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Thread: First rifle recommendations!

  1. #61
    Senior Member orchidman's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    At such a good priced round the .243 guns are scarce around me. The ammo is plentiful but every store always steers towards .223 or 22-250. Why are they so much more popular than .243?
    There is neither rhyme nor reason when it comes to calibre choice...............Look at all the people that own 270's
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by orchidman View Post
    There is neither rhyme nor reason when it comes to calibre choice...............Look at all the people that own 270's
    If they all pretty much do the same in each category why is there so many damn choices :). You'd think everyone would just buy whatever has the cheapest ammo. Guess everyone just likes different choices? Is there a big difference in noise vs the 3? (.223, 22-250, .243)?
    Last edited by Wtlj; 02-19-2013 at 01:32 AM.

  3. #63
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    If they all prettying do the same in each category why is there so many damn choices :). You'd think everyone would just buy whatever has the cheapest ammo. Guess everyone just likes debate? Is there a big difference in noise vs the 3? (.223, 22-250, .243)?
    The 22-250 has a reputation as a barrel burner. But it is an excellent long range varmint rig. The .223 would not be my choice for deer but some use it and the more experienced among us swear by it. The .243 is the more versatile round IMHO. It is perfect medicine for deer with little recoil. Using the proper bullets of course. But can also be loaded with the lighter varmint type bullets.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Razorbacker View Post
    The 22-250 has a reputation as a barrel burner. But it is an excellent long range varmint rig. The .223 would not be my choice for deer but some use it and the more experienced among us swear by it. The .243 is the more versatile round IMHO. It is perfect medicine for deer with little recoil. Using the proper bullets of course. But can also be loaded with the lighter varmint type bullets.
    Oh we'll that might change my mind. I was thinking about getting a smaller rifle for varmint (coyote) and a larger rifle for big game (deer,?,?,?) with both coming to the range with me on occasion. I'm very green to rifles as I've only done bird hunting as a kid (26 now). I haven't thought of using one for all around purpose. My grandpa always told me "guns are like tools, not one will do every job".

  5. #65
    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    243 is so much more versatile for my uses in a bolt gun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    At such a good priced round the .243 guns are scarce around me. The ammo is plentiful but every store always steers towards .223 or 22-250. Why are they so much more popular than .243?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie Bishop View Post
    243 is so much more versatile for my uses in a bolt gun.
    What are your uses Ernie?

  7. #67
    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    I use my 243 for pd's, occasional coyote, deer, antelope, and shooting out to 1K or so on steel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    What are your uses Ernie?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"

  8. #68
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    You can check out Gunbroker here's a .243: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=329391530

    Do not buy the "Etronix" one, that was a failed attempt at electronic ignition of the ammo as opposed to a firing pin striking a primer. As far as i know the ammo is no longer available.
    Honestly Dude if a few nuts hadn't blown a fuse and killed people with Obama in office, everyone would be singing the praises of the .223 for what your wanting. But ammo availability is an issue right now. But the last gun show i went to there was plenty and not obscenely priced. Over priced yes but you could buy it. You might see if you could glom onto enough .223 to hold you over til things return to normal. How long that will be is anybody's guess.
    So if you want to buy the rifle now I'd go .243.
    Keep in mind you can always get a .30 '06 later and use the .243 as a backup on a hunt.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Razorbacker View Post
    You can check out Gunbroker here's a .243: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=329391530

    Do not buy the "Etronix" one, that was a failed attempt at electronic ignition of the ammo as opposed to a firing pin striking a primer. As far as i know the ammo is no longer available.
    Honestly Dude if a few nuts hadn't blown a fuse and killed people with Obama in office, everyone would be singing the praises of the .223 for what your wanting. But ammo availability is an issue right now. But the last gun show i went to there was plenty and not obscenely priced. Over priced yes but you could buy it. You might see if you could glom onto enough .223 to hold you over til things return to normal. How long that will be is anybody's guess.
    So if you want to buy the rifle now I'd go .243.
    Keep in mind you can always get a .30 '06 later and use the .243 as a backup on a hunt.
    Thankyou for all of the insight, I live in Illinois so the only rifle hunting ill be doing is coyote per state laws. Anything bigger deer, bear, etc will be out of state and only every few years as funds allow! Would love the capabilities of all so I'm prepared when the time comes
    Thanks again and ill check out your add!

  10. #70
    Member Snaketail's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Remington model 7 in .260 Rem and use it for everything smaller than a moose. Also, works well for p-dogs too, 'less you was gonna eat em.
    It won't beat you up at the range and will cleanly dispatch whitetail and mule deer... and if you practice enough you'll be able to do your part correctly (eg, "won't beat you up at the range.")

    My grandmother shot a .270, I like newer stuff.
    Last edited by Snaketail; 02-19-2013 at 02:15 AM.

  11. #71
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    "My grandmother shot a .270... "

    Oh no you di-int

  12. #72
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    I would consider a .243 or perhaps a 30 cal They are both great rifle's! I own both and they have put a lot of meat in the freezer through out the years
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  13. #73
    Senior Member sarg1c's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michakav View Post
    This. The Remington "love" here is very strong. They are not a bad stock rifle, but most of the "lovers" here will/should attest that they usually need a little tuning. Generally, the people that recommend the 700 will add that it will shoot better with a stock and trigger upgrade.

    I personally would look at Savage (with Accutrigger) first, with the Weatherby Vanguard S2 2nd, followed by the 700.

    I would look at .243 short action or .25-06 long action.
    i have a Rem 700 ADL in .308 bought in 1983. still a pretty, and great shooter .I would not sell it for three time what I paid, I like the ADL don't like floor plates or removable mag's.
    Last edited by sarg1c; 02-19-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  14. #74
    Member Snaketail's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Yes, my grandmother shot a .270 - in Arkansas. She was not that great a shot, but did have some fame as one of Bill Clinton's teachers before he moved from Hope to Hot Springs. She also hunted in New Mexico with the .270, but later changed to a .22 Hornet - to "Shoot crows in the garden" when she retired to a tiny farm outside of Hot Springs. I wish I had that Hornet!

  15. #75
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snaketail View Post
    Yes, my grandmother shot a .270 - in Arkansas. She was not that great a shot, but did have some fame as one of Bill Clinton's teachers before he moved from Hope to Hot Springs. She also hunted in New Mexico with the .270, but later changed to a .22 Hornet - to "Shoot crows in the garden" when she retired to a tiny farm outside of Hot Springs. I wish I had that Hornet!
    Belated welcome to the forum. The .270 is kind of a running joke on here. hang around and you'll see.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Razorbacker View Post
    Belated welcome to the forum. The .270 is kind of a running joke on here. hang around and you'll see.
    Gotcha, I was wondering why there was so many silly stories with the .270

  17. #77
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    Gotcha, I was wondering why there was so many silly stories with the .270
    'cause it's a silly round
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    'cause it's a silly round
    Why is that?

  19. #79
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    Why is that?
    Ok I'll try to summarize years of ongoing Forum jokes and kidding around in one post.

    On one side you have the crew that bough ol' Jack O'Connor's cool-aid and believes that the .270 is the answer to anything that needs to be killed worldwide. This group will defend their choice of chambering and sing the mythical properties of the .270 to the point of outright creepiness. They will tell you how it's a perfectly suitable moose/elk chambering (it's adequate as long as you know what you are doing and it's limitations) and will try to convince you that it's actually "better" than other established big game chambering because it has less recoil than the 30-06 (debatable), kills better than the .300 Win Mag and ruins less meat (oh Lord), is more inherently accurate than the .308 and is just a superior all around round. Most of this info came from gran'pappy and he must be right because he kilt about 457 deer with his .270. Funny enough the phenomena is pretty much a Southern thing. Can't remember the last time I heard ANYONE in the Northern states ask for a .270 at the gun store and racks are full of leftover .270's at Cabelas and Gander Mountain at the end of hunting season.

    On the other hand there is a group of folks that just need to make fun of the first group...

    As mentioned it has been a rolling, ongoing joke for a long time around here. The reality of it all is that the .270 is no better or worse than just about anything else in it's class and the same case can be made for just about anything in the .308/30-06 class of cartridges which have no cult following AND a much better case can be made for NOT using the .270 on the larger critters when you stack it up against chambering like .338-06, .35 Whelen, or even the old standard 30-06 which is one of my LEAST favored rounds and yet I still find myself with 3 freakin' hunting rifles chambered in it...
    Last edited by Wambli Ska; 02-19-2013 at 11:32 PM.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Ok I'll try to summarize years of ongoing Forum jokes and kidding around in one post.

    On one side you have the crew that bough ol' Jack O'Connor's cool-aid and believes that the .270 is the answer to anything that needs to be killed worldwide. This group will defend their choice of chambering and sing the mythical properties of the .270 to the point of outright creepiness. They will tell you how it's a perfectly suitable moose/elk chambering (it's adequate as long as you know what you are doing and it's limitations) and will try to convince you that it's actually "better" than other established big game chambering because it has less recoil than the 30-06 (debatable), kills better than the .300 Win Mag and ruins less meat (oh Lord), is more inherently accurate than the .308 and is just a superior all around round. Most of this info came from gran'pappy and he must be right because he kilt about 457 deer with his .270. Funny enough the phenomena is pretty much a Southern thing. Can't remember the last time I heard ANYONE in the Northern states ask for a .270 at the gun store and racks are full of leftover .270's at Cabelas and Gander Mountain at the end of hunting season.

    On the other hand there is a group of folks that just need to make fun of the first group...

    As mentioned it has been a rolling, ongoing joke for a long time around here. The reality of it all is that the .270 is no better or worse than just about anything else in it's class and the same case can be made for just about anything in the .308/30-06 class of cartridges which have no cult following AND a much better case can be made for NOT using the .270 on the larger critters when you stack it up against chambering like .338-06, .35 Whelen, or even the old standard 30-06 which is one of my LEAST favored rounds and yet I still find myself with 3 freakin' hunting rifles chambered in it...
    Ahhh, now it all makes sense! Thanks for the explanation. Damn funny actually. I'm very happy to have found this forum. Already learned a lot from reading other threads.

  21. #81
    Senior Member bruchi's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Had a Remington 700 SPS varmnter in 308, with Black Hills ammo it made just a tad under .5" groups at 100 yards from a bench and that was my first time shooting a rifle at that distance! Not a hunter but from what I read here before seems that 223 is not the best choice for hunting deer, the more experienced guys here will give you better info on this.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".

  22. #82
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by bruchi View Post
    Had a Remington 700 SPS varmnter in 308, with Black Hills ammo it made just a tad under .5" groups at 100 yards from a bench and that was my first time shooting a rifle at that distance! Not a hunter but from what I read here before seems that 223 is not the best choice for hunting deer, the more experienced guys here will give you better info on this.
    If deer hunting is on the menu consistently the SPS .223 is not the best choice since the twist is 12:1 which will not stabilize the longer/heavier .223 bullets that would be more suitable for deer sized game. Mine throws a pattern with 64 gr. Gold Dots but it's sub MOA with anything under 55 gr.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  23. #83
    Well, I had my mind set on a .223 and a .308 until I looked at all my LGS ammo shelves :(. I got pretty discouraged and actually stopped thinking about the rifle for a few days! It's really a bummer to purchase a rifle just for what ammo is available during these times. I'm also considering spending more on a rifle I can use for a fun target/hunting gun instead of a cheap hunting only gun.

  24. #84
    Why is it that the .223 and .308 are the most unobtainable during times like these? I don't mind buying multiple guns to satisfy different tasks I just work very hard for my money and want to make the right decision for a firearm that I will be able to hand down to my children in 50 years.

  25. #85
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    Why is it that the .223 and .308 are the most unobtainable during times like these? I don't mind buying multiple guns to satisfy different tasks I just work very hard for my money and want to make the right decision for a firearm that I will be able to hand down to my children in 50 years.
    Military chanberings have always been popular and become civilian hits almost immediately. Many high capacity semi auto military style rifles are chambered in .223 and .308 and folks tend to go thorugh a lot of ammo when they go play with these guns. Also military sales are usually very high for .223(5.56) and .308 and in times of war production to the military is a priority. You are now faced with a perfect storm. High military and civilian consumption tied up to panic buying because of the idiot occupying the White House. The trick is to stock up during the low demand points in between the panics when production surpases demand and we have a glut and do a little stockpiling of your own.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  26. #86
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    Why is it that the .223 and .308 are the most unobtainable during times like these? I don't mind buying multiple guns to satisfy different tasks I just work very hard for my money and want to make the right decision for a firearm that I will be able to hand down to my children in 50 years.
    Okay man, I've been thinking about your little problem. First of all Wambli answered your question in a nut shell. Secondly,, you asked about 3 calibers and that's what I gave you my opinion on. But there are others. I'll list the ones I can think of but I don't know much about them so you'll have to look into them to see if they'll fit your needs or maybe someone else will weigh in.
    The .17s
    .221 Fireball
    .22 Hornet
    .222 I think orchidman may have once killed a wombat or something with one of those.
    .25 06
    I'm sure I left some out but you can either look into these. Or if you know you won't be happy with anything but a .223 then buy one and do the best you can on ammo. If it makes you feel any better factory ammo for my 8mm Remington Magnum is about $3.70 per round.

  27. #87
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    Thankyou for all of the insight, I live in Illinois so the only rifle hunting ill be doing is coyote per state laws. Anything bigger deer, bear, etc will be out of state and only every few years as funds allow! Would love the capabilities of all so I'm prepared when the time comes
    Thanks again and ill check out your add!
    This is the rest of the story that was needed.

    You are looking at a varmint rifle, you have no immediate plan to hunt deer or larger with it in the forseeable future.

    IMHO:
    You want a heavy sporter/walking varmiter type of bbl weight. All of the major manufacturers make a decent product now.

    (generally)
    If you are in hilly farm area where there will be people close and the shots are not more than 250yds, a 222 Remington is hard to beat. Easy on the ears, tough on varmints. I have a old Savage 840 that isnt all that accurate (1.25@100) but they are what they are. Still have beaned a bunch of groundhogs with it.
    If you can reach out a bit more, and dont want to do the math, then a 223 will give you 300+ yds. If you have some shots that are a little longer, go for a 22-250 or a 220 Swift. I like my 22-250. I have reached out on a few gh's and using 50gr Nos BT's is where I took my handle. Since I have older kids, I now use it mostly to trim branches on the rifle range. Range goes across a valley, so instead of cutting the trees down, I just clip the branches that grow into the shooting area about 70 yards out and 40 feet up with the 22-250. My friends laughed at me when I trotted it out, until the branches fell.

    Yes you can go longer with all of them, but in general for regular varminting, this will hold.

    ALL of those cartridges will kill deer. I know a guy who never hunted with anything else than a 222R and he always got his deer. The thing is with a smaller caliber, you have to know how to wait. You cannot take a shot into the butt and expect it to get to the vitals, or try to break shoulder. But a 224 bullet in plumbing and HVAC will drop a deer.
    .................

    If you want a either/or rifle, the 243 is great on groundhogs and kills PA black bear with regularity. Anyone who says it isn't enough for deer needs to talk to my wife. With 100gr bullets they dont complain that the diameter is little. The guy who got me into varminting used a 243. Same rifle and load as for deer. If you want a little more oppmph, a 25-06 is the same thing, only a little bigger and faster.
    If you are sticking to deer and black bear sizes, this class in plenty.

    ..................

    If you are regularly getting shots on deer over 400 yards, then a magnum might want to be considered. If your shots are under 300, then you can spend the extra money if you want to but there isnt a real need. A magnum will keep the velocity on a std type bullet higher allowing the bullet to work as advertized at longer ranges and that is where is excells. Flat shooting is more myth than fact. A magnum will allow you to just hold on the heart for about 30 yards farther than a std chambering.
    So you need to look at where you are going to hunt and see what you need. If you are mostly short to mid range, out to 400 max once in a while, a std 06(ish) will do you fine. If you are going to 500, or have a lot at 3-500, go for the magnum. Won't hurt.
    Last edited by Varmintmist; 02-21-2013 at 08:22 PM.
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  28. #88
    Ok I've narrowed it down to 2 rifles!

    #1 savage 111 trophy hunter combo, accutrigger, black synthetic stock, light barrel. Nikon BDC 3-9x40 scope

    #2 savage 11VT combo, accutrigger, beavertail black sythetic stock, 26" heavy barrel, bushnell 4-12x40 scope
    Barrel in this model was floated really high, I had to put some real force to get it to touch the barrel. May have been the accustock, but not sure. I haven't seen the stock on another savage to date.

    Both rifles are $550! What do you think?
    I know the scopes probably aren't the best on the combos but there definitely better than any other combos I've looked at.
    Last edited by Wtlj; 02-22-2013 at 04:00 AM.

  29. #89
    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: First rifle recommendations!

    Chamberings?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wtlj View Post
    Ok I've narrowed it down to 2 rifles!

    #1 savage 111 trophy hunter combo, accutrigger, black synthetic stock, light barrel. Nikon BDC 3-9x40 scope

    #2 savage 11VT combo, accutrigger, beavertail black sythetic stock, 26" heavy barrel, bushnell 4-12x40 scope
    Barrel in this model was floated really high, I had to put some real force to get it to touch the barrel. May have been the accustock, but not sure. I haven't seen the stock on another savage to date.

    Both rifles are $550! What do you think?
    I know the scopes probably aren't the best on the combos but there definitely better than any other combos I've looked at.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie Bishop View Post
    Chamberings?
    Ernie they both come in .223 and .308 so I'm good there. I wish I knew if that heavy barrel was a accustock. Will that make any difference.

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