y'all.

    I load for the pleasure of it, and to ensure the availability of loaded ammo to shoot. Only loading plinking handgun ammo so far. I use bullets I have load data for, and a variety of powders.

    My goal is just enough charge to function properly and deliver acceptable plinking accuracy. That always ends up just above the minimum published loads.
    I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.
    Groucho Marx
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 16,580 Senior Member
    Mine completely depends on the cartridge, it's uses and what firearm it's being fired from.

    30-06 for my bolt action, I find a load to launch the chosen bullet at a velocity to most closely match the Burris "ballisti-plex" reticle.

    6.5 Grendel for my AR: I load Amax/ELD for accuracy
    6.5 Grendel for my 799: I load Nosler Ballistic Tip as fast as accuracy allows

    Most of my 223 ammo: Max speed with acceptable accuracy I do use some "premium" bullets, depending on use (Nosler bonded for hunting. Hornady/Nosler match for accuracy)

    10mm: Max speed with 180 XTP (hunting) 135 EFMJ (carry)

    44 Mag: Max speed with cast bullets (310 FNGC)

    357Mag: Max speed with 164 LBT FNGC or Hornady XTP, Moderate velocity with 150 SWCHPGC or 164 SWCGC or 158SWC
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,337 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »

    But there are exceptions. My .416 Rigby got the unique distinction of working DOWN from book minimums to find a safe load that wouldn't detach a retina.

    I guess my basic philosophy is "find what the gun likes".

    Ha, yup! Guns not done yet, but I'm already looking for 404J data that duplicates original cordite loads, 400gr around 2100fps. I figure that's how it became the most used big bore of its time, that'll work for me until I can start moving up in speed
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 17,917 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    I guess my basic philosophy is "find what the gun likes".

    Whiz on the guns- - - -we're not slaves to them. Find what the shooter likes. If a masochist likes shoulder bruises and pain, so be it!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • bellcatbellcat Senior Member Posts: 1,171 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I guess my philosophy is pretty simple. As long as the accuracy is there, "faster is always better".

    Tip of the hat to Scootertrash.

    Mike
    Now there's a name I haven't heard in years!
    "Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." Mark Twain
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,703 Senior Member
    Praise God and Pass the Ammo!!! There is a lot more sanity here than I thought. If I load for a .30-06, I want a .30-06. If I wanted a .308 I would have bought a .308. If its known max velocity is 3,000 FPS with a 150 grain bullet then I want 3,000 FPS with a 150 grain bullet. If it is too stiff of Recoil, I'll go down a few Calibers. A .243 with a 100 Grain Bullet is good for a bit over 3,000 FPS. It will kill deer with that load out farther than my eyes will let me shoot, and the recoil will be substantially less than the .30-06. But as yet I'm still up for the 06.

    Also, Tenn Mike speaks the truth. There is usually a low velocity node and a high velocity node. Some people will start at the bottom of a load, and keep working a load up until it starts to widen the group and call it good. However, if you have room pressure wise, try keep working up until it will get accurate again. This should be your high node. Try going up farther if you still have room, paying close attention to pressure signs, sticky bolt, flat primers, split cases, etc. If you begin to encounter any of those, stop, back off a couple tenths of a grain of powder and call it good if it's still accurate. If not, go back to where it was last accurate. This will give you the hottest and most accurate load.

    Back in the 80s and 90s I had a Rugger 77 Varminter in .308. and this is what I did on advice of local bench shooters and sure enough you will see those nodes appear.
    Sometimes the lower node may be a hair more accurate than the upper node, but if you're shooting in a wind, the higher node might better buck the wind.
    If I'm hunting I want the highest velocity most accurate load.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    bellcat wrote: »
    Now there's a name I haven't heard in years!

    You may have missed it, but he passed away 7 years ago next month.

    Seems like yesterday.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,341 Senior Member
    I'm a simple man. For my hunting rifles I've chosen Sierra Game Kings. Why? They're accurate, they're cheap and they work. I researched different powders and chose what I wanted to try. I start with a min load and work up to the max until I find what gives the best accuracy and best velocity. There can be two sweet spots. I tinker with the seating to find that sweet spot then I don't mess around with things after that. My 280 uses IMR 4350 and the 308 Varget. When I practice I use the same loads. The only rifle I played with reduced loads for was a 450 Marlin. It was a thumper and I didn't need all the power it could deliver.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,703 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    You may have missed it, but he passed away 7 years ago next month.

    Seems like yesterday.

    Mike

    When I first came on this forum I didn't get along with Scooter. We were like hot grease and ice water. I was drunk a lot back then. Then I quit drinking and started appreciating his knowledge. We eventually became friendly. He gave me some good advice several times. Now I wish I would have had the pleasure of meeting him in person. His passing was very sad here on the forum. He IS missed.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    When I first came on this forum I didn't get along with Scooter. We were like hot grease and ice water. I was drunk a lot back then. Then I quit drinking and started appreciating his knowledge. We eventually became friendly. He gave me some good advice several times. Now I wish I would have had the pleasure of meeting him in person. His passing was very sad here on the forum. He IS missed.

    LOL!!! I remember those days.

    One night, after you two had been at about something, he pm'ed me and said he was ten seconds from gassing up his Harley, blasting down to Texas, and beating your butt to a pulp. Then, he'd enjoy the ride back to Colorado.

    I told him to go outside, eat a handful of snow and cool off.

    I guess he did.

    Yeah, I remember those days. LOL.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,703 Senior Member
    Freezer wrote: »
    I'm a simple man. For my hunting rifles I've chosen Sierra Game Kings. Why? They're accurate, they're cheap and they work. I researched different powders and chose what I wanted to try. I start with a min load and work up to the max until I find what gives the best accuracy and best velocity. There can be two sweet spots. I tinker with the seating to find that sweet spot then I don't mess around with things after that. My 280 uses IMR 4350 and the 308 Varget. When I practice I use the same loads. The only rifle I played with reduced loads for was a 450 Marlin. It was a thumper and I didn't need all the power it could deliver.

    Freezer, you speak wise words here. If you read my post I said about the same. I too am somewhat simple, if I can keep my old brain focused on subject. I have used Game Kings almost exclusively since I've been loading for my .270 Winchester. I used Sierra Pro Hunters too briefly back in the 1990s when my FFL friend ordered the wrong bullets. They both work well in my .270 Winchester and if I don't have Game Kings I'll use Pro Hunters. They're both accurate and cheap and their performance on game is about as good as I've seen.

    I love these Sierras because they penetrate well enough to make their way inside the skin and bones of medium game and then expand well and kill almost always on impact. I haven't had to do a lot of searching for game using them.

    I also shoot a .280 Remington. I had it built back in 1988-1989 and it was my first build, being on a 98 Mauser action with a 26 inch Shaw Barrel. I started off with it using factory ammo for several years. Then around 2007 sometime, I bought me a die set and started loading for it. I was going to order some 140 or 150 Grain Game kings for it, and then I got a deal from a friend on a couple hundred 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips.

    The Noslers work ok but I had one key failure with them in it that blew my confidence in them. I never found the deer but we saw where it crossed the fence into posted land. It left a hell of a blood trail. It looked like it was so frangible that it broke up shallow or on the hide causing a lot of bleeding but not penetrating into the vitals and anchoring down the deer. Now I use Game Kings in it and it is flawless.

    I used IMR 4831 in both the .270 and .280 for years, but I ran out of powder a couple years ago when about to load some hunting rounds for the .270 and the LGS only had H-4831. Now those are different powders, their only similarity being their number. Where I used 56.7 grains of the IMR, I can use 59+ grains of H for the same pressures and velocity. They both give me about 3075 FPS. I still have a lot of rounds loaded with IMR for the .280 and haven't switched to Hodgdons Yet. But it's nice to have two different loads worked up for versatility sake so I will be working up a load for the .280 with Hogdons also.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,338 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    You may have missed it, but he passed away 7 years ago next month.

    Seems like yesterday.

    Mike

    Wow. 7 years. Where has the time gone?
    I miss him.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,709 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    Wow. 7 years. Where has the time gone?
    I miss him.

    You ain't kidding. It feels like moments ago. You scored one cool artifact in the form of that turkey call he gave you. Such neat history behind that box call.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,338 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    My philosophy.....

    #1) Match the projectile to the intended target at your anticipated range.

    #2) Load to the accuracy you need at 100 yards farther than your anticipated range.

    #3) Then load that SOB to the highest velocity you can get while staying within the parameters of #2.

    Mike
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I guess my philosophy is pretty simple. As long as the accuracy is there, "faster is always better".

    Tip of the hat to Scootertrash.

    Mike

    Exactly.
    Well said.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,338 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    You ain't kidding. It feels like moments ago. You scored one cool artifact in the form of that turkey call he gave you. Such neat history behind that box call.

    Yeah. One of these days, I'll fulfill that promise.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    Hey, Luis......

    We killed a metric butt ton of pdogs that day, huh?

    By my best reckoning almost 1500.

    That day was a hoot. I remember as we were driving out with the sun setting behind us, the dead pdogs shining in the sunlight like beer cans on a public golf course after the 4th of July.

    That was a great day.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,709 Senior Member
    Oh, at least 1500. There were wet pops all over that field and in every direction. Good times, for sure. That was also the same day I had to disassemble your shooting bench to retrieve my scope dial :tooth:
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    I had forgotten that! It was a witch to dissemble with a Leatherman, t'warnt it?

    I also often recall your sideways "gaining altitude like a Saturn rocket" pdog that crossed my scope way faster than I could track it.

    I remember Cody's son asking why were we shooting toward his cows, and me telling him, "Because we're not going to hit your cows".

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 18,963 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Sounds like you need to find your safe place.................(I'm a recoil wimp.)

    Sounds like you need to toughen up.

    I can can play that game too.

    Some folks, like you, have a one track mind about how they do things (gun related) and can’t seem to fathom anything outside their parameters. A different style of shooting or a different design of gun, other than what they like and accept is foreign and oft times, wrong/unacceptable to them. Therefore, they talk down to or with distain to those with different likes or practices regarding firearms.

    You, are one of those folks. So, my question was........why?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,709 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I had forgotten that! It was a witch to dissemble with a Leatherman, t'warnt it?

    I also often recall your sideways "gaining altitude like a Saturn rocket" pdog that crossed my scope way faster than I could track it.

    I remember Cody's son asking why were we shooting toward his cows, and me telling him, "Because we're not going to hit your cows".

    Mike

    That was truly a banner day all around. The orbital pdog was just a huge bonus.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,341 Senior Member
    Snake, I read your post and appreciated it. Teach was one of two mentors when I started reloading over twenty years ago. We met on the long gone All Outdoors web site. I've loaded for over 18 different cartridges over those years but now load for 4. I've loaded so much ammo on my old Lee Anniversary Kit that I haven't had to reload in over three years. My son, who's as anal as a bench shooter, also made hunting ammo for me. I have a new portable bench system designed and ready to go when the need arises but for now the only need I have is more .22 lr.

    My son takes his hunting ammo to what I consider an extreme but I do like the accuracy he developed. After we used a comparator to determine the seating depth, we did a load work up with different powders. Next he played with seating depth. He took case prep to an extreme lath turning every case and checking it with a concentricity gauge. Every bullet is weighed and inspected before seating it over a charge that has been weighed and set with a trickle charger. They are then stored in a locking plastic case with a foam covered lid until needed.

    It drives him mad when I unload my Savage lever gun and put the rounds in a cartridge sock on the stock. Especially if I let one land on the ground!

    To each their own.
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,337 Senior Member
    Freezer I do the same with bullets. I weigh them all and separate by weight and see how big the deviation is, and load in groups of identical or near identical weight. No real reason other than I feel like it. Playing with Sierra bullets recently, I'm REALLY impressed with how uniform they are. My favorite elk bullets (FailSafe) not so much.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 3,971 Senior Member
    Freezer I do the same with bullets. I weigh them all and separate by weight and see how big the deviation is, and load in groups of identical or near identical weight. No real reason other than I feel like it. Playing with Sierra bullets recently, I'm REALLY impressed with how uniform they are. My favorite elk bullets (FailSafe) not so much.

    I used to do that, too. Even weighed primers and cases. Nothing wrong with it, and you can kill a lot of "snowed-in" time doing something other than TV.

    Eventually I discovered that lot-to-lot powder burn rates varied enough that my careful weight sorting was not much more than idle amusement.

    Nowadays I sharpen knives. More return on the investment.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
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