Provenance of a Webley revolver

[Hakkonen]

So, there's a listing on Armslist on which I'm considering making an offer:
http://www.armslist.com/posts/878440...reat-condition

I have a thing for top-break revolvers, and a Webley has been on my list for quite some time. I have a few questions, though:
1) Was there ever a Webley made with a 2-inch barrel? I can only find mention of four- and six-inch barrels. The barrel having been shortened (which I suspect it has) isn't a dealbreaker, but I like to know going in.

2) The seller claims the nickel plating is the original finish, which I find odd for a military gun. I guess it could have been a presentation model or something, but still. How likely is it?

3) How expensive and hard to find is ammo for a Webley? I don't know yet if this is a .455 or .38/200 model.

[LMLarsen]

I recall seeing pics of Webleys with short barrels in an article years ago about Bulldogs, but can't recall if they were original or custom.

Other than that, I got nothing but a pancake on my head...

[dld]

back in the 80's I had one with a short barrel

[Bigslug]

Short barreled Webleys do exist - they're just not as common as the longer military variants (not all Webleys were military guns). Front sight housing is milled as part of the barrel - kinda hard to out that back on a cutoff.

There WERE nickel Webleys. Iain Harrison had on on Top Shot a season or two back. Nickel was the stainless of the day, and people didn't like cleaning guns any more back then than they do now. How common? I dunno. Is that one original? I dunno. Pretty sure the grips aren't, however.

Ammo: I suspect that gun is a .455. There were MKIV's in both calibers. Oddly, the .455 MKIV came first, followed by the .455 MKVI of WWI fame, and then the .38 MKIV came out shortly before WWII. I haven't researched the gory details of that yet - probably another one of those convoluted British "mark" issues that plagues the Enfield rifle collectors.

AAAAANYWAY for a .455, ammo's out there from Fiocchi, but you're really going to want to handload for it. Brass is available - sporadically - from Hornady (I got mine through Russ Haydon's), various bullet molds are available (including an authentic hollow-base one from RCBS - I LOVE that mold and its bullet, but it's a single cavity and therefor production is slow), and Lee makes good carbide dies cheap. One thing to be aware of - Hornady brass uses large primers, which are closer (identical?) to the originals, while the Fiocchi ammo comes loaded with smalls. The tiny powder charges involved don't NEED a large primer, but you'll want to stay consistent.

The .38/200 is nothing more than the .38S&W loaded with a 200 grain bullet, so if you don't mind giving up a little authenticity, you can shoot factory ammo in the 150 grain range. Not super common, but not super rare either. Again, you're better off rolling your own. Cartridges of the World claims bullet diameter of .359. I am using a cast 200 grainer sized to .361" - early experiments show very promising results with no leading whatsoever.

At any rate, PM me if it follows you home, and I can steer you through some of the loading specifics.

[Gene L]

They made civilian versions of the MK IV, but an original 2" would be rare and a spurless, nickel one would be rarer still. It looks like a gaffe to me, but a well-done one.

The 38/200 is simply the 38 S&W with a 200 gr. bullet.

[Big Al1]

From looking at the picture, the size of the bore looks 45. But the nickel plate, short barrel, and bobed hammer really turn me off!! Not to mention the grips and no lanyard loop. Makes it look like a pimp special!!!
I'd hold out for an original military model in .455. I have a Colt New Sevice in .455 and it's fun to shoot. Ammo is avaialable from Fiochhi, dies from Lee, and bullets from Western Bullet Co. Ammo cost was about $35 a box for 50.

[Jayhawker]

Makes it look like a pimp special!!!

Don't be a hater...pimps back then needed protection too....

[Hakkonen]

AAAAANYWAY for a .455, ammo's out there from Fiocchi, but you're really going to want to handload for it.

Great info, thanks. I've never handloaded before; how much additional investment am I looking at? It's not a dealbreaker in principle, but I'm not exactly Richie Rich over here, you know?

[DoctorWho]

They made civilian versions of the MK IV, but an original 2" would be rare and a spurless, nickel one would be rarer still. It looks like a gaffe to me, but a well-done one.

The 38/200 is simply the 38 S&W with a 200 gr. bullet.

I seem to recall seeing a Webley New Police or Constabulary model with a 2 inch barrel.



And here it is.

[shush]

Looks like a chopped Enfield No 2 Mk I* tanker.

[Gene L]

I agree. I couldn't find any Webleys that had spurless hammers.

[Wambli Ska]

Yep definitely looks like an Enfield. Here is an Enfield "Tanker"

And another with a short barrel:


Just read in another site that the short barreled ones were made for the RAF in WWII.

[Teach]

Here's mine- - - -definitely a chop job before I did a little repair and fitted a new front sight blade:



Jerry

[Bigslug]

Great info, thanks. I've never handloaded before; how much additional investment am I looking at? It's not a dealbreaker in principle, but I'm not exactly Richie Rich over here, you know?

Owning .455's puts you in that class where if you aren't a reloader, you might as well be a museum curator. The Fiocchi ammo isn't common, nor is it cheap.
You can probably be rolling for comfortably under $500 with a really basic setup composed primarily of Lee gear. You can use store-bought .45ACP bullets with no issues at all, though part of the sex appeal of the .455 Webley is that elongated bullet that looks like it was lifted from the top of an ICBM.

Kinda sad really - the round fell out of favor because of the rainbow trajectory (265 grains at about 650 fps), but for the intended purpose of SD at kissing distance, it's hard to top.

[horselips]

I've owned several Webleys over the eons, and my current one is a rather minty MK.VI made By Enfield in 1926, the last year of productin for this model. I deliberately sought a gun with the cylinder shaved to accept .45ACP on moon clips. It is my desk gun, and if the Zulus ever come over the sandbags, it's the handgun to have. Webleys are the ultimate combat revolvers.

[Bigslug]

I deliberately sought a gun with the cylinder shaved to accept .45ACP on moon clips.

My first MKVI is one of those. They're a valid option if you've got the .45 Webley jones, as a lot of them were so converted for greater sales appeal in the States. You probably don't want to run full-power ACP - - either dial back your charge or shoot ammo with lighter slugs. I worked up a load with Trail Boss (for volume) using the RCBS bullets that duplicated the military load - though I must say that the long Webley bullet on top of a .45 ACP case is a STRANGE looking thing.

If money's tight and you GOTTA have a Webley, the .38S&W MKIV will cost less to buy, and can be fed with sort-of easy to find ammo. Starline makes excellent brass for the round that is substantially cheaper than .455, and Lee makes the same highly affordable set of NICE carbide dies. Pretty economical to load for too - 2.3 grains of Titegroup generates the military velocity of 630fps with 200 grains of slug.

[stepmac]

I seem to recall seeing a Webley New Police or Constabulary model with a 2 inch barrel.



And here it is.

I held one of these a few weeks ago. It was for sale in a local pawn shop. It was nickled and looked to be about 44 caliber. Price was $350. The short barrel looked original to me. It was not a top break, but loaded like a Colt SAA.