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Thread: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

  1. #61
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    Then build it as an AR Pistol.
    Actually I was thinking an SBR with about a 10-11" barrel capable of taking high cap 10mm Glock mags AND a can. You could have a PARTY with a bunch of pigs. But an AR pistol would work very well too.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  2. #62
    Member Smiley's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Not really interested in pistol caliber carbines. Just as soon run a .223 Rem.

    A .40 S&W would be kinda fun but only for ammo availability.
    I had a HiPoint 4095 carbine. Sweet.

  3. #63
    Senior Member BigDanS's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Actually I was thinking an SBR with about a 10-11" barrel capable of taking high cap 10mm Glock mags AND a can. You could have a PARTY with a bunch of pigs. But an AR pistol would work very well too.
    Why bother with .223 when you could go full stupid .308?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings?

  4. #64
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Alright, the latest plan to get the most done for the least:

    Use the 180gr HST bullets I have for my .40cal to reload in 10mm cases and try in the factory 6" barrel.
    Get a 6" Lone Wolf barrel in .40 S&W for HD purposes.


    Most bang for my buck and I like the performance of the HST in every weight I've ever tried it in.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  5. #65
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Alright, the latest plan to get the most done for the least:

    Use the 180gr HST bullets I have for my .40cal to reload in 10mm cases and try in the factory 6" barrel.
    Get a 6" Lone Wolf barrel in .40 S&W for HD purposes.


    Most bang for my buck and I like the performance of the HST in every weight I've ever tried it in.
    I tried some HSTs in my 10, they did "okay" but don't handle the extra velocity that great IME
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  6. #66
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.



    same order, backside
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  7. #67
    Senior Member BigDanS's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post


    same order, backside
    What velocities were those fired at, and what medium did you use? Wet phone books?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings?

  8. #68
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Actually looks like they handled it very well. Expanded and held together. Win!

    I might also also pull some 165gr Gold Dot to try...........for science.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  9. #69
    Senior Member NN's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDanS View Post
    What velocities were those fired at, and what medium did you use? Wet phone books?

    D
    newspaper
    Go Cowboys go

  10. #70
    Member Hondo341's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Actually looks like they handled it very well. Expanded and held together. Win!

    I might also also pull some 165gr Gold Dot to try...........for science.

    Professor Zee?
    "People are responsible to play a role in their own safety." Sheriff David Clarke 2016

  11. #71
    Senior Member LMLarsen's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.
    NRA Endowment Member

  12. #72
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Anybody have 10mm load data for 165gr bullets and Hodgdon Longshot powder?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  13. #73
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDanS View Post
    What velocities were those fired at, and what medium did you use?No clue Wet phone books?

    D
    And as usual, I used soaked newsprint
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  14. #74
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Anybody have 10mm load data for 165gr bullets and Hodgdon Longshot powder?
    I will call QL customer service tomorrow (If I am not busy with the IRS all day on the phone like today). Computer is taking the software ok, but it is not registering my software properly. I think once they get my license code straight, I should be all set.

  15. #75
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Anybody have 10mm load data for 165gr bullets and Hodgdon Longshot powder?
    Running it through QL, 9.3gr w/ 165 SGD looks like close to max.

    I'll be honest though, QL hasn't impressed me with straight wall cases
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Thanks!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  17. #77
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    YW
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  18. #78
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    I finally finished all my mods.

    Williams Adjustable Fire Sight
    Lone Wolf 3.5lb Connector
    Sand Decal Grips
    Lone Wolf +2 Mag Extension
    Lone Wolf .40 S&W Conversion Barrel


    From this:


    To this:


    I have been discretely conducting load development and wandering off the reservation a little in the process.



    Seated the pulled 180gr HST bullets long @ 1.280" COAL originally.
    Initial Longshot Test Loads:
    9.2gr = 1,275 fps
    9.4gr = 1,284 fps
    9.6gr = 1,300 fps
    9,8gr = 1,305 fps
    10.0gr = 1,330 fps

    But, the bullets were dragging in the magazine because they were seated too long. So, the new seat depth was 1.270" COAL and I ran the following loads:

    9.6gr = 1,333 fps
    9.8gr = 1,314 fps
    10.0gr = 1,312 fps
    10.2gr = 1,317 fps

    Seems like, at that seat depth, 9.6 was all she could burn and the rest was wasted.

    Today, I tried 9.6gr Longshot again. This time, one batch with CCI-300 Primers and another with CCI-350 Primers. The grouped the same as to accuracy and their velocity was identical. So, no benefit there.

    I also tried 10.3gr Longshot................just for laughs. It too averaged around 1,315 fps. So, no velocity gain. Looks like 9.6gr Longshot is the winner. And, as per the penetration test I posted in the Science Thread.........1,330 fps is about all the HST bullet can take.

    The new sights really aid in the accuracy of the gun. I like that they are adjustable and the front blade is thinner than the factory one. They stand out well in light.
    The 3.5 pound connector took the trigger pull from 4.5 pounds down to 4 pounds. I might do some more work to the trigger mechanism to get it lower/smoother/etc. I am somewhat disappointed in the Decal Grips. They used to be more aggressive when they originally came out. The company seems to smoothed them down some and, quite frankly, they suck compared to what they once were. Won't be buying them again.

    The Lone Wolf .40 S&W Conversion Barrel was a winner as well.



    It took the velocity of the 155gr HST ammo from 1,230 fps in the factory 10mm barrel to 1,248 fps and improved accuracy as well.



    With the addition of a weapon mounted light, the .40 conversion barrel is my new bed side gun.



    Overall, I am very happy with the gun. Not as nice to shoot as a 1911 and maybe not as accurate. But, recoil is minimal and with the 6" barrel and all the extras I can do with the gun, I think I made the right choice over a 1911. Both in cost and options.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  19. #79
    Senior Member LMLarsen's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Very nice! I went with TruGlo fixed sights on mine, but that's about all for now. Still thinking about that little Venom; if I go that way, 10-8 has some nice highboy sights to go with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.
    NRA Endowment Member

  20. #80
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    I will be doing some 10mm load work with 165gr Winchester "T" Series bullets and maybe some 165gr Speer Gold Dot bullets as well. See how fast I can push them and is they are a viable hunting bullet.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  21. #81
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    I will be doing some 10mm load work with 165gr Winchester "T" Series bullets and maybe some 165gr Speer Gold Dot bullets as well. See how fast I can push them and is they are a viable hunting bullet.
    In my testing, HELL NO for the Ranger, and "doubtful" for the 165 GD

    The 165 Ranger T is the preferred carry ammo for my PM40. Why? because it expands VIOLENTLY from that SHORT barrel @ 40S&W velocities. It's on the verge of coming apart from it. From my G22, the consistently came apart from its slight velocity increase.

    Because of the previous loss of interest in the 10mm round, the vast majority of 0.400" bullets are "optimized" for best performance at 40S&W velocities, including Gold Dots. Even at the lower velocities I'm getting from a 5" bbl with 180 SGDs, they're ending up almost as a round ball "lump". So I expect the lighter (and faster) 165gr version will only be worse.
    RangerT from Kahr

    RangerT from G22 (what I recovered of it)


    Edited to add: Considering going up to the 200gr XTP and see if it will perform any better @ "Max BlueDot" Velocities or Nosler 200s (since they're in stock)
    Last edited by knitepoet; 09-14-2016 at 02:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  22. #82
    Member Smiley's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post
    Considering going up to the 200gr XTP and see if it will perform any better @ "Max BlueDot" Velocities or Nosler 200s (since they're in stock)
    My G29 is loaded with Underwood 10mm 200 XTP.

  23. #83
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Well crap.

    I was hoping they might hold up. But..............Science!!!!

    I'll do it anyway. Expecting failure. So, if I'm gonna shred'em............I'm REALLY gonna shred'em!

    Ha!


    Then, I too might look into the 200gr XTP or a 180gr Hard Cast again.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  24. #84
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post
    In my testing, HELL NO for the Ranger, and "doubtful" for the 165 GD

    The 165 Ranger T is the preferred carry ammo for my PM40. Why? because it expands VIOLENTLY from that SHORT barrel @ 40S&W velocities. It's on the verge of coming apart from it. From my G22, the consistently came apart from its slight velocity increase.

    Because of the previous loss of interest in the 10mm round, the vast majority of 0.400" bullets are "optimized" for best performance at 40S&W velocities, including Gold Dots. Even at the lower velocities I'm getting from a 5" bbl with 180 SGDs, they're ending up almost as a round ball "lump". So I expect the lighter (and faster) 165gr version will only be worse.
    RangerT from Kahr

    Edited to add: Considering going up to the 200gr XTP and see if it will perform any better @ "Max BlueDot" Velocities or Nosler 200s (since they're in stock)
    If you had to pick one, the 165 Ranger T or Gold Dot for me to try, what would it be?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  25. #85
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Well crap.

    I was hoping they might hold up. But..............Science!!!!

    I'll do it anyway. Expecting failure. So, if I'm gonna shred'em............I'm REALLY gonna shred'em!

    Ha!
    .
    With the RangerTs, I suspect you'll find many little pieces of jacket and flakes of lead. GoldDots? Pretty danged hard to get them to blow apart, so for no other reason than that, they'd get the nod of those 2 bullets. And you should be @ 1400fps+ if you push them hard

    I'm glad you're researching them too, maybe you'll find an expanding bullet that can hold up to 10mm vels for hunting, I've pretty much been unable to find one that has given good enough performance in wet newsprint to even warrant further testing.

    Closest I've gotten to the performance I'm looking for is the Fed 135gr EFMJ. Only pushing them 1310fps w/ 12.0 of bluedot and would prefer that they were 165-180gr for hunting purposes, but other than their weight, I'm loving their performance. 3 Jugs and "perfect" expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  26. #86
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Here's tnoutdoor9's tests of the 180SGD and 200XTP, both pushed HARD in Underwood factory ammo.

    He even mentions it's the first time he's ever seen jacket separation in a SGD
    http://youtu.be/sl_n_miLfbY
    Skip to the 4:05 mark to see where he finds the bullet

    The 200 XTP looks MOST promising to me. 16" penetration in his block, through 4 layers of denim. Nice expansion and weight retention. He says the slower Hornady factory loaded 200 XTP penetrated more.
    http://youtu.be/KFUAmIgR918
    his dissection of the block starts at 2:35
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  27. #87
    Member Hondo341's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Wouldn't the 180 XTP be a good choice? At least for a trial. I have always had good luck with them.
    "People are responsible to play a role in their own safety." Sheriff David Clarke 2016

  28. #88
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    FYI, I have NO EARTHLY IDEA how in the HELL Underwood's getting that velocity. Using CIP pressure limits (Higher than SAAMI) I can't get QL to find a US available powder that even breaks 1100fps, much less TNoutdoor9's MEASURED 1262fps from a 4.6" Glock barrel
    Highlights from QL w/ 5" bbl (Charge weights purposely omitted)
    Rottweil P806 case fill 105.0%-------1132fps---------30159pressure ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant POWER PISTOL -- 92.7% ------ 1085 ------------31000 -------- ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate No.7 -------- 89.9----------1081 ------------ 31000 -------- ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Longshot ------71.9%-------1037--------------31000 ---------! Near Maximum !

    I looked and Underwood has switched to Nosler bullets for their 200gr factory load now, so I have no idea where to find any 200 XTPs moving that fast now
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  29. #89
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo341 View Post
    Wouldn't the 180 XTP be a good choice? At least for a trial. I have always had good luck with them.
    Possibly.

    Since there's no way I can push a 200gr at that speed, and Underwood switched to Nosler bullets, the 180 XTP might be my next contender
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  30. #90
    Member Hondo341's Avatar
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    Re: Guess I'm a 10mm Fan Boy now.

    The Hornady sight says the 180gr XTP the best velocity range is between 750fps and 1450fps.

    Now if you are talking 10mm the Hodgdon sight says w/ Longshot powder you can get between 1221fps and 1287fps. That was with a Sierra Jacket HC in a 5" Bbl.
    Alliant says Blue Dot will get you to 1295fps out of a 5" Bbl with a Gold Dot. Don't see why you couldn't use an XTP instead.

    For .40S&W with Hodgdon Longshot you can get 1009-1159fps. And that is with XTPs and a 4" Bbl.
    Alliant says Blue Dot in a 4" Bbl will get 1018fps.

    I have not used Gold Dots except on-duty. Never needed to use them.
    But I have used XTPs in 44spl, 44mag, 45lc, 45 acp, 500JRH. I use the in sabots for muzzleloader as well. I got an 8 point buck and two hogs with the 44XTP in sabots on opening day in 2010.
    "People are responsible to play a role in their own safety." Sheriff David Clarke 2016

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