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Thread: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

  1. #1
    Senior Member shotgunshooter3's Avatar
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    Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Hey all, I was lurking the LGS today and found, hidden away in the corner, a barely used (bolt face is still clean, only a bit of residue in the barrel, bolt lugs barely showing any wear at all, some scratches on the barrel) Weather Vanguard in 7mm Rem Mag for $300 (comes to about $325 after taxes). I think this is the proverbial "Someone bought it, shot it a bit, and couldn't shoot well with it" gun.

    Good deal? Good enough that I should run back to the store before class and put it on layaway? Good enough to take that over the $50 discount on a new Vanguard (thanks to the new Vanguard II), which is about $375 after taxes? I have a 7mm-08, is a 7mm Rem Mag enough of a step up to justify it?

    Purpose of this gun would be for the potential Forum elk hunt next year, and just to have it.

    Thanks for any input!
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C

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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    As compared to the Mk V (9-lug, short-throw) action, the Vanguard (to me) is "just a nuther Mauser-ish action" in design and function. That said, its a pretty good Mauser-ish action - twin locking lugs and all. Quality gun but not exotic or unusual. I'd do it if I were looking for something in that caliber/type.

    And yeah, 7mm-08's pretty versatile, but to go after something as heavy as elk I don't think you'll regret upgrading to a 7mm Rem Mag.

  3. #3
    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    7mm cartridges are outstanding so step up to the the 7mm mag and have fun, and the price you have posted is a good price indeed.

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    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    In my humble opinion, the 7 mag is much more versatile than the 7-08. If you handload, you can load it down to 7-08 performance levels, or load it up to shoot heavier bullets than the 7-08 can handle. And, you can load the same bullet at a higher velocity with the mag than with the 08.

    The downside is that you'll probably be looking at a 24 inch barrel rather than a 22 inch barrel, the mag will be a little heavier, and it will kick harder. However, I've shot a 7 mag going on 20 years, and it's not that hard kicking a round, in my opinion.

    If you get the 7 mag, and like it, consider selling the 7-08 and stepping up or down, depending on what you want to do. The .243 or 6mm is perfectly capable of taking any whitetail that ever set foot in Texas, and can be used for even smaller game. You might even get a chance to shoot javelinas or prairie dogs some day. Or, take it down even a little further and go with a .223 or .22-250. I think those are legal for deer hunting in Texas, although I would not use either for that purpose.

    You could also step up to a fast 30, even though I probably would not do that, or a .338 of some sort if you wish. Regardless, the 7 mag has the versatility to allow you to do whatever you wish, and it's a very good elk round, in my opinion.

    I'll make one more point and shut up. As I stated above, I've shot a 7 mag for years. I don't shoot mine much any more, but it's probably the last rifle I have that I would sell if I had to start selling off my guns. It's the one rifle I have that allows me to play with other chamberings, and take my sweet time finding a suitable load for them. Knowing that I have my 7 mag sitting in my safe ready to go is a great comfort when I'm struggling to find something that my .284 or .338x.284 likes.
    Jerry

    The age of reason...when excuses become reasons.

  5. #5
    Senior Member shotgunshooter3's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Thanks for the input guys. I'm tempted to go for it on the used Vanguard. I could put the rifle on layaway and have it out by December, then have a couple of months to get it glassed.

    With a Nikon Buckmaster scope I'd be in it for right around $650 not including ammo once everything was all said and done.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
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    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    If you buy it, think about starting off with the lighter ammo, 140 grains or less if you can find it. I think you'll find that the recoil is very manageable, but it won't hurt to start with lighter kicking loads and work your way up.

    If you choose to reload, start with a bullet in the 140 grain weight class that is reasonably cheap, and don't worry about accuracy. Just use a lighter load to get used to it, and then you can get serious about developing the load you ultimately wish to use.

    Good luck!
    Jerry

    The age of reason...when excuses become reasons.

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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    I like the 7 Mag. Sounds like a good deal.

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    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Agreed!
    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    the 7 mag is much more versatile than the 7-08.
    Ernie

    "If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water."

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    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Yes, the seven mag is more versatile but not that much and recoil to some is much more pleasant with the 7mm-08

    Cartridge: .7mm Rem magnum
    Firearm: Winchester Featherweight
    Load and Firearm Info:
    Bullet Dia (in): 0.284
    Case Length (in): 2.500
    Case Volume (gr H2O):
    80.8 Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 3150
    Bullet Wt (gr): 140
    Charge Weight (gr): 67.5
    Barrel Length (in): 24
    Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50
    Free recoil energy is 22.7 ft-lb. (30.6 Joule)


    Cartridge: .7mm-08
    Firearm: Winchester Featherweight
    Load and Firearm Info:
    Bullet Dia (in): 0.224
    Case Length (in): 2.035
    Case Volume (gr H2O): 55.2
    Muzzle velocity (ft/sec): 2845
    Bullet Wt (gr): 140
    Charge Weight (gr): 47.0
    Barrel Length (in): 24
    Firearm Weight (lb): 7.50
    Free recoil energy is 16.5 ft-lb. (22.4 Joule)

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    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    I would suspect as you go up to the 160 class bullets the MV margin will widen between the two cartridges
    Ernie

    "If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water."

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    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    The major difference, BT, is that you can load the 7 mag down to 7-08 levels, but not vice-versa. Also, try loading the 7-08 with a high BC 160-162 grain bullet, or a 175 grain bullet and see what you get.
    Jerry

    The age of reason...when excuses become reasons.

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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    The 7 Mag is versatile enough to make it more versatile than the 7mm-08. Where the '08 stops, the Mag takes over.

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    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Yes, you all are right about the versatility, but of course my point was the light recoil of the 7mm-08 and viewing it from my perspective of being able to place a shot well. I think a 7mm mag is perfect for most anything a man would want to take in North America and more so than a 7mm-08, but the 7mm-08 I had in a custom Sako sure was fun to take game with. There are a few advantages of the 7mm-08 but the 7mm mag is a dandy indeed and a very good all around cartridge.

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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by beartracker View Post
    ......and recoil to some is much more pleasant with the 7mm-08
    No, really? Ya don't say? How did ya come up with THAT, Einstein. So, do ya think that means the .308 Winchester might be more pleasant to shoot than a .300 Win Mag out of equal rifles? Shocker! ;-)

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    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by BPsniper View Post
    No, really? Ya don't say? How did ya come up with THAT, Einstein. So, do ya think that means the .308 Winchester might be more pleasant to shoot than a .300 Win Mag out of equal rifles? Shocker! ;-)
    May I remind you that we are ALL manly men? As such, we are imprevious to recoil and consider it as little more than a minor nuisance.

    Carry on.
    Jerry

    The age of reason...when excuses become reasons.

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    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by BPsniper View Post
    No, really? Ya don't say? How did ya come up with THAT, Einstein. So, do ya think that means the .308 Winchester might be more pleasant to shoot than a .300 Win Mag out of equal rifles? Shocker! ;-)
    It is nice to be referred to as an Einstein, of course not in the vain you intended it. It took me a long time to figure the recoil thing out.

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    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    May I remind you that we are ALL manly men? As such, we are imprevious to recoil and consider it as little more than a minor nuisance.

    Carry on.
    Yeah, I hope to be manly one day with the little cartridges I shoot most of the time. I am kind of liking lately the idea of efficient rounds as apposed to the sometimes way overbore cartridges I tend to shoot and hunt with.

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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    May I remind you that we are ALL manly men? As such, we are imprevious to recoil and consider it as little more than a minor nuisance.Carry on.
    Yes. I feel very manly when I shoot my 8 pound .458 Win Mag with stout loads. Stupid, but manly none the less.

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    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by BPsniper View Post
    Yes. I feel very manly when I shoot my 8 pound .458 Win Mag with stout loads. Stupid, but manly none the less.
    Just for fun, manly ain't so smart sometimes.


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    Senior Member shotgunshooter3's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Thanks for the input guys, I'm somewhat tempted to go in there and offer the guys $300 cash for it and see if they bite.

    Question: How much do I give up by having a 24" bbl instead of a 26" bbl in the 7mm RM?
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C

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    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    guessing 60-80 fps

    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunshooter3 View Post
    Thanks for the input guys, I'm somewhat tempted to go in there and offer the guys $300 cash for it and see if they bite.

    Question: How much do I give up by having a 24" bbl instead of a 26" bbl in the 7mm RM?
    Ernie

    "If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water."

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    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Not much and maybe not as much as Ernie said

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    Senior Member Jermanator's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    I agree with everything Jerrybobco said but my one concern is that the 7/08 was a Christmas present from 41magnut (SS3's dad). The two rifles seem too close together if he is going to keep them both. Maybe if he set aside the 7/08 for a little SS4 later in life, I can understand-- or if there really isn't any sentimental value to the rifle, then so be it.

    Summary: If he is going to keep both, I would suggest going bigger. If he plans on mothballing the 7/08 or selling it (after the Vanguard is proven) then the 7mm mag is a good option. But then, you can never have too many rifles either. I am just thinking college kid/budget.

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    Senior Member shotgunshooter3's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Good points made by all. I'm definitely not mothballing nor selling the 7mm-08, it's the perfect medicine for deer around here and antelope farther out West, plus it drives nails.

    Right now it's between jumping on this 7mm RM, or just using Hornady Super Performance 139 GMX's in the 7mm-08.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C

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    Senior Member MileHighShooter's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by gunrunner428 View Post
    As compared to the Mk V (9-lug, short-throw) action, the Vanguard (to me) is "just a nuther Mauser-ish action" in design and function. That said, its a pretty good Mauser-ish action - twin locking lugs and all. Quality gun but not exotic or unusual. I'd do it if I were looking for something in that caliber/type.

    And yeah, 7mm-08's pretty versatile, but to go after something as heavy as elk I don't think you'll regret upgrading to a 7mm Rem Mag.

    Waii.....er....eh....huh?!

    It is not mauser-ish, at all, in any sense of the word, except that its a bolt action, repeating rifle. And that is it. Period. They have nothing else to do with each other. The Vanguard/Howa 1500 is most closely related to the R700 if anything at all. And neither of of those are Mauser-ish. The only rifles that COULD be considered Masuer-ish would be pre-64 M70's and Springfield 1903's. Hell the 1903 WAS a copy of the mauser. The P14/P17 and Enfields were CRF, but I wouldn't consider them mauser type rirlfes. This is of course assuming that when the vast majority of people say "mauser" they are in fact speaking about a designer and manufacturer who made many models, but are talking about the 1898 Mauser.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.

  26. #26
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    In my humble opinion, the 7 mag is much more versatile than the 7-08. If you handload, you can load it down to 7-08 performance levels, or load it up to shoot heavier bullets than the 7-08 can handle. And, you can load the same bullet at a higher velocity with the mag than with the 08.

    The downside is that you'll probably be looking at a 24 inch barrel rather than a 22 inch barrel, the mag will be a little heavier, and it will kick harder. However, I've shot a 7 mag going on 20 years, and it's not that hard kicking a round, in my opinion.




    If you get the 7 mag, and like it, consider selling the 7-08 and stepping up or down, depending on what you want to do. The .243 or 6mm is perfectly capable of taking any whitetail that ever set foot in Texas, and can be used for even smaller game. You might even get a chance to shoot javelinas or prairie dogs some day. Or, take it down even a little further and go with a .223 or .22-250. I think those are legal for deer hunting in Texas, although I would not use either for that purpose.

    You could also step up to a fast 30, even though I probably would not do that, or a .338 of some sort if you wish. Regardless, the 7 mag has the versatility to allow you to do whatever you wish, and it's a very good elk round, in my opinion.

    I'll make one more point and shut up. As I stated above, I've shot a 7 mag for years. I don't shoot mine much any more, but it's probably the last rifle I have that I would sell if I had to start selling off my guns. It's the one rifle I have that allows me to play with other chamberings, and take my sweet time finding a suitable load for them. Knowing that I have my 7 mag sitting in my safe ready to go is a great comfort when I'm struggling to find something that my .284 or .338x.284 likes.
    I think that's some pretty good advice JBC. Only thing I will say is I think the 22-250 in Texas does fine on deer. That would be a nice compliment to the .7Mag. However, I think the 6mm is even better. It will reach out and touch something in the varmint class and it will kill any deer anywhere. The only problem, the 6mm Rem. is almost strictly a hand loading proposition nowdays. I haven't seen any ammo on the shelves in years for it. A .243 is almost as good, and you can get ammo anywhere for it. I'm just partial to the 6mm Remington.
    I only have YOU guys to blame if things don't work out as planned.

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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Milehigh, when I channeled the Mauser reference, I was mostly referring to the basic twin locking-lug design, a feature pioneered by Mauser and swiftly copied the world over. As opposed to the Mk V action, three rows of three locking lugs, reminds you a bit of an interrupted thread, giving a 60 degree as opposed to the twin-lug design's 90 degree bolt throw (which you also get with the Browning A-bolt 3-lug layout.) In a simple way, I kind of lump any twin-lug bolt rifle (Rem 700, push-feed Win. 70, etc) together as "Mauser-ish", qualifying others such as the controlled-round feed Winchester M-70 or Ruger M77 Mk II as "Mauser-based".

    In contrast, such patterns as the British Enfield SMLE/No 4, Krag/Jorgensen, and other oddball bolt actions were not based on a Mauser concept, so stand alone as their own rather unique designs.

    Personal vocabulary fell short here, my apologies!

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    Senior Member Jeeper's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by BPsniper View Post
    No, really? Ya don't say? How did ya come up with THAT, Einstein. So, do ya think that means the .308 Winchester might be more pleasant to shoot than a .300 Win Mag out of equal rifles? Shocker! ;-)
    The point is that for only a ~10% reduction in muzzle velocity, you get ~26% reduction in recoil. Not a bad trade off for someone who IS recoil sensitive.

    Luis

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    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    SS3, if I may offer one other piece of advice, it is to jump over to the hunting forum and read the post on confidence. It offers a different perspective on what is important in picking a hunting firearm.

    FWIW, I was happy with hunting elk with a .270 when I stumbled upon a good deal on a 7 mag. Even though I knew I could cleanly take any elk on the planet with my .270, I grabbed the deal, and have never regretted it. At the very least, I had two rifles capable of doing what I needed, and could use one as a backup to the other, depending on the situation.
    Jerry

    The age of reason...when excuses become reasons.

  30. #30
    Senior Member beartracker's Avatar
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    Re: Price check, Weatherby Vanguard 7mm Rem Mag

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    SS3, if I may offer one other piece of advice, it is to jump over to the hunting forum and read the post on confidence. It offers a different perspective on what is important in picking a hunting firearm.

    FWIW, I was happy with hunting elk with a .270 when I stumbled upon a good deal on a 7 mag. Even though I knew I could cleanly take any elk on the planet with my .270, I grabbed the deal, and have never regretted it. At the very least, I had two rifles capable of doing what I needed, and could use one as a backup to the other, depending on the situation.
    Well said indeed Jerry!!! I use to hunt with my 30-06 and I was very confident in taking game with it when I went out west. Then I got a 300Wby and also a 300win Mag (liking the 300Win Mag the most) and for years used it and the 30-06 was my back up. It actually paid off one year as I fell off a ledge and when I landed some six feet down, I land with my rifle under me and crushed my scope on my Ruger 300Win mag. That evening I went back to our camp and got my 30-06 and finished the hunt making my kill with the 06 and never had a second thought if the 06 would do the job.

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