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Thread: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

  1. #1
    Senior Member jbp-ohio's Avatar
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    Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Wife's Audi maintenance schedule is calling for brake fluid replacement. Which made me think..... I have never heard of anyone actually replacing their brake fluid.

    Do you?
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member Six-Gun's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    My understanding of it is that brake fluid is hygroscopic (that is, takes on water readily). In theory, that could mean water contamination over time, but if I'm being honest, I've never done a full brake line purge, even when my truck was creeping up on 150,000 miles, which was just before I traded it in.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.

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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    I replaced mine in the MBZ too many years ago - I probably need to do it again...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

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    Senior Member Jermanator's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Mine essentially gets replaced when they get bled after brake work.
    Вернём Америке былое величие

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    Senior Member orchidman's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Ha. My brakes dont get used that much so I will pass..............
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....

  6. #6
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanator View Post
    Mine essentially gets replaced when they get bled after brake work.
    Yea, there's that. But that's over 10 years and 100K miles - is that often enough?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  7. #7
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    If it looks like water or piss, its good. Don't waste your money. I've never seen brake lines rust from the inside.

  8. #8
    Senior Member jbp-ohio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    If it looks like water or piss, its good. Don't waste your money. I've never seen brake lines rust from the inside.
    I think it's more to protect the ABS sensors than the lines

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Before they (manufacturers) tightened up on parts tolerances, brake cylinders used to leak enough that brake fluid got replaced by necessity over time.
    Know the truth, for the truth will set you free.

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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    I have once. I replaced the master cylinder on my old Dodge and bled the brakes enough to get clean fluid to them all.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13

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    Senior Member BigDanS's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    If it looks like water or piss, its good. Don't waste your money. I've never seen brake lines rust from the inside.
    It is not about rust, it is about safety.

    In theory, water will find its way to the lowest pont in the system, since brake fluid floats on water, meaning brake fluid with water in it might have water near the caliper where it gets hot. Hot boiling water is a gas and can compress, leading to spongy poorly performing brakes under a load.

    Modern systems are pretty good about keeping the water out, but getting rid of old fluid isn't a bad idea.

    D
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Nowadays you can get gluten-free brake fluid, some brands are artificially sweetened and 0 calories - no sugar or high fructose corn syrup. The fluid squeezed from the pulp of the GMO brake fluid plant is the best - cheaper than the organic, and lasts lots longer.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Never heard of such a thing but hey it's only money. While you do that you might as well have them put nitrogen in the tires it wont go stale as fast as air.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.

  14. #14
    Senior Member wddodge's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDanS View Post
    It is not about rust, it is about safety.

    In theory, water will find its way to the lowest pont in the system, since brake fluid floats on water, meaning brake fluid with water in it might have water near the caliper where it gets hot. Hot boiling water is a gas and can compress, leading to spongy poorly performing brakes under a load.

    Modern systems are pretty good about keeping the water out, but getting rid of old fluid isn't a bad idea.

    D
    Dan is spot on with the theory of replacing brake fluid. I live in disgustingly flat terrain where nobody in there right mind could get brakes that hot. But I'd like to hear from guys that live where 10 miles of 6-7% grades are found. Using only the brakes without a lower transmission gear going down could get the brakes hot enough to get spongy.

    Denny
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    Senior Member coolgunguy's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Like most things, it's probably (somewhat) necessary, but nowhere near as necessary as the folks selling it will tell you.

    Brake dust is one of the reasons they want you to do it. It makes it's way past the seals around the brake pistons and contaminates the fluid.
    Tim Mason

  16. #16
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    There is one very legitimate reason to change brake fluid that hasn't been mentioned- - - - -anti-lock brakes. During normal brake operation the same few ounces of fluid keeps getting cycled in and out of the wheel cylinders and calipers. No problem so far, except that small amount of fluid is constantly exposed to the thermal cycling of repeated brake applications. It gets cooked on a regular basis, whether or not it's apparent. All that energy that gets consumed by burning thousands of gallons of gasoline over 100K miles to get the car moving has to be dissipated somehow to make the thing stop- - - - - -hello, brakes!

    Now let's throw in a panic stop or three which causes all that contaminated fluid to get cycled through a VERY expensive set of solenoid valves while the computer modulates the brakes to keep the car stopping in a relatively straight line, while the driver's bunghole sucks up a couple of inches of upholstery. Now there's all sorts of nasty gunk clogging up solenoid valves with tolerances somewhere in the neighborhood of a strand of hair cut into 10 equal slices. Want to take any bets on whether or not the ABS system is going to work right the next time you need it? A few ounces of fresh brake fluid is pretty cheap life insurance, IMHO!
    Jerry
    Last edited by Teach; 03-20-2017 at 11:43 PM.
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    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by coolgunguy View Post
    Like most things, it's probably (somewhat) necessary, but nowhere near as necessary as the folks selling it will tell you.

    Brake dust is one of the reasons they want you to do it. It makes it's way past the seals around the brake pistons and contaminates the fluid.
    OK, you sell that one to customers?
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.

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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    There is one very legitimate reason to change brake fluid that hasn't been mentioned- - - - -anti-lock brakes. During normal brake operation the same few ounces of fluid keeps getting cycled in and out of the wheel cylinders and calipers. No problem so far, except that small amount of fluid is constantly exposed to the thermal cycling of repeated brake applications. It gets cooked on a regular basis, whether or not it's apparent. All that energy that gets consumed by burning thousands of gallons of gasoline over 100K miles to get the car moving has to be dissipated somehow to make the thing stop- - - - - -hello, brakes!

    Now let's throw in a panic stop or three which causes all that contaminated fluid to get cycled through a VERY expensive set of solenoid valves while the computer modulates the brakes to keep the car stopping in a relatively straight line, while the driver's bunghole sucks up a couple of inches of upholstery. Now there's all sorts of nasty gunk clogging up solenoid valves with tolerances somewhere in the neighborhood of a strand of hair cut into 10 equal slices. Want to take any bets on whether or not the ABS system is going to work right the next time you need it? A few ounces of fresh brake fluid is pretty cheap life insurance, IMHO!
    Jerry
    So... how often?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  19. #19
    Senior Member coolgunguy's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    OK, you sell that one to customers?
    No need to. My stunning good looks does all the selling for me. Stop by some time, I'll sell you something.
    Tim Mason

  20. #20
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by zorba View Post
    So... how often?
    This is the best explanation I have seen yet. Still think don't think it's necessary. When was the last time you activated the ABS on your car? I haven't used ABS in 14 years.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.

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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    This is the best explanation I have seen yet. Still think don't think it's necessary. When was the last time you activated the ABS on your car? I haven't used ABS in 14 years.
    With that logic, since I've never had to shoot anybody, I don't need to clean my guns!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  22. #22

    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    I drive about 175 miles /day in Charleston SC- Ford F150, lots of times towing a trailer, gas to the floor then brake to the floor is the only way to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, I normally drive my trucks at least 250k miles, it was suggested to me to flush the brake fluid on my truck at 150k miles and it improved my brake pedal feel and stopping power so much it is now part of my standard hi mileage routine( 6 trucks). It has made a noticeable difference on all my trucks, Fords, Dodges and Toyotas both 150/1500 sized and 250/2500 sized

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    Senior Member coolgunguy's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    OK, you sell that one to customers?
    Nope. I thought I made it pretty plain that I felt it was only marginally necessary. More so with an ABS vehicle than without, but still a less is more kind of thing, IMO.

    My customers these days are far more concerned with sell by dates and dollar off coupons.

    Oops, answered twice. Use whichever you choose, or ignore both.
    Last edited by coolgunguy; 03-21-2017 at 12:57 AM.
    Tim Mason

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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    There is one very legitimate reason to change brake fluid that hasn't been mentioned- - - - -anti-lock brakes. During normal brake operation the same few ounces of fluid keeps getting cycled in and out of the wheel cylinders and calipers. No problem so far, except that small amount of fluid is constantly exposed to the thermal cycling of repeated brake applications. It gets cooked on a regular basis, whether or not it's apparent. All that energy that gets consumed by burning thousands of gallons of gasoline over 100K miles to get the car moving has to be dissipated somehow to make the thing stop- - - - - -hello, brakes!

    Now let's throw in a panic stop or three which causes all that contaminated fluid to get cycled through a VERY expensive set of solenoid valves while the computer modulates the brakes to keep the car stopping in a relatively straight line, while the driver's bunghole sucks up a couple of inches of upholstery. Now there's all sorts of nasty gunk clogging up solenoid valves with tolerances somewhere in the neighborhood of a strand of hair cut into 10 equal slices. Want to take any bets on whether or not the ABS system is going to work right the next time you need it? A few ounces of fresh brake fluid is pretty cheap life insurance, IMHO!
    Jerry
    This is why I usually flush my fluid every few years or when the system is opened. Fresh fluid definitely improves pedal feel and gives me peace of mind. After 3 years, roughly 3-4 ft up the lines is pretty dark and burnt smelling. With the right tools, it doesn't take too much longer than an oil change.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by zorba View Post
    With that logic, since I've never had to shoot anybody, I don't need to clean my guns!
    Once I clean and oil my firearms they don't need cleaning until they are shot again or a wipe down if they get handled. So yes.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.

  26. #26
    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    There is one very legitimate reason to change brake fluid that hasn't been mentioned- - - - -anti-lock brakes. During normal brake operation the same few ounces of fluid keeps getting cycled in and out of the wheel cylinders and calipers. No problem so far, except that small amount of fluid is constantly exposed to the thermal cycling of repeated brake applications. It gets cooked on a regular basis, whether or not it's apparent. All that energy that gets consumed by burning thousands of gallons of gasoline over 100K miles to get the car moving has to be dissipated somehow to make the thing stop- - - - - -hello, brakes!

    Now let's throw in a panic stop or three which causes all that contaminated fluid to get cycled through a VERY expensive set of solenoid valves while the computer modulates the brakes to keep the car stopping in a relatively straight line, while the driver's bunghole sucks up a couple of inches of upholstery. Now there's all sorts of nasty gunk clogging up solenoid valves with tolerances somewhere in the neighborhood of a strand of hair cut into 10 equal slices. Want to take any bets on whether or not the ABS system is going to work right the next time you need it? A few ounces of fresh brake fluid is pretty cheap life insurance, IMHO!
    Jerry
    My work truck is a 99 Dodge. It had an intermittent problem with pulling to the left under hard braking. Turns out it was the ABS control module and valves had gotten junked up. That's about 2 grand to fix... OTOH, flushing the brake fluid every so often.... much cheaper.

    Oh, and finding a brake control unit for a 99 Dodge Ram ain't easy.
    Overkill is underrated.

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    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    This is the best explanation I have seen yet. Still think don't think it's necessary. When was the last time you activated the ABS on your car? I haven't used ABS in 14 years.
    How do you know this? Does your car send you an email? If you ever drive in the rain and have someone cut in front of you or had some other occurrence cause you to brake aggressively, you have likely activated your ABS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffco View Post
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    How do you know this? Does your car send you an email? If you ever drive in the rain and have someone cut in front of you or had some other occurrence cause you to brake aggressively, you have likely activated your ABS.
    You will know it when the ABS activates. The pulses of releasing and applying the brakes is quite noticeable. My daughter came over one day and told me her truck was shaking when she applied the brakes. I asked her what happened and she said she almost rear ended someone and was standing on the brake hard. The shaking was the ABS doing what it does.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Here's a simple trick that I taught every student who was willing to listen and had more than two or three brain cells that weren't fried by weed or harder drugs- - - - - -every time you change a set of brake pads it's necessary to push the pistons back into the caliper to make room for the new, thick brake pads you're installing. Instead of pushing that nasty-azz fluid that's been in the caliper for months or years back through all those sensitive solenoid valves and back into the master cylinder to contaminate the whole system, just crack the bleeder screw and let the grungy fluid spill out on the floor. Close the bleeder. Reassemble the brakes, top off the master cylinder, and pump the pedal a few times. You just put new, fresh fluid through the most sensitive part of the system, and refilled the calipers with fluid that might not be new, but it's clean. Top off the master cylinder a second time, and you're good to go until the next brake job.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
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  30. #30
    Senior Member TrueTone911's Avatar
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    Re: Everyone with high mileage vehicles.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    You will know it when the ABS activates. The pulses of releasing and applying the brakes is quite noticeable. My daughter came over one day and told me her truck was shaking when she applied the brakes. I asked her what happened and she said she almost rear ended someone and was standing on the brake hard. The shaking was the ABS doing what it does.
    Had to stop in a hurry to keep from plowing into some nimrod the turned left in front of me. The brakes did their job and the nimrod went about her business unharmed. I definitely felt the ABS working.
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