308 Win AR build - thoughts

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Replies

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,895 Senior Member
    I might have been ruined on A2 style guns at a young age.  The first AR I every fired was a fixed stock, fixed carry handle Colt.  The guy had a scope mounted on top of the carry handle.  Between the strangeness of having a scope that high above the stock and the "srpong" sound in the stock, I just wasn't really impressed.  The first time I fired an M4 style gun with adjustable stock and holographic sight, I thought "That's much better than that other contraption!"  From then on, I've stuck with what I like.  That being said, I'm strongly leaning toward a fixed stock on this build. I do like the looks of it and it makes sense that it would function better at the range and in the field.  Provided I can keep that hollow stock, buffer spring noise out of it...  I know it doesn't make a difference in function at all.  It's just a preference.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,895 Senior Member
    Besides, if I went fixed stock and decided it's not for me, I can always take it off and install a new buffer tube and stock.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,519 Senior Member
    I can't seem to post a response to CPJ. It won't "take."
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,385 Senior Member
    horselips said:
    I can't seem to post a response to CPJ. It won't "take."
    I’ll save you the typing. 



    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,519 Senior Member
    I watch Gunbroker auctions all the time. I've seen DPMS .308 Oracles sold in the fives. The accuracy comment for LR308 models I got from American Rifleman. They got groups as small as .68 inch. 
    Google the test for the whole story

    If you simply must spend more money, consider the G II model. NRA testers achieved groups as small as .30"
    Averages were a little larger -.47" for 3 groups, and .8" for 9 groups, but to get sub half-minute of angle accuracy from an out-of-the-box rifle shooting off-the-shelf factory ammunition is impressive. Gunbroker has these with starting bids as low as $850. Expect them to close around $1200-ish, a bargain for that kind of performance. Go to Gunbroker and shop till you drop. 

    I've read lots of tests of rifles costing much more from many manufacturers, that don't perform nearly as well. I would imagine that even the most conscientious home builder, using the best components would have a tough time beating sub-half-minute accuracy with factory ammo. I've never built any guns myself, but it seems quite a hassle for uncertain, unpredictable results when the sure thing is available at such reasonable cost. And it comes with a warranty.

    But then, I have drawn the plans for 2 houses, 3 restaurants, and 2 retail stores I've owned and operated over the decades of my working life. It is a real thrill to see the builders create the reality exactly as you imagined it in your mind's eye. Perhaps building your own AR10 might be just as fun and rewarding. 




  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 5,935 Senior Member
    edited June 12 #37
    Jay. I have two of the LuthAR fixed stocks without the adjustable cheek pieces. I really enjoy using them. The flat at the back is plenty long to get on a rear bag, although it is rather narrow. The stocks come with two, maybe more (I am not going to look now), spots for QD sling mounts. 

    That platform definitely needs an adjustable gas block, my LR308 will digest any .308 Winchester ammo now. Before the only ammo it would run without double feeds was 7.62 NATO pressure. 

    Horse, I chose the components of my LR 308 and assembled it myself. Upper and lower. The only assembly related problem I have had was installing the gas tube upside down the first time. My rifles upper is DPMS parts, just not a catalog option (for an assembled upper) when I bought them. It shoots sub 1/2 MOA with Federal American Eagle 7.62 NATO 168gr OTM. At least when the trigger nut is tight.

    Maybe for you the Oracle is the right option. For lots of other folks that rifle doesn’t have the parts that we want. Crap trigger, uncomfortable adjustable stock, short crappy hand guard, non adjustable gas block.
    Why pay for parts you don’t want? Did you select a bog standard building, have it built and then remodel half of it to get what you wanted? 
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,895 Senior Member

    Thanks for the input on those stocks.  Just looking at the pic, the one I liked to appeared to have some potential.  But then, that's just pics on the internet.  Guess I have about a month or so to decide which way it'll go.  If I made my mind up right now, it's bound to change tomorrow anyway.

    I agree with you on building rather than buying.  Nothing wrong with buying one of the rack, if that's what someone wants.  But to buy one off the rack that had the features and parts I want, it would end up being as much as I'll spend building one.  Especially when you consider that around $400 out of my $1500 budget is for the optic and mount alone.  That leaves $1100 for the rifle.  I don't consider that too bad for a decent, complete gun with an adjustable gas block, free float handguard and not built with really cheap parts.  The only upgrades it'll get after the build will be a trigger and possibly a brake.

  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,519 Senior Member
    I watch Gunbroker auctions all the time. I've seen .308 DPMS Oracles sold for in the fives. The accuracy comment comes from American Rifleman testing - they got groups as small as .68". 
    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2009/5/19/dpms-panther-arms-ap4-lr-308/

    If you simply must spend more money, consider the Gen II AR from DPMS. I quote from the NRA testers,"With the Black Hills 168-gr. load, the first group measured 0.30". That was the best, but the average of three groups was 0.47". The average for all nine groups was 0.80". From an out-of-the-box AR-L shooting factory ammunition, that is very impressive accuracy." Gunbroker has these with a starting bid at $850. I would expect that to close at around $1200-ish. Still, for .30" accuracy, a very good deal. 
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/770380062

    I've read lots of tests of much more expensive AR10 platforms from a lot of other manufacturers, and seldom do any shoot this well. Under half-minute of angle, way under, is tough to beat by any home-built parts gun.
    I've never built any guns myself, but it seems to me to be quite a hassle for uncertain, unpredictable results, when the sure thing is available for such reasonable moolah. 

    I'm a floor plan freak. I've drawn my own plans for everything from tombs to yachts. I've had the thrill of seeing 2 houses, 3 restaurants and 2 retail stores built to my designs (all residences and businesses I've owned over the years). You ought to see the plans I have iBuilding your own AR10 just might be as much fun, and rewarding enough to overlook any potential performance issues, which may or may not even occur. 

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,895 Senior Member

    Optic and mount for this build has been ordered.

    https://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-strike-eagle-scope-1-6x24-ar-bdc-reticle.html?_iv_code=VX-RS-SE-1624-1-SE-1624-1-KIT1

    Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24 with one of their cantilever mounts.

    It'll be about a month from now before I plan to have the rest of the stuff to build the gun.

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,606 Senior Member
    I like that scope a lot.  Great choice
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,895 Senior Member
    Thanks. After doing a little research and shopping it seems like a pretty decent scope for the money. For $369 with mount and free 2 day shipping, I’ll take a shot with it. Having 1x on the bottom end should work well for fast sight pictures at closer range. And 6x should be plenty of zoom for what I want to do. And the bdc reticle can be used with the 308 cartridge once I have settled on a load, get ballistics info and do some math and stuff to get the yardage values and confirm them. Thats the thought process, anyway. 
  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 1,664 Senior Member
    Put that scope on a 223 I built a while back - really like it.

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/discussion/35035/new-ar-build#latest


  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,895 Senior Member
    JKP said:
    Put that scope on a 223 I built a while back - really like it.

    http://forums.gunsandammo.com/discussion/35035/new-ar-build#latest



    Nice.  Guess I missed your thread on that one.  I also had a concern about the 1/2 MOA adjustment on this scope.  Hopefully It'll work fine for me.


    It looks like I have a trigger for this build now.  Turned out my buddy who I thought had a Geissele trigger he said he didn't need no has a use for that trigger.  But he did say he has a brand new Larue MBT trigger he doesn't need.  $40.  Told him I'll take it.  That will give me something to start with.

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,200 Senior Member
    👍🏻
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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