We are raising a Nation of Dumb

[bellcat]

I get part of your point.

My apologies to those of you with 'inner city' roots. If you drop out the scores from our so called inner city' schools, our test scores and performances rank among the best in the world. Our other 1st world nations do not test the same pool as we do. We test them all.....and post them all.

NCLB.....was a poor plan. It was once again geared at doing something for our 'inner city' schools and teachers. And that's not all true, as there are many outstanding teachers and students that come from poverty stricken ghettos. But as a whole....

As a life long educator, I feel the problem lies with the fact that no one, mostly the family, will let anyone fail. We have spirit awards, and participation awards, and we all get medals and trophies, and no 'F's on report cards, etc etc

The first time someone gets dumped by a girl, fired from a job, picked on at school, etc They have no tools how to handle it. Throw in more media attention than the Olympics, you have a formula for disaster.

JMHO

Our schools need some improvements, and we're working at it, but almost every teacher I know wants accountability. We get over ruled by helicopter parents, we have administrators who won't kick a kid out because they dont want to lose state aid.....and you can see the picture. Everybody passes, honor rolls are huge, and then they fail.....

[Teach]

I got reamed pretty regularly by administrators for handing out F's when they were an appropriate grade, particularly when I torpedoed a soccer star's eligibility once! On a couple of occasions, grades were changed over my objections, but they learned pretty quickly that I kept pretty bulletproof records, and didn't mind making a stink if necessary. I could usually be a bigger pain in the butt to a principal than most parents could.

For the most part, I found that public school administrators come from the ranks of the failed teachers who can't make the cut in the classroom, but they're good at butt-kissing the next level of supervision. There's an old saying in the Nashville system that's only partly said in jest- - - - -" A principal is a coach with two losing seasons!"

Jerry

[DoctorWho]

"My apologies to those of you with 'inner city' roots. If you drop out the scores from our so called inner city' schools, our test scores and performances rank among the best in the world. Our other 1st world nations do not test the same pool as we do. We test them all.....and post them all. "

You are not much of an "Educator" in any case, when I was in school I was reading at a much higher level that anyone in My class, I read for whom the bell tolls at the age of 9, pretty raw stuff at that age, I knew how to use a dictionary to look up definitions and pronunciation, a student also needs to do their part in order to pass tests, the teacher is not to blame if a student can't pass tests.

[alphasigmookie]

I get part of your point.

My apologies to those of you with 'inner city' roots. If you drop out the scores from our so called inner city' schools, our test scores and performances rank among the best in the world. Our other 1st world nations do not test the same pool as we do. We test them all.....and post them all.

NCLB.....was a poor plan. It was once again geared at doing something for our 'inner city' schools and teachers. And that's not all true, as there are many outstanding teachers and students that come from poverty stricken ghettos. But as a whole....

As a life long educator, I feel the problem lies with the fact that no one, mostly the family, will let anyone fail. We have spirit awards, and participation awards, and we all get medals and trophies, and no 'F's on report cards, etc etc

The first time someone gets dumped by a girl, fired from a job, picked on at school, etc They have no tools how to handle it. Throw in more media attention than the Olympics, you have a formula for disaster.

JMHO

Our schools need some improvements, and we're working at it, but almost every teacher I know wants accountability. We get over ruled by helicopter parents, we have administrators who won't kick a kid out because they dont want to lose state aid.....and you can see the picture. Everybody passes, honor rolls are huge, and then they fail.....

A friendly note here, but you might want to be careful with the way you talk about 'inner city' schools. With your unnecessary use of quotes some perceptive liberal might detect some racial overtones in your post. I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, just trying to fulfill my role as token liberal and point out how other liberals might interpret your post.

As for your general point I do think there is something to the fact that we do try to educate all our citizens no matter how poor or poorly equipped they are to succeed. This almost certainly pulls down our averages, but it also provides opportunity to a lot of people even if many of them don't take full advantage of it.

I also believe there are multiple subcultures within this country that do not value education and academic persuit in general and they are not isolated to urban areas. While most of them are very different, the one thing they do have in common is that they tend to be prevalent in poorer areas. A lot if it I believe is a reaction to failure. Far too many people in this country seem to think it's better to not try than to try and fail.

[Bigslug]

I think we have pretty broad agreement that increased parental involvement is a big part of the solution. The question is how do we achieve that.

I say make parents pay more of their money directly for their kid's education - not through some random bit of their taxes, I mean actually writing out a physical check to the school district. Much like fining parent when their kid spray-paints gang symbols on somebody's wall, taking a hit to the pocketbook will give them more incentive to become involved in their "investment"

My wife and are not parents, and have no interest in becoming so. Every election, I vote against California's ballot measures that aim to raise taxes to pay for schools on the logic that "YOUR kid should not be MY problem". For one of my co-workers, whose kids are in a private school, it's even worse - #1, he's already paying a small fortune to school his children, #2, he's reduced the burden on the public education system by the number of his two kids, and #3, he's paying for other folk's kids in the public education system through his taxes. Do either of us get a tax break for not contributing to the problem? Not hardly. One of the consequences of breedin' 'em is feedin' 'em, and that needs to be FOREMOST on the minds of anybody with the slightest inklings of a sex drive. We need to take away the safety nets for those that won't acknowledge this. It's high time we let Darwin do his job.

[bellcat]

"My apologies to those of you with 'inner city' roots. If you drop out the scores from our so called inner city' schools, our test scores and performances rank among the best in the world. Our other 1st world nations do not test the same pool as we do. We test them all.....and post them all. "

You are not much of an "Educator" in any case, when I was in school I was reading at a much higher level that anyone in My class, I read for whom the bell tolls at the age of 9, pretty raw stuff at that age, I knew how to use a dictionary to look up definitions and pronunciation, a student also needs to do their part in order to pass tests, the teacher is not to blame if a student can't pass tests.

I'm happy that you read at that level when you were nine. We still have students who do that. Many students. From all over the country.

And how you say 'I'm not much of an educator?' I'm not sure how this aligns with your comments. You have no idea of my ability as an educator.

If my inner city comments bothered you, or anybody, I apologize. But I do know how to read test results. I also believe test results are a poor way to judge schools, students or teachers.

Bellcat