Boy Scouts of America Changes to BSA to accommodate girls

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Replies

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    That stuff is taught in BSA. It isn't girl stuff. Every man should know how to sew a button on. There is a cooking merit badge that includes meal prep and trips to the grocery store. You also MUST meal plan for camping trips unless you are in a trophy troop that lodge camps and the adults do all of the cooking.
    Yep, its hard work for the leaders to get the kids on board, but once you do, you can see where general Man skills develop into understanding.
    The reason you learn to build a fire is only partly so you can burn a hot dog. You HAVE to prepare, think ahead and plan. More so in adverse conditions. That is the skill in fire building.
    Yep.

    My experience with the BSA is limited. I was a cub scout back in the day, something happened, the program imploded and the pack broke up. There was no BSA program after that for 2 or 3 years.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    You teach your daughters to drive a stick so that they are never stranded somewhere with a drunk dumbass and can’t leave because they don’t know how to drive his truck.
    There's that!

    I've never understood the uniquely North American love affair with automatic transmissions. Like I told a new car dealer with whom I was having this argument: "So, you want me to pay $1,000 extra for it now, be bored to tears for 10 years, then sell it for $500 more than the manual model? That's a loss of $500, and I'd be BORED the whole time!"

    I get frustrated with Americans insisting on nothing but what I term "luxury vehicles". Even if a car is available without all that overpriced crap, finding one is darn near impossible. If the car's an import, they probably don't even bother importing a base model as nobody here would buy one - witness my beloved MBZ with its auto ****, and power everything, even power SEATS which I detest.

    Heck, most cars don't even need power brakes or steering, and I've driven trucks without either and gotten along just fine.

    No wonder we're heading for self-driving cars...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 8,500 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    cpj said:


    As far as learning to drive a stick? That's time better spent learning a useful skill. 
    You teach your kid to drive a stick so they can get a better deal on their first used cars. A used stick is considerably less expensive than a used car of the exact same model and package. The one my daughter bought was more than 20% less with less miles than the same with a auto trans.
    And its bragging points for them. And as a guy who pays insurance on a fleet, the other kids wont be driving their cars.
    That's a valid point. We got lucky and found the story book "old man car" for my
    kids first wheels.  It was an auto, thankfully. 
    Teaching my youngest to drive a manual? She be ripping through gears like a NASCAR driver. 
    Teaching my oldest? She would burn through one clutch per month, and still need tinned driven every where. 
    I taught my wife to drive a stick. She only went through one clutch.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,099 Senior Member
    The only standard we have is my truck. I guard it more carefully than I guard my  jewels. (It gets used more) 
    Its paid for, low miles for the year, and couldn't be replaced cheaply. I'm a nervous wreck when the wife drives it. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 672 Senior Member
    edited May 5 #36
    Had a girl friend years ago. One day her and her friend borrowed my old Dodge truck with the low granny/creeper first gear.👧oh I know how to drive a stick. I see the two young ladies bouncing down the road with my gear box whining like it's sick. I was not amused.😡
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    I've only ever lost one clutch - the '06 Toyota Matrix at about 120K. Why so low? The darn engine had ZERO bottom end...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,428 Senior Member
    cpj said:


    As far as learning to drive a stick? That's time better spent learning a useful skill. 
    You teach your kid to drive a stick so they can get a better deal on their first used cars. A used stick is considerably less expensive than a used car of the exact same model and package. The one my daughter bought was more than 20% less with less miles than the same with a auto trans.
    And its bragging points for them. And as a guy who pays insurance on a fleet, the other kids wont be driving their cars.

    way off the OP - All of my kids, Daughters and Sons, have had to show me they change a tire, check the fluids, and drive a stick to get their License.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,925 Senior Member
    cpj said:


    As far as learning to drive a stick? That's time better spent learning a useful skill. 
    You teach your kid to drive a stick so they can get a better deal on their first used cars. A used stick is considerably less expensive than a used car of the exact same model and package. The one my daughter bought was more than 20% less with less miles than the same with a auto trans.
    And its bragging points for them. And as a guy who pays insurance on a fleet, the other kids wont be driving their cars.

    way off the OP - All of my kids, Daughters and Sons, have had to show me they change a tire, check the fluids, and drive a stick to get their License.
    Better to have a skill and never need it than to need that skill and not have it.

    For me, I got a lot of emergency first aid training from the Navy, starting in 1972 aboard the ship(Navy was short on personnel and you got crosstrained whether you wanted to, or not) to when I retired from nuke power in 2003. In that time I have had to use that training three times, and I'm glad I knew what to do, how to do it, and had the training to do it. Same for firefighting; got that training, too, every year for 25 years. Call 911 after the situation is stable, or get a bystander running around like their hair is on fire to do that call. First things first!

    Boy Scouts are in some uncharted territory here. They have lowering membership and need money. The Girl Scouts could easily implement the programs the BSA has that they want if they were really serious about it. Allowing transgenders in BOTH programs started this whole mess, and it's come full circle. Neither organization will benefit from the mess some of the ****, feminists, and froot loops are pushing on both. Sad to see that come to pass, but the 'grownups' are killing the programs for feel good political crap.
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,092 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    You teach your daughters to drive a stick so that they are never stranded somewhere with a drunk dumbass and can’t leave because they don’t know how to drive his truck.
    There's that!

    I've never understood the uniquely North American love affair with automatic transmissions. Like I told a new car dealer with whom I was having this argument: "So, you want me to pay $1,000 extra for it now, be bored to tears for 10 years, then sell it for $500 more than the manual model? That's a loss of $500, and I'd be BORED the whole time!"

    I get frustrated with Americans insisting on nothing but what I term "luxury vehicles". Even if a car is available without all that overpriced crap, finding one is darn near impossible. If the car's an import, they probably don't even bother importing a base model as nobody here would buy one - witness my beloved MBZ with its auto ****, and power everything, even power SEATS which I detest.

    Heck, most cars don't even need power brakes or steering, and I've driven trucks without either and gotten along just fine.

    No wonder we're heading for self-driving cars...

    Consider all the people commuting to work having to brake, clutch, and shift for an hour sitting in traffic. Same consideration with self driving cars. Like everything else, cars are market driven with many federal safety requirements. 

    There are plenty manual trannies available...most are "fun-type" vehicles. Jeeps, sporty cars, and motorcycles. 


    On topic...BSA has headed towards political correctness for years. The "trapping badge" was pulled a few years ago. Many have moved away from shooting skills as well. This does not surprise me one bit. 


    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 4,092 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    You teach your daughters to drive a stick so that they are never stranded somewhere with a drunk dumbass and can’t leave because they don’t know how to drive his truck.
    There's that!

    I've never understood the uniquely North American love affair with automatic transmissions. Like I told a new car dealer with whom I was having this argument: "So, you want me to pay $1,000 extra for it now, be bored to tears for 10 years, then sell it for $500 more than the manual model? That's a loss of $500, and I'd be BORED the whole time!"

    I get frustrated with Americans insisting on nothing but what I term "luxury vehicles". Even if a car is available without all that overpriced crap, finding one is darn near impossible. If the car's an import, they probably don't even bother importing a base model as nobody here would buy one - witness my beloved MBZ with its auto ****, and power everything, even power SEATS which I detest.

    Heck, most cars don't even need power brakes or steering, and I've driven trucks without either and gotten along just fine.

    No wonder we're heading for self-driving cars...

    Consider all the people commuting to work having to brake, clutch, and shift for an hour sitting in traffic. Same consideration with self driving cars. Like everything else, cars are market driven with many federal safety requirements. 

    There are plenty manual trannies available...most are "fun-type" vehicles. Jeeps, sporty cars, and motorcycles. 


    On topic...BSA has headed towards political correctness for years. The "trapping badge" was pulled a few years ago. Many have moved away from shooting skills as well. This does not surprise me one bit. 


    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    edited May 6 #42
    CaliFFL said:

    Consider all the people commuting to work having to brake, clutch, and shift for an hour sitting in traffic. Same consideration with self driving cars. Like everything else, cars are market driven with many federal safety requirements. 

    As I did for many years. What's the problem?

    I know well that my frustration with our automotive market here in North America is market driven - basic transportation doesn't sell and really hasn't since the model T. Americans are a bunch of wimps when it comes to automobiles, luxury is king. Even when a given car *is* available with a manual transmission, its a fight to buy one. Between automatics, and stupid "technology" in cars, I'm beginning to think Wambli's right - might as well have self driving cars as most Americans stopped driving decades ago! "Hang up and drive!"

    Heck, our last new car search in '14 ended with a Fiat Pop. A lot of fun to drive with a WONDERFUL manual transmission - the smoothest I've ever experienced. We drove a lot of cars, but didn't drive any Fords - so stuffed with electronics that we just walked away. Even the Pop has too much crap on it, but is better than most.

    Don't get me started on "Packages" - I want to buy a car like the rest of the world is reputed to do: by LINE ITEM.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,866 Senior Member
    edited May 6 #43
    zorba said:

    zorba said:


    I've never understood the uniquely North American love affair with automatic transmissions. Like I told a new car dealer with whom I was having this argument: "So, you want me to pay $1,000 extra for it now, be bored to tears for 10 years, then sell it for $500 more than the manual model? That's a loss of $500, and I'd be BORED the whole time!"

    I get frustrated with Americans insisting on nothing but what I term "luxury vehicles". Even if a car is available without all that overpriced crap, finding one is darn near impossible. If the car's an import, they probably don't even bother importing a base model as nobody here would buy one - witness my beloved MBZ with its auto ****, and power everything, even power SEATS which I detest.

    Heck, most cars don't even need power brakes or steering, and I've driven trucks without either and gotten along just fine.

    No wonder we're heading for self-driving cars...

    zorba said:
    CaliFFL said:

    Consider all the people commuting to work having to brake, clutch, and shift for an hour sitting in traffic. Same consideration with self driving cars. Like everything else, cars are market driven with many federal safety requirements. 

    As I did for many years. What's the problem?

    I know well that my frustration with our automotive market here in North America is market driven - basic transportation doesn't sell and really hasn't since the model T. Americans are a bunch of wimps when it comes to automobiles, luxury is king. Even when a given car *is* available with a manual transmission, its a fight to buy one. Between automatics, and stupid "technology" in cars, I'm beginning to think Wambli's right - might as well have self driving cars as most Americans stopped driving decades ago! "Hang up and drive!"

    Heck, our last new car search in '14 ended with a Fiat Pop. A lot of fun to drive with a WONDERFUL manual transmission - the smoothest I've ever experienced. We drove a lot of cars, but didn't drive any Fords - so stuffed with electronics that we just walked away. Even the Pop has too much crap on it, but is better than most.

    Don't get me started on "Packages" - I want to buy a car like the rest of the world is reputed to do: by LINE ITEM.
    Zorba, depends on what you want to do with your vehicle. I shifted gears for 50 some odd years, I've had enough of that form of entertainment. Besides, if I've got a car with decent HP under the hood I want the ability to smoke people's doors as we used to say back in high school. And if you're cranking on your mush box manually while my hydro whatever is shifting through the gears at the perfect pre-arranged RPM and I go by you like you're still at the line jacking it up, then I'm happy. However, ya gotta have the right Auto Trans.

    Heres a slightly outdated example; Back in 62 my dad bought a 62 Pontiac Catalina 389 2 barrel, 270 or something HP. The thing had torque out the Gazoo. However, up until 62 Pontiac put the old Dual Control Hydramatic in all its cars.That was a hell of a transmission. It locked up like a manual and would smoke the tires right off the rims.

    But in 62, the bean counters at GM must have gotten Pontiac's ear and they put a cheap ass three speed slipomatic called the Roto Hydramatic, in the Catalina and interestingly enough the new Grand Prix.They kept putting the old 4 speed auto in the Star Chief and Bonneville. That stupid 3 speed auto transmission was a real dog. It wasn't near as solid (It seemed to lose a lot due to slippage) and it had a suck hole gear ratio. If you stomped it in low, the engine's pistons were swapping holes at 35 MPH. The old 4 speed hydro would wind up to over 55 MPH in low. Also, when the three speed would shift from 1st to second it was almost like going from 1st to 3rd with a 3 on tree. Anyway, that old 4 speed Hydro would run circles around most other automatics. I don't think you'd have been bored with something like that. And some of these newer transmissions are stronger and have 8 to 10 forward gears and shift crisp and solid.

    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    That brings up another fact: I'm not driving on a racetrack, and neither are you!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,866 Senior Member
    edited May 6 #45
    zorba said:
    That brings up another fact: I'm not driving on a racetrack, and neither are you!
    I was really referring to our youth, But I still want the ability.

    Tire smoke makes me high.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,866 Senior Member
    edited May 6 #46
    jbp-ohio said:
    cpj said:
    cpj said:


    As far as learning to drive a stick? That's time better spent learning a useful skill. 
    You teach your kid to drive a stick so they can get a better deal on their first used cars. A used stick is considerably less expensive than a used car of the exact same model and package. The one my daughter bought was more than 20% less with less miles than the same with a auto trans.
    And its bragging points for them. And as a guy who pays insurance on a fleet, the other kids wont be driving their cars.
    That's a valid point. We got lucky and found the story book "old man car" for my
    kids first wheels.  It was an auto, thankfully. 
    Teaching my youngest to drive a manual? She be ripping through gears like a NASCAR driver. 
    Teaching my oldest? She would burn through one clutch per month, and still need tinned driven ever\where. 
    I taught my wife to drive a stick. She only went through one clutch.
    Clutches are different nowadays. Hydraulic Clutches are much more durable. Their spring tension is much greater now so they don't slip, But you don't realize it because like brakes, they're applied through a hydraulic cylinder. Makes a big difference. My old 70 Road Runner of course had a plain old fashion clutch and went through a clutch every 6 months.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 1,631 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    You teach your daughters to drive a stick so that they are never stranded somewhere with a drunk dumbass and can’t leave because they don’t know how to drive his truck.

    Heck, most cars don't even need power brakes or steering, and I've driven trucks without either and gotten along just fine.

    No wonder we're heading for self-driving cars...
    I had to at least admire a bit of Ford thinking. You can buy a Focus ST (250hp turbo four), but you CANNOT buy it in with an Automatic. 
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 20,866 Senior Member
    Tell me how the hell this Coed Scout thread got into cars!!!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    edited May 6 #49
    Tugar said:
    I had to at least admire a bit of Ford thinking. You can buy a Focus ST (250hp turbo four), but you CANNOT buy it in with an Automatic. 
    That's the opposite of their thinking years back - and kudos to them! We drove Fords for years - my wife insisted on a T-Bird in about 1992. I was embarrassed to be seen in the thing, being the envy of every 15 year old boy isn't my idea of a car I want. I will say it had a very nice 6 cylinder engine, coupled to an automatic, of course. The only way you could get a manual in a T-Bird was to get the gas guzzling V-8 - which I think may still be true with Dodges nowadays.

    Which does remind me of what I told a room full of sales droids at the dealership: We were there LATE on a Sunday, just before closing time, sitting in T-Birds in the showroom. "What do you think?" asked one. "Its a nice enough car, but just not my style" I replied. "What's your style?" "Oh, how about a '48 deuce and a half flatbed Dodge with a 2 speed rear end?" They goggled!

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
    Tell me how the hell this Coed Scout thread got into cars!!!
    Typical thread drift...


    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 21,925 Senior Member




    Getting thread back on track.............................................................. Happy wink emoticon
    Non Sibi Sed Patriage (Not for self, but country)



  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,482 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    zorba said:
    You teach your daughters to drive a stick so that they are never stranded somewhere with a drunk dumbass and can’t leave because they don’t know how to drive his truck.
    There's that!

    I've never understood the uniquely North American love affair with automatic transmissions. Like I told a new car dealer with whom I was having this argument: "So, you want me to pay $1,000 extra for it now, be bored to tears for 10 years, then sell it for $500 more than the manual model? That's a loss of $500, and I'd be BORED the whole time!"

    I get frustrated with Americans insisting on nothing but what I term "luxury vehicles". Even if a car is available without all that overpriced crap, finding one is darn near impossible. If the car's an import, they probably don't even bother importing a base model as nobody here would buy one - witness my beloved MBZ with its auto ****, and power everything, even power SEATS which I detest.

    Heck, most cars don't even need power brakes or steering, and I've driven trucks without either and gotten along just fine.

    No wonder we're heading for self-driving cars..


    On topic...BSA has headed towards political correctness for years. The "trapping badge" was pulled a few years ago. Many have moved away from shooting skills as well. This does not surprise me one bit. 


    It may be the lack of qualified merit badge counselors.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,010 Senior Member
    I learned a lot along the way to Eagle. Looking back, I'm finally proud Richard Nixon signed my certificate. Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,482 Senior Member
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,078 Senior Member
    Wife had to go to the scout store last night to get some awards, and saw that they were now stocking Cub Scout "Skorts".  Yes, they are short coverage shorts/Skirt combo that seem to be absolutely worthless for any outdoor scouting activity. 
    https://www.scoutshop.org/cub-scouts-girls-skort.html

    No pockets, very little coverage to protect from bugs, brambles, cactus, etc..  and very little utility.  Equal programs, my ***

    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 15,688 Senior Member
    Too damn short. And yea, pocketses would be almost essential in such a garment. Skorts usually combine the worst features of skirts and shorts and the best of neither.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
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