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Thread: Laminated stock warpage?

  1. #1
    Moderator Linefinder's Avatar
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    Laminated stock warpage?

    Anybody ever experience it? I thought it wasn't possible, with a quality stock. (REM factory).

    But I'm beginning to think it happened to me. I'm pretty sure the 1" Krieger barrel didn't get bent.

    Mike
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    What happened? Rifle not shootin right? Sure it's the stock?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Details.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Chief View Post
    What happened? Rifle not shootin right? Sure it's the stock?
    Maybe he is thinking about the bucket

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    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    A machinist could maybe confirm it.

    Stuff happens. Could have been manufactured wrong.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Hey, maybe he had to fight off some Rustlers from Kansas and butt stroked the last couple after he ran outta ammo and warped his stock puttin them down?

    He could make it an interesting story fer us...................................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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    Senior Member MileHighShooter's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    As dry as it is here, you wouldn't think they would warp. Maybe the bedding is coming loose?
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    I missed a couple of yotes a couple if years back at 80 yards with my 6mm Rem. I haven't shot it since. That's the rifle that makes pretty sure work of 700 yard pdogs.

    Anyway, Yesterday I decided to do a good cleaning in anticipation of antelope later this year.

    The action has been previously bedded, and the barrel free floated. Yesterday, when I tried to slide a dollar bill under the barrel, it tore not one, but two in half. The barrel was touching the stock at about the 9 o'clock position. Near the forend. It's never done that before. I actually had to sand a "fair" amount away before a bill would slide unencumbered again.

    I'm stumped.

    Mike
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Did you remove and reinstall the barreled action before sanding? Just to check center and tightness?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Did you remove and reinstall the barreled action before sanding? Just to check center and tightness?
    Yeah. Twice.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Poop.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  12. #12
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    How do you store the rifle? What position/orientation?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Poop.
    Yeah. My sentiments exactly.
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    How do you store the rifle? What position/orientation?
    In the safe, muzzle down.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    You're not helping. You're supposed to confess to some bafoonery.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    You're not helping. You're supposed to confess to some bafoonery.
    C'MON dude. After all these years, it shouldn't take a confession.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Yeah, but we need to narrow down the bafoonery to a potential cause of your troubles. General bafoonery doesn't count.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

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    Senior Member PFD's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Well, since you asked, I ordered a Boyds stock for a Mauser '98 project and cut off enough of the butt to use the scrap as grip panels for a knife project.

    I used the belt sander to sand everything smooth (no proud wood) and then put some sort of finish on it.

    After I lived in Hawaii for a couple of years I got it out and was surprised how much the wood had swollen. You could easily see and feel how much the wood expanded around the tang of the knife.
    That's all I got.

    Paul

  19. #19
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Yeah, but we need to narrow down the bafoonery to a potential cause of your troubles. General bafoonery doesn't count.
    I prefer my buffoonery to be general in nature, since specialized buffoonery cuts down on the opportunities to commit more buffoonery.

    It's simply math, moron.
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by PFD View Post
    Well, since you asked, I ordered a Boyds stock for a Mauser '98 project and cut off enough of the butt to use the scrap as grip panels for a knife project.

    I used the belt sander to sand everything smooth (no proud wood) and then put some sort of finish on it.

    After I lived in Hawaii for a couple of years I got it out and was surprised how much the wood had swollen. You could easily see and feel how much the wood expanded around the tang of the knife.
    And that was a laminated stock? Here, the humidity is high if it hits 20%. Usually it's lower. But...my smith did dig out the barrel channel some, and that's been almost 10 years ago.

    Maybe a lam stock is impervious only when the original finish isn't breached?
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    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linefinder View Post

    Maybe a lam stock is impervious only when the original finish isn't breached?
    I wouldn't think so. They basically saturate the layers before they put it together (I think)
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post
    I wouldn't think so. They basically saturate the layers before they put it together (I think)
    Exactly what I thought. The bedding is good, and the barrel channel was good. This is weird.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member PFD's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linefinder View Post
    And that was a laminated stock? Here, the humidity is high if it hits 20%. Usually it's lower. But...my smith did dig out the barrel channel some, and that's been almost 10 years ago.

    Maybe a lam stock is impervious only when the original finish isn't breached?
    I'm like knitepoet, I thought they were laminated with epoxy or something similar.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    That's all I got.

    Paul

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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    OK, lets talk a minute about laminated wood! (complements of your forestry-saw milling buddy)

    A log on the sawmill is sawn in either what we call "flat-sawn" or "quarter sawn", or some degree in between. Laminated stocks will be much more stable and less subject to shrinkage-expansion if properly flat sawn only wood is used. Look at 100% of German WWII laminated 98k stocks (pre-1944) and you'll see what I'm talking about. If the grain is 30% or more off flat sawn, then you're subject to have some distortion or stock movement in the final product depending on air moisture content. Insist on 100% quarter sawn and you'll probably have no problem with stock movement!

  25. #25
    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Is it possible that the wood shrunk do to extraordinary dryness?
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  26. #26
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    I don't see how the wood would change, but I guess all things are possible. Epoxy could shrink over the years.
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linefinder View Post
    I missed a couple of yotes a couple if years back at 80 yards with my 6mm Rem. I haven't shot it since.

    Mike
    That there might be the problem. Maybe guns are like wimmen, ignore them and when you do finally pay attention they are swollen up with all their bottled up anger......
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    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Quote Originally Posted by PFD View Post
    I'm like knitepoet, I thought they were laminated with epoxy or something similar.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    If the sections in the picture are what you made the scales out of, that's solid end-grain and it's almost impossible to keep it from sucking up moisture like a bunch of little capillary straws. Wood is mostly closed cell and any sealants will only penetrate a certain depth and if the surface is cut, it needs to be resealed like solid wood. When wood is cut and stored to dry for stocks, the end grain is usually sealed to make the wood dry slowly and uniformly and prevent checking. Even with laminated wood, the grain density will vary between the sheets of laminate and some will absorb the adhesive deeper than others. Whenever you cut or sand into it, it's a good idea to reseal it just like you would with solid wood.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    If it's a factory stock, due to mass production it could maybe have some flaws between the laminates and dried uneven over time. Whatever stock it is, it's apparent that it must have warped whether it was caused by uneven sealing or improperly cured wood and you probably need to refinish the whole thing and seal the barrel channel with a good epoxy varnish, or maybe just a few coats of True Oil.
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  30. #30
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Laminated stock warpage?

    Laminate for wood rifle stocks is coated on one side with epoxy and another layer is laid on that. The process is repeated until the desired thickness is reached, then the laminate is put in a hydraulic press that also heats the laminate 'sandwich' to force epoxy into the wood and set the epoxy, and squeeze out any air bubbles. There's a Youtube video out there somewhere on how it's done, but I can't find it. The laminate is made the same way plywood is made as to gluing and pressing; only real difference is the epoxy used for sticking the laminate sheets together, and the thickness of the wood.

    When cut and made into rifle stocks the wood is sealed after the stock is finished; if you do any sanding or otherwise break the sealant then the wood can soak up moisture, because the epoxy does NOT fully penetrate the wood. Free floating a barrel involves breaking that sealant as you remove it with the wood removed. If you don't reseal the wood then it will absorb moisture over time, and it will warp.

    Everyone has their favorite finish for wood stocks. For areas that aren't normally seen except when the barreled action is removed MY personal preference is to use thinned polyurethane spar varnish. The thinned polyurethane soaks into the wood and when dry, seals the wood from moisture intrusion. How much is enough? When it won't absorb a further coating, then it is sealed.

    I ruined a Mauser 98 laminate stock because I didn't seal it after removing enough wood to freefloat the barrel. Barrel was touching about 3 inches at the end of the forend. Over a few years the high humidity here worked its magic and the forend warped. I used the stock later on a 98 carbine; cut off the warped part of the forend, reshaped the forend inside and out, bedded the barrel shank, and sealed the sanded wood with the thinned polyurethane spar varnish. Finished off the entire stock with the unthinned poly and sanded with 600 grit to satin finish. It hasn't warped yet and I did that over 20 years ago.
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