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Thread: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

  1. #31
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDanS View Post
    When Valuejet 592 crashed in the Everglades it buried itself almost to the point of not finding anything resembling an aircraft. If it hit mud at high speed in shallow water or in a swampy area it could virtually disappear.

    D
    True. Most folks here are a lot more informed about the subject, but the average person has little idea just what a disaster a crash can be if the plane is blown up or if it hits at considerable speed. It is essentially disintegrated and as you say about that crash, debris is so scattered and embedded that it's often unrecognizable.

    Average folks also don't realize what happens when a plane hits water at speed. The water acts as if it were solid (water is fairly dense) and it's like slamming into solid rock.

    The Lord was certainly helping Sully Sullivan on that amazing sliding landing in the East River but that's very atypical for a water crash. Usually there's nothing much left. If this 777 went totally into the sea, it's in fragments. Unfortunately.
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  2. #32

    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by samzhere View Post
    True. Most folks here are a lot more informed about the subject, but the average person has little idea just what a disaster a crash can be if the plane is blown up or if it hits at considerable speed. It is essentially disintegrated and as you say about that crash, debris is so scattered and embedded that it's often unrecognizable.
    And just how hard it is to find the debris. It was just last year that they found a large part of one of the 9/11 airliners wedged in a spot in one of the most densely populated areas of the world.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member bml's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    The Marians trench has a depth of 36,000'
    Holy smokes!! Thats some serious water pressure at that depth. Thats over 15,000 PSI!
    Quote Originally Posted by scottd View Post
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    This is like watching a bunch or retards trying to hump a door knob.....

  4. #34
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by bml View Post
    Holy smokes!! Thats some serious water pressure at that depth. Thats over 15,000 PSI!
    Even at more shallow depths, those typical for oil & gas xmas trees (10k-13k feet) the pressure does weird things, valves don't work, hydraulics are hard to use, and even stainless steel can become brittle. Add to that, if you're pumping oil, that crude is corrosive and hot, and just a few inches away, the ocean is near freezing. The engineering technology needed for working at those depths is awesome.
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  5. #35
    Moderator Jayhawker's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    [QUOTE=samzhere;332279] Sully Sullivan /QUOTE]

    "Sully Sullenberger"....."Sully" Sullivan is my oldest brother...
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Dr. db's Avatar
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    Paul "Sully" Sullivan was my uncle.

  7. #37
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. db View Post
    Paul "Sully" Sullivan was my uncle.
    Sorry, I was referring to the captain of the US Airways jet that did a remarkable soft landing in the East River in 2009. His real name is Chesley Sullenberger and he's very much alive.

    I'd gotten his name wrong in my earlier post. It wasn't Sullivan.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Link via Drudge to the excellent Telegraph (Brit news) story -- it provides almost every item regarding this disappearance (London Telegraph is a top source most always):

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rash-live.html

    Photo of the 2 Iranians who were on the flight w. the stolen passports. They flew to Malaysia w. their own Iranian passports and then switched to the stolen ones.

    Another report says that the plane was last tracked by Malaysian military radar as hundreds of miles off course to the east, flying lower. So the plane may have crashed on land, or overshot and is the shallow straits.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by bml View Post
    Holy smokes!! Thats some serious water pressure at that depth. Thats over 15,000 PSI!
    General rule of thumb for water pressure is .5 lb./foot of water level. It adds up fast.
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  10. #40

    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Question for the more avionic minded members. Can the "IFF" transponder be turned off from inside the plane during flight? Would it be possible for someone to turn off the transponder, then fly low and avoid radar?
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  11. #41
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    Question for the more avionic minded members. Can the "IFF" transponder be turned off from inside the plane during flight? Would it be possible for someone to turn off the transponder, then fly low and avoid radar?
    From what I remember, no, the "black box" system cannot be deactivated by anyone in the aircraft. It's pretty much buried in the fuselage and isn't even accessible in flight.

    Which still makes it amazing that the black box hasn't been located yet. Of course if it's deep underwater that would explain it.

    What I read in an associated story about this crash is that the new generation black boxes will be computer-linked to nav satellites and the status and location of an aircraft will be updated instantly, second by second. The existing equipment doesn't do that.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member orchidman's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by samzhere View Post
    From what I remember, no, the "black box" system cannot be deactivated by anyone in the aircraft. It's pretty much buried in the fuselage and isn't even accessible in flight.

    Which still makes it amazing that the black box hasn't been located yet. Of course if it's deep underwater that would explain it.

    What I read in an associated story about this crash is that the new generation black boxes will be computer-linked to nav satellites and the status and location of an aircraft will be updated instantly, second by second. The existing equipment doesn't do that.
    The 'Back Box' is not a transponder, it is a recording device that records the flight parameters and control settings etc.

    The transponder or IFF is a separate instrument.

    This from Wiki should help.....Transponder codes are four digit numbers transmitted by the transponder in an aircraft in response to a secondary surveillance radar interrogation signal to assist air traffic controllers in traffic separation. A discrete transponder code (often called a squawk code) is assigned by air traffic controllers to uniquely identify an aircraft. This allows easy identification of aircraft on radar.[6][7]

    Squawk codes are four-digit octal numbers; the dials on a transponder read from zero to seven, inclusive. Thus the lowest possible squawk is 0000 and the highest is 7777. Four octal digits can represent up to 4096 different codes, which is why such transponders are often called "4096 code transponders." Care must be taken not to squawk any emergency code during a code change. For example, when changing from 1200 to 6501 (an assigned ATC squawk), one might turn the second wheel to a 5 (thus 1500), and then rotate the first wheel backwards in the sequence 1-0-7-6 to get to 6. This would momentarily have the transponder squawking a hijack code (7500), which might lead to more attention than one desires. Pilots are instructed not to place the transponder in "standby mode" while changing the codes, as it causes the loss of target information on the ATC radar screen, but instead to carefully change codes to avoid inadvertently selecting an emergency code. Additionally, modern digital transponders are operated by buttons to avoid this problem.[
    .


    From the above it appears that they can be put in standby...........which means they are not transmitting.

    (Black boxes have an inbuilt transmitter that broadcasts a locating signal.)
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  13. #43
    Senior Member NN's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    I know we used to be able to turn them off/standby; esp when we did not want the FAA to know what altitude we were at when telling them something else.
    Division one critter rescue team leader.

  14. #44
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by NN View Post
    I know we used to be able to turn them off/standby; esp when we did not want the FAA to know what altitude we were at when telling them something else.
    You may be right, I don't know for sure, but I do seem to remember reading something post-9/11 about the black boxes not being accessible any more. When was this that you could do the off/standby thing? Just curious...
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  15. #45
    Senior Member centermass556's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    It is pretty easy to figure out what happened to it....

    Lost.jpg
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  16. #46
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by samzhere View Post
    You may be right, I don't know for sure, but I do seem to remember reading something post-9/11 about the black boxes not being accessible any more. When was this that you could do the off/standby thing? Just curious...
    See post #42..............Ned is talking 'pickles', you are hearing 'cheese'.............
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  17. #47
    Senior Member PFD's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by centermass556 View Post
    It is pretty easy to figure out what happened to it....

    Lost.jpg
    Could be . . . but I'm thinking:
    That's all I got.

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  18. #48
    Moderator Jayhawker's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by orchidman View Post
    See post #42..............Ned is talking 'pickles', you are hearing 'cheese'.............
    This....Sam...the IFF (Identification Friend or Foe)Transponder is NOT the same thing as the in-Flight Data Recorder (Black Box)... The former can be placed in "Standby" mode in which it does not transmit.
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  19. #49
    Senior Member centermass556's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    If it was shot down or crashed into land....It would have been seen.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

  20. #50
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker View Post
    This....Sam...the IFF (Identification Friend or Foe)Transponder is NOT the same thing as the in-Flight Data Recorder (Black Box)... The former can be placed in "Standby" mode in which it does not transmit.
    Ah, sorry. I'd forgotten what IFF meant. Okay...
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  21. #51
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by samzhere View Post
    Average folks also don't realize what happens when a plane hits water at speed. The water acts as if it were solid (water is fairly dense) and it's like slamming into solid rock.
    No way, average folks really don't know this?

  22. #52
    Senior Member Six-Gun's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    Question for the more avionic minded members. Can the "IFF" transponder be turned off from inside the plane during flight? Would it be possible for someone to turn off the transponder, then fly low and avoid radar?
    Absolutely. It can be turned on or off at the will of the crew. In fact, when one is having trouble, it is common practice to cycle the power on and off on the unit. Typically, the IFF transmits using a 4-digit code as stated above, but it also use one of several different modes depending on the use and desired encryption. While civil traffic may use Mode 1 or Mode 2, allied military jets in wartime may use Mode 4.
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  23. #53
    Senior Member samzhere's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    No way, average folks really don't know this?
    Actually, they don't. They look at the emergency fliers in the seat pockets and it shows passengers comfortably and courteously disembarking from the doors and happily standing on the aircraft wings. The plane meantime is floating high on the water like it was made of balsa wood instead of sinking in, oh, 2 minutes.

    That East River "soft landing" by Sully was remarkable and highly unusual. But that's the way the brochures depict it normally -- think back to the illustrations in those safety fliers?
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  24. #54

    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Six-Gun View Post
    Absolutely. It can be turned on or off at the will of the crew. In fact, when one is having trouble, it is common practice to cycle the power on and off on the unit. Typically, the IFF transmits using a 4-digit code as stated above, but it also use one of several different modes depending on the use and desired encryption. While civil traffic may use Mode 1 or Mode 2, allied military jets in wartime may use Mode 4.
    So it's in the realm of possibilities that the plane did not go down, but was purposefully flown to disappear.

    Sounds about as likely as the "hit by a meteor" theory I heard this morning
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  25. #55
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    "Airport 77" anyone?

    www.imdb.com/title/tt0075648

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  26. #56
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by 5280 shooter II View Post
    I remember reading something about Chuck Yeager saying......."the only way out of a flat spin was to nose her over and dive until the aircraft got control back".
    Yep because when you nose over and dive it gives you back something lost and you need badly in a hurry, air speed. Then you get your airfoil back and begin flying instead of spinning wildly, falling like a rock.

    OOPS! What I should have said is that it gives you back an air foil which went away because of the stall.
    Last edited by snake284; 03-12-2014 at 07:51 PM.
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  27. #57
    Senior Member centermass556's Avatar
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    I'm telling y'all that plane is sitting under a hanger somewhere.

    So you know what is better than an ICBM... A passenger plane full of explosives and paratroopers. under false flag at a pre determine target.

    Do you know what exercise we just finished here in Alaska... Red flag.. Google it.

    The Russians used it once, and essentially it was used against us on 9/11 after the high jackers took control. I have no doubt it is going to be tried again.

    We can see a lot from space. A lot. But we are looking for specific things... Launches explosions, radar batteries, troop movement.

    We don't look for passenger aircraft.
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  28. #58
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by centermass556 View Post
    I'm telling y'all that plane is sitting under a hanger somewhere.

    So you know what is better than an ICBM... A passenger plane full of explosives and paratroopers. under false flag at a pre determine target.

    Do you know what exercise we just finished here in Alaska... Red flag.. Google it.

    The Russians used it once, and essentially it was used against us on 9/11 after the high jackers took control. I have no doubt it is going to be tried again.

    We can see a lot from space. A lot. But we are looking for specific things... Launches explosions, radar batteries, troop movement.

    We don't look for passenger aircraft.
    Yeah and if these sickos do this they will probably use the passengers as hostages some way or another.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
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  29. #59
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  30. #60
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    Re: Fate of Malaysia Air Flight MH370 Still Unknown

    It ain't paratroopers, for Christ's sake Two or more Americans were on that plane, four years old and less, along with their parents. Paranoia...it makes people say dumb things. Who is Malaysia going to attack? Who do they have a beef with? If the passengers are being held hostage, why has no one come up with any demands? If this is to be a secret-squirrel mission, why choose a blatantly un-secret commercial aircraft?
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