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Thread: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

  1. #31
    Senior Member Tugar's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    I'd bet 5 out of 5 can't read a sun dial....

    Reading an analog clock is about as useful as learning cursive writing.
    So,....how do you teach them to SIGN their names? Emojis?
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    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Signatures just need to be something unique to the individual signing. Even an "X" will do. It's just traditional that it "has to" be in cursive.
    Overkill is underrated.

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    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by jaywapti View Post
    We also learned to use a Mannheim Trig slide rule, as far as vernier mics and calipers, i still use them.

    JAY
    At home or on the job? I can't believe any manufacturing anywhere in the world would allow vernier inspection instruments. Too slow and inefficient.
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    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tugar View Post
    So,....how do you teach them to SIGN their names? Emojis?
    Bream is correct. Signatures are traditionally cursive. The last time I signed my name with ink, I printed.

    Everything at my job is digital signatures. I just bought a new truck. All of the loan docs were digital.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

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    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Last vehicle the spouse and I bought, I believe we used thumbprint signatures for part of the process.
    Overkill is underrated.

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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by breamfisher View Post
    Signatures just need to be something unique to the individual signing. Even an "X" will do. It's just traditional that it "has to" be in cursive.
    Printing it is just as distinctive - besides, everything is going to on-line authentication anyway - which obviously means that cursive isn't needed after all, even with on-paper/in person transactions.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
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    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Since so much of education is just traditional reading, writing, and arithmetic that can all be done by some electronic means, learning the traditional methods are inefficient and a waste of time. Let's just hand kids a smartphone at age six and tell them to "google it".
    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
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  8. #38
    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by zorba View Post
    Printing it is just as distinctive - besides, everything is going to on-line authentication anyway - which obviously means that cursive isn't needed after all, even with on-paper/in person transactions.
    Shhhh. You're going to give some folks new clouds to yell at.
    Overkill is underrated.

  9. #39
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    Since so much of education is just traditional reading, writing, and arithmetic that can all be done by some electronic means, learning the traditional methods are inefficient and a waste of time. Let's just hand kids a laptop at age six and tell them to "google it".
    FIFY.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
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    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

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    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    Since so much of education is just traditional reading, writing, and arithmetic that can all be done by some electronic means, learning the traditional methods are inefficient and a waste of time. Let's just hand kids a smartphone at age six and tell them to "google it".
    Might as well do that. New York City is handing out Teaching certificates to teachers that can neither read nor write!
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
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    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    Since so much of education is just traditional reading, writing, and arithmetic that can all be done by some electronic means, learning the traditional methods are inefficient and a waste of time. Let's just hand kids a smartphone at age six and tell them to "google it".
    Reading is not a traditional method of education. Neither is arithmetic. I could easily argue writing could be replaced with keyboarding.

    Learning antiquated methods ARE a waste of time. Most of it should be considered "art" and treated as such. If you want to be a blacksmith, go for it. Just don't expect it to pay the bills. Capitalism hates inefficiency.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Learning to read a clock is as unimportant as learning roman numerals. Cursive writing is generally faster than printing, but keyboarding is faster than either.

    Learning proper grammar is important to me, but nowadays basic grammar seems to be taught to schoolkids to pass standardized tests.
    Last edited by Gene L; 03-16-2017 at 09:49 PM.
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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    Learning proper grammar is important to me...
    WORD.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  14. #44
    Senior Member Tugar's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    There was a great video on PBS I think on Dr Marian Diamond. She was very controversial for her paper on glial brain cells (from samples of Einstein's brain), and was lambasted for years until proven right.

    HOWEVER, she STILL lectures, and she writes on the board with chalk. She believes that the act of writing helps the brain commit it to memory on a permanent basis. I thought the same thing in high school. I kept my notes but rarely studied as the act of taking the notes in the first place was usually enough to make an impression.
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    I have an analog clock in my classroom and several of my 7th graders can't use it. And I'm not taking a day to teach it to them either. Most have a cellphone.

  16. #46
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Them folks that can't do MDAS arithmetic, or write, or bother to take notes in school are gonna be up a certain creek without a paddle, in a wire screen boat if the U.S./world ever gets hit with a large magnitude EMP. They won't know if they're washing or hanging out. Try giving change in order to get a bill(s) back instead of change and watch the person behind the counter get a blank look of 'what do I do now?' look on their faces. All those battery powered wonders are just fine until the power dies, or there is no free WiFi. Then you're screwed if you don't know HOW to really do it.

    And what Tugar said about the act of writing something down 'printing' it on your memory is valid. Back when I was in grade school we had to memorize the multiplication tables from 1 thru 12. How did we do that? Repetitively copying them over and over until they were printed on our brains. If you can't remember it and recite it, then you didn't learn it in the first place.

    Good link to see the learning pyramid and how much information one retains from each method.
    http://thepeakperformancecenter.com/...rning-pyramid/
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
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    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    Reading is not a traditional method of education. Neither is arithmetic. I could easily argue writing could be replaced with keyboarding.

    Learning antiquated methods ARE a waste of time. Most of it should be considered "art" and treated as such. If you want to be a blacksmith, go for it. Just don't expect it to pay the bills. Capitalism hates inefficiency.
    Funny, my farrier (blacksmith) made a handsome living. When I sold the ranch and I sold him my 4 year old Ford Superdieasel he paid me in CASH! Never been so nervous on my way to the bank as I was that day...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    At home or on the job? I can't believe any manufacturing anywhere in the world would allow vernier inspection instruments. Too slow and inefficient.
    Too slow and inefficient? But you're for printing and not cursive writing? It takes 10x the time to print an essay than to write it in cursive.

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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    I have been trying like hell to think of some witty retort... I have failed.

    Basically there are plenty of stupid people in this state and all the other states. Just Tuesday afternoon I was praying for the strength to not choke three or four of them. Just until they turned blue, three or four times.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
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    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Too slow and inefficient? But you're for printing and not cursive writing? It takes 10x the time to print an essay than to write it in cursive.
    And typing is far faster than either.
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    And typing is far faster than either.
    Mechanical means can fail. And it benefits to have a fail safe.

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    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Mechanical means can fail. And it benefits to have a fail safe.
    Then you print. You know, so people can read it.
    And all of the "well by gawd when the asteroid hits and the computers all die, no will be able to tell time, make, change, add numbers, etc!"

    If such an event were to happen, the aforementioned items are the LEAST of my concerns Because the whole world would stop.
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    And typing is far faster than either.
    And typing back in the day was a very valuable skill. Now, pretty much anyone can do it. I stopped writing cursive as soon as I could get away with it in 5th grade way back in 1981. I never did write cursive any faster than printing, and my printing is much more legible. Not as legible as my typing, but better than cursive.

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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    And typing is far faster than either.
    And dictating to my iPhone/iPad is much faster than all of the above.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    The reason for cursive writing wasn't so much about speed at the time as it was about lifting the quill pen off the paper over and over-- the less you had to do it, the better and the quill would last longer. You guys are looking back at stuff from decades ago when you should really take a longer view and look back over the centuries.

    The reality is that the "Information Age" started in 1440 with the invention of the printing press. It took a few years for that to take hold, but once it did humanity has advanced exponentially. Cursive started to become obsolete then, while cheap mass produced ball point pens and pencils sealed cursive writing's fate.

    Reading a traditional clock? I think that the schools are doing a disservice to their students. It was part of the curriculum back in the day for me and still should be taught today. Why? Not so much about being able to tell time, but because it introduces important mathematical concepts to kids at an early age that will be useful to them for the rest of their lives. Minutes, seconds, degrees, counting by 5's, quarters and halves-- all that is covered and applied by learning to tell time on a "standard" clock.

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    Senior Member coolgunguy's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Exactly. Even if it's no longer 'necessary', being able to do it still has value.
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    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanator View Post
    The reason for cursive writing wasn't so much about speed at the time as it was about lifting the quill pen off the paper over and over-- the less you had to do it, the better and the quill would last longer. You guys are looking back at stuff from decades ago when you should really take a longer view and look back over the centuries.

    The reality is that the "Information Age" started in 1440 with the invention of the printing press. It took a few years for that to take hold, but once it did humanity has advanced exponentially. Cursive started to become obsolete then, while cheap mass produced ball point pens and pencils sealed cursive writing's fate.

    Reading a traditional clock? I think that the schools are doing a disservice to their students. It was part of the curriculum back in the day for me and still should be taught today. Why? Not so much about being able to tell time, but because it introduces important mathematical concepts to kids at an early age that will be useful to them for the rest of their lives. Minutes, seconds, degrees, counting by 5's, quarters and halves-- all that is covered and applied by learning to tell time on a "standard" clock.
    This is a very valid argument.

    I taught my kids how to read an analog before kindergarten...I remember the math lesson that went along with it.
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    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Funny, my farrier (blacksmith) made a handsome living. When I sold the ranch and I sold him my 4 year old Ford Superdieasel he paid me in CASH! Never been so nervous on my way to the bank as I was that day...
    Blacksmiths can make real money. But they are getting rare, and require a willing apprentice to pass along the skill. As I mentioned, it is an art form.
    The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

    Ayn Rand

  29. #59
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Yep, by having to write:

    "Little Chief" will not talk in class or throw spitballs a hundred times on the chalkboard while the rest of the kids were out enjoying recess made me remember through repetition, or at least try harder not to get caught
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Study: 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students canít read clocks

    Navigating a clock opens the door to understanding circles. Understanding a circle and a triangle is the beginning point for understanding almost everything that is not spiritual or emotional.

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