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Thread: Bad ideas

  1. #1
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    Bad ideas

    I've seen a bunch, but the one that comes to mind today is the holster that was designed to carry a 1911 in Condition three. You charged the gun by pushing down on the butt of the gun while still holstered, and room was allowed for the slide to go rearward and and then forward to put a round in the chamber. You then drew the loaded firearm out of the holster and took care of business...drawing a cocked and unlocked gun from the holster doesn't seem safe to me.

    Anyone remember these, or other not so great ideas?
    Last edited by Gene L; 02-28-2017 at 05:54 PM.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Yeah....stupid ain't a new thing...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"

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    Re: Bad ideas

    So most everyone that draws a striker fired gun is stupid? I have a couple with 3 lb triggers and no pretravel, I must be extra stupid.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Never had a striker fired gun yet that doesn't have a safety on it. It's that thing in the middle of the trigger on most guns. You draw one of these and it's neither cocked nor unlocked. You have to activate the safety to fire the gun.
    Last edited by Gene L; 02-28-2017 at 08:08 PM.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    I've seen a bunch, but the one that comes to mind today is the holster that was designed to carry a 1911 in Condition three. You charged the gun by pushing down on the butt of the gun while still holstered, and room was allowed for the slide to go rearward and and then forward to put a round in the chamber. You then drew the loaded firearm out of the holster and took care of business...drawing a cocked and unlocked gun from the holster doesn't seem safe to me.

    Anyone remember these, or other not so great ideas?
    Oh yeah I remember those! Plenty of gun related stupid stuff has come out over the years. Unfurtunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) most of the really bad ones tend to be "self correcting".
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    Never had a striker fired gun yet that doesn't have a safety on it. It's that thing in the middle of the trigger on most guns. You draw one of these and it's neither cocked nor unlocked. You have to activate the safety to fire the gun.
    Not true. The striker on some guns is partially loaded (cocked) and on others it's 100% loaded as long as you put one in the chamber. Sigs don't have the little trigger dohickey at all. And don't you have to squeeze the trigger on a 1911 as well as the grip safety? What's the difference?
    Last edited by BAMAAK; 02-28-2017 at 08:59 PM.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    No way compatible. You're comparing a striker fired weapon where the gun is only half-cocked with a 1911 on half cock. That won't work. If you grip the 1911 in the way you must to cock, draw, and fire in the holster I mentioned, your hands are in the firing position, with zero safeties in operation. NO ONE recommends carrying a 1911 in that manner, whereas everyone recommends (almost everyone) recommends carrying a Glock as it's meant to be carried. I didn't mean to speak for ALL striker cocked weapons, only the ones I've owned.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
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    Re: Bad ideas

    So in either sceniro all you have to do is squeeze the trigger but they don't compare?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff Jim Wilson on FB
    Rubbing people's noses in stuff is rarely the way to get what you want.

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    Re: Bad ideas

    The half cock notch seems like a bad idea sometimes. When I decided to hunt with my cap lock rifle, I knew I wasn't gonna tote it like that. Got me a cover for the cap and felt better. Aint no way I'd trust an old Colt hogleg or Winchester lever on that notch either. At least the notch on a 1911 serves as a catch if yer thumb slips as long as your finger is off the trigger, but it still a bit un-needed.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by BAMAAK View Post
    So most everyone that draws a striker fired gun is stupid? I have a couple with 3 lb triggers and no pretravel, I must be extra stupid.
    The concept of the holster that Gene is referring to is the stupid I am referring to...
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    Senior Member Dr. db's Avatar
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    Bad ideas

    Wasn't there a Texas Ranger who carried with the grip safety held down with a pace (or piece if you aren't from Texas) of rawhide?i
    Last edited by Dr. db; 03-01-2017 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. db View Post
    Wasn't there a Texas Ranger who carried with the grip safety held down with a pace of rawhide?i
    Charlie Miller IIRC.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. db View Post
    Wasn't there a Texas Ranger who carried with the grip safety held down with a pace of rawhide?i
    IIRC many of them did. Pinnng the grip safety to the frame was also a fairly common modification mid last century. But a lot of those old timers LE folks used to carry the 1911 with a loaded chamber and the hammer down and just thumbed the hammer back while drawing like an old Colt SA too.

    Most folks don't know that was the reason for the shape of the old Detonics slide (bottom gun)
    Also notice the complete lack of grip safety on that gun. And yet I feel perfectly ok carrying it!
    Last edited by Wambli Ska; 03-01-2017 at 12:40 AM.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Re: Bad ideas

    Oh I got two. The J locks that Remington added to their bolts for a few years and then quietly stopped installing after sales went to hell. AND the dumb ass frame locks S&W has on their guns which forces them to photograph every handgun from the lockless side so folks don't puke when they look in their website. Like Remington, they should just STOP...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  16. #16
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    Re: Bad ideas

    One more! Hey Gene did your department ever go to clamshell holsters?
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Re: Bad ideas

    Yep, a long time ago for the clamshells. Back in the day, Model 65s and very high dollar holsters. Took some training to get used to, but it did offer weapon retention. Not too long after that I was no longer in uniform and not restricted to clamshell holsters. They were heavy and covered all but the grips.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
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  18. #18
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    Yep, a long time ago for the clamshells. Back in the day, Model 65s and very high dollar holsters. Took some training to get used to, but it did offer weapon retention. Not too long after that I was no longer in uniform and not restricted to clamshell holsters. They were heavy and covered all but the grips.
    Yep, I assumed you'd had an encounter with those. A buddy of mine retired and he gave me his old duty rig to play with for a few days. Retention was definitely there as you noted, I just could NOT master the draw consistently under any circumstances. Gave it back to him and he just looked at it and said, "Lord I HATE that thing."
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. db View Post
    Wasn't there a Texas Ranger who carried with the grip safety held down with a pace (or piece if you aren't from Texas) of rawhide?i
    Depends on what part of Texas you're from. Some parts like big cities pronounce it like a Yankee, Piece phonetically PEEEECE, then you have those more culturally affected areas where you will hear it pronounced Poace, or out west where you hear it pronounced with a shorter twang as Pace. Just depends on what kind a redneck or what part of Texas you're from.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    An old midwest detective I once worked with was very vocal about his opinion of clamshell holsters. His department issued them back when he was in uniform, and it seems that one day while climbing out of his old radio car, somehow the strap caught on something, the clamshell sprang open, and his S&W 27 went skittering across the pavement.

    He like to say he invented some new words that day.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by LMLarsen View Post
    An old midwest detective I once worked with was very vocal about his opinion of clamshell holsters. His department issued them back when he was in uniform, and it seems that one day while climbing out of his old radio car, somehow the strap caught on something, the clamshell sprang open, and his S&W 27 went skittering across the pavement.

    He like to say he invented some new words that day.
    His boss probly told him to geta model 28
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Took care of a police station back many years ago and my office had a hole in a wall from ad from Smith&Wesson revolver.Go figure cops monkeying around put a hole in their boss's office.if you don't handle safely any type of firearm while go off.I carry my kimber in half cock with safety on.If I need to engage I can move safety and hammer back in same motion. I tried carrying with hammer cocked with safety on but humans make mistakes and I figured it's better to safe not sorry.

  23. #23
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    Re: Bad ideas

    I had to draw once from a clamshell, and did it pretty fast, or fast enough. A woman pointed a gun at me, which turned out to be a phony gun, which I didn't know at the time, so I'm glad I didn't shoot her which may have been justified. She was crazy. She tossed the phony gun as I drew; her reactions were pretty fast too. Not quite as fast as mine, but I saw her hand moving backwards as I drew and the gun went from pointing at me to an arc downward. I was pissed (as you might understand) but didn't charge her; she was crazy and I was thankful I hadn't shot her and it wasn't a real gun. One of those things a cop runs into. Gabriella Kidd was her name. Her sister was Murdell Kidd, both of them were crazy "Characters" in Athens, GA.

    I can't remember getting into a struggle down on the street with one where security was called for, but they were kinda neat looking and did protect the revolver. I kinda went with the flow when we were issued them, as did everyone else. This was in 1977 or so. Who knew?

    I wasn't in uniform all that long...long enough.

    As for "warning shots" a friend of mine was getting his ass kicked down with a bad guy. He was on his back with a 220 guy on top of him pounding him. My buddy cranked off a round beside the assailant's head which ended the fight, so it's not always a bad choice, even though it was against policy where I worked.

    Back when I was working, a prisoner went to a medical call in Athens (outside our county) for a medical problem, which of course we paid for. He was in cuffs, but the nurse insisted on him being freed. He promptly escaped, knocking over the nurse and the doctor. It was pre-planned, btw, a girlfriend was waiting for him. The deputy guarding him fired a warning round which didn't do any good, but did get some complaints, which I ignored or explained (Athens is in a different county.) The metro liberal LEO called me to half-heartedly complain about it since a citizen had beefed and askd if we were going to take any action for a discharge of a firearm in their jurisdiction. I said no except for a counseling. It filled out their report.

    Anyway, we caught the bastard and his girlfriend about four hours later in a cheap motel. Meaning warning shots do not always stop the action, but sometimes they do. Example 1.

    Pardon me for straying.
    Last edited by Gene L; 03-05-2017 at 08:42 AM.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    Never had a striker fired gun yet that doesn't have a safety on it. It's that thing in the middle of the trigger on most guns. You draw one of these and it's neither cocked nor unlocked. You have to activate the safety to fire the gun.
    Quote Originally Posted by BAMAAK View Post
    Not true. The striker on some guns is partially loaded (cocked) and on others it's 100% loaded as long as you put one in the chamber. Sigs don't have the little trigger dohickey at all. And don't you have to squeeze the trigger on a 1911 as well as the grip safety? What's the difference?

    BAMAAK,
    Thought we were talking about "striker fired" guns. Does not apply to 1911s. That is what that pointy thingy is above the "lemon squeezer".
    Called a hammer.

  25. #25
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Read for context much?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician

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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by BAMAAK View Post
    Read for context much?
    It's a lost art.
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    Never had a striker fired gun yet that doesn't have a safety on it. It's that thing in the middle of the trigger on most guns. You draw one of these and it's neither cocked nor unlocked. You have to activate the safety to fire the gun.
    ...and a "safety" which you use in the same motion, with the same finger as the trigger just doesn't seem to scream
    "BAD IDEA!", to you? What if somebody called the edge of a precipice with a 5000 foot drop a "parachute"?

  28. #28
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Danoobie View Post
    ...and a "safety" which you use in the same motion, with the same finger as the trigger just doesn't seem to scream
    "BAD IDEA!", to you?
    No. Don't want it to fire? Don't pull the trigger. Rocket science!
    People who say it can't be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

  29. #29
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    Re: Bad ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    No. Don't want it to fire? Don't pull the trigger. Rocket science!

    Amazing. Isn't it?
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  30. #30

    Re: Bad ideas

    Well, you make it sound simple, until the same
    piece of debris contacts the safety, and also
    depresses the trigger.

    I "don't want it to fire", and that's why I use an
    external safety which is separate from the trigger.

    Please, let's not have the patronizing "training"
    discussion, because a lot of these folks having these
    NDs are very well trained LEOs.

    But rude certainly is in style, this month. Have at it.
    Wouldn't you like to call me some undignified name,
    as you overtly infer that I have a single digit IQ?

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