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Thread: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

  1. #31
    Senior Member NN's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    As to the OP.

    I like the Idea, though Jerry's O-ring method needs to be checked out.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member NN's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Chief View Post
    There is that too. I dunno, will .45 Auto-rim fit into a SA .45 Colt with no issues. I know it will fit in .45 ACP DA revolvers to avoid having to use moonies...........????????????????
    I think the rim is tooo thick.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member NN's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Chief View Post
    SAMMI Industry Pressure for a .45 Colt standard load is around 14,000 psi

    For a .45 ACP about +- 22,000 psi

    http://www.saami.org/specifications_...wnload/205.pdf
    What is saami on Ruger only loads?
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  4. #34
    Senior Member NN's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Chief View Post
    Interesting idy. Not sure how loading a short .45 ACP cartridge into a cylinder with throats much longer out will effect the accuracy. It (the bullet) has to travel further from the brass case to the throat where it is slightly squeezed and then has to jump to the forcing cone on the aft end of the revolvers barrel.

    .45 ACP ammo is usually about half the cost of .45 Colt, there is that. Others can chime in on the Convertible revolvers that have both both the .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinders included.

    Issue for some .45 Colt revolvers (other than Rugers and that includes the new Vaquero which can still take Tier II loads) is they were not made to or may not be able to handle the higher pressures of the .45 ACP cartridge. Especially the imports.

    I use Moon Clips with my S&W model 625 .45 ACP revolver or not because it fires W/O just fine, but extraction is slow. I shoot .45 Colt outta my Vaquero and don't know why I would want to fire .45 ACP ammo from it since I reload for both.

    You may or may not of found a marketable niche to fill.

    Anyhow, let us know what you finally come up with. Good luck.
    We've talked about this; my 625's chambers are too deep to shoot without the clip and there must be some gap jump issue; but, it does not seem to
    compromise accuracy. So this might work for me since I use one 1/3 clips at a time to prevent bullet pulling with most .45 acp ammo.
    1/3 clips work ok; but, are harder to get the empty case out of the clip.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by NN View Post
    How reusable would that O-ring method be? Just any O-Ring that fits the groove on the case? I'd like to try that and do it at the shoot if it works ok with a redhawk 45 cold.
    Not sure how "Cold" it's going to be Neduardo
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  6. #36
    Senior Member NN's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post
    Not sure how "Cold" it's going to be Neduardo
    It's officially Nutty Ned
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  7. #37
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by NN View Post
    It's officially Nutty Ned
    Yessir Nutty Ned sir
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Guess not because here they say the Auto-rim is too thick for it to work in a .45 Colt revolvers.

    Also they speak of the .45 Cowboy and I believe reference a former forum member????

    http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...-rim-45lc.html
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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  9. #39

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    I am glad to see so many good replies! This is getting good! In case you missed the second video I posted, and I know it sucks...lol Here it is again...I think I should have posted it first. Disregard if you've seen it ...ok Just the way I posted, it was easy to overlook.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVFJtWGGexE
    Last edited by gstmkr007; 05-18-2017 at 11:35 PM.

  10. #40
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Chief View Post
    SAMMI Industry Pressure for a .45 Colt standard load is around 14,000 psi

    For a .45 ACP about +- 22,000 psi

    http://www.saami.org/specifications_...wnload/205.pdf
    All the Ubertis etc are available in .357 mag and now even a .44 mag on the same frame size. I don't think a 45ACP will be a issue but yes, I'd post some disclaimer if it was my product...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  11. #41
    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Another thing is that new powders make it very easy to down load big cases like 45 Colt and the bigger cartridges are easier to handle.

    Inventive thinking and tinkering can lead to great things though. I wouldn't get discouraged. There may be better application beyond my vision.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Seems almost (but not quite everything) in the 'Gun World' has been tried before to one extent or the other. Some more successful than others. Some tried and true designs just work and continue to work over time. Some are fads that fade away, but seemed like a good idy at the time. Some have minimal impact on making a better mouse trap, but some make everyone say..........dang why didn't I think of that or it's about time someone came up with a fix or solution to a real issue. Others are fixes to a problem that doesn't exist.

    Pretty much find it all interesting, though.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
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  13. #43
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    It's .45 Colt no long in it.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.

  14. #44

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    It's .45 Colt no long in it.
    I believe you are right.... excellent observation! This quote is from a well know source ... "It is sometimes referred to as .45 Long Colt or .45 LC, to differentiate it from the shorter .45 S&W Schofield, as both were used by the Army at the same period of time prior to the adoption of the M1887 Govt.[1] Current catalog listings of compatible handguns list the caliber as .45 LC. and .45 Colt "

  15. #45
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    AAAAANNNNNNDDDDDD- - - - - - - -Buford scores another one!

    Jerry
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  16. #46

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Here is some interesting data.

    The Ruger Blackhawks and Bisley models chambered for .45 Colt are approximately 80% as strong as the same Ruger chambered for .44 magnum. This means we can load the .45 Colt to 80% of the pressure of the .44 Magnum round and still maintain the 100% safety level. 80% of 40,000 is 32,000.

    To check our findings we again turned to H.P White Labs and their findings paralleled ours. Ruger Blackhawks in .45 Colt caliber were destroyed in controlled test conditions at approximately 60,000 CUP pressure levels.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I think a modern 45 colt cylinder can safely handle the 21,000 cup as long as it is in solid condition... and clearly the blackhawk is an awesome gun... I think the frame would go first on lesser guns before the cylinder would blow.

  17. #47
    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    The Blackhawk is the same frame unless its a Vaquero. The other makes I'd be more concerned with the lockwork than the cylinder, although the edges of the bolt stop notches could get peened if mistreated.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  18. #48

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    It would be cheaper than machining the cal. on my SRH to run .45ACP in moon clips through it. Triple chambering .454, 45Colt, .45ACP
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov

  19. #49
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by NN View Post
    How reusable would that O-ring method be? Just any O-Ring that fits the groove on the case? I'd like to try that and do it at the shoot if it works ok with a redhawk 45 cold.
    Really wouldn't worry about reuse. A bag of several 100 O-Rings is just a few bucks. I'm going shooting the 28th I'll try the O-ring trick with a 45 ACP in my Ruger 454 Casull.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.

  20. #50
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    It would be cheaper than machining the cal. on my SRH to run .45ACP in moon clips through it. Triple chambering .454, 45Colt, .45ACP
    True and .45acp in that gun would be like a nice afternoon plinking with .22s. As I said the idea is growing on me.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  21. #51

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Buford View Post
    Really wouldn't worry about reuse. A bag of several 100 O-Rings is just a few bucks. I'm going shooting the 28th I'll try the O-ring trick with a 45 ACP in my Ruger 454 Casull.
    Good luck with the O rings guys...I wasted a few days on that theory...and several bucks... LOL They wont bend around the corner...you will see what I mean!
    Last edited by gstmkr007; 05-19-2017 at 02:12 PM.

  22. #52
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    This has turned into a good thread - I mean, it even roused Buford out of his slumber - good stuff.

    Bottom line, for me - I have never bought a .45 Colt, because buying or handloading .45 Colt just seemed like an unnecessary expense, when I already have .44's and .357's. I have passed on revolvers I really liked because I just didn't want to take on a new chambering that is so close to what can be done in .44.

    If the O-rings work, great. If they don't work, and the new invention does, at a reasonable price, I might get something in .45 Colt, to shoot .45 ACPs through, when plinking. Basically, I am just the type of customer that the 'ACC' is targetting.

    P.S. - If the 'ACC' truly turns out to be the answer to this question, I think it should be marketed in 50 round packages, so that practice ammo can be converted and re-labeled a box at a time (of practice ammo). And, a converted box should end up costing considerably less than a box of .45 Colt practice ammo.
    Last edited by bisley; 05-19-2017 at 02:52 PM.

  23. #53
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    On the other hand, the 'ACC' can be re-used many times, so there is wiggle room on the price I would pay. If it works really well, there is opportunity for the gun manufacturer to include them in the sale.

  24. #54
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    If it works really well, there is opportunity for the gun manufacturer to include them in the sale.
    Never gonnna happen. Because lawyers.
    Gun makers specifically say "no reloaded anmo! " They dang sure won't include something that lets someone shoot a cartridge the gun wasn't designed for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

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  25. #55

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    This has turned into a good thread - I mean, it even roused Buford out of his slumber - good stuff.

    Bottom line, for me - I have never bought a .45 Colt, because buying or handloading .45 Colt just seemed like an unnecessary expense, when I already have .44's and .357's. I have passed on revolvers I really liked because I just didn't want to take on a new chambering that is so close to what can be done in .44.

    If the O-rings work, great. If they don't work, and the new invention does, at a reasonable price, I might get something in .45 Colt, to shoot .45 ACPs through, when plinking. Basically, I am just the type of customer that the 'ACC' is targetting.

    P.S. - If the 'ACC' truly turns out to be the answer to this question, I think it should be marketed in 50 round packages, so that practice ammo can be converted and re-labeled a box at a time (of practice ammo). And, a converted box should end up costing considerably less than a box of .45 Colt practice ammo.
    You Sir Have hit the nail on the head! I have come to the same conclusion on everything you have said here including the 50 round packs. You have my total respect!!

  26. #56

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    Never gonnna happen. Because lawyers.
    Gun makers specifically say "no reloaded anmo! " They dang sure won't include something that lets someone shoot a cartridge the gun wasn't designed for.
    I agree on the second part of this statement. These will never be accepted by the gun manufacturers.
    Last edited by gstmkr007; 05-19-2017 at 04:06 PM.

  27. #57
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by gstmkr007 View Post
    I agree on the second part of this statement. These will never be accepted by the gun manufacturers.
    I disagree. I think a case can be made for them if the right approach is used.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  28. #58
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    I disagree. I think a case can be made for them if the right approach is used.
    Whatever case you make will be heard as:
    "Dear _______ ,(insert gunnmaker of choice) I have a plastic clip that goes on a .45 ACP case that allows it to be fired in your 45 colt revolver. Buy them from me. That way if something goes bad, (because of people's stupidity and penchant for lawsuits) they will sue you, instead of me, because your pockets are deeper than mine and you are the one who provided them. "
    This would be an extreme niche market. Made the oddball gun owners, not the masses. Not to mention, revolvers don't have the market share that semi autos have. Gunmakers won't even consider this as an addition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

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  29. #59
    Senior Member Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Cool concept.

    Have you done any accuracy testing of any kind? Shooting from a good rest off a bench, compare accuracy between the 45 Colt and 45 ACP out of the same gun? I would be curious to see results such as that.

    I have loaded 230 grain .451 45acp bullets in 45 Colt cases and got reasonable accuracy. 45 Colt bullets generally tend to be .452. Bullet diameter, in itself, shouldn't be a problem. But, I can see how that plus the long jump to the cylinder throat and forcing cone, plus the 45acp round probably not sitting straight in the cylinder when firing, could hurt accuracy. Almost certainly, I'd expect poor accuracy shooting them out of a 454 Casull chamber. I was never able to get a 45 colt load to shoot well out of my 460 S&W Mag chamber. I believe the long bullet jump to the throat and bullets hitting the forcing cone crooked was a part of it. Of course, in that case, I was also dealing with a gain twist barrel, so I couldn't rule that out as well. I just couldn't see that hurting accuracy as much as the long jump from case mouth to throat. Keeping in mind, I do pretty much all of my handgun load testing at 25 yards and further.

    Of course, if the purpose is just for plinking and minute of soda can at 7 yards, might be just fine. I'd be really curious to see some accuracy testing, just for fun.
    Last edited by Jay; 05-19-2017 at 05:08 PM.

  30. #60

    Re: Introducing Myself and My Ammunition Conversion Clip

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Cool concept.

    Have you done any accuracy testing of any kind? Shooting from a good rest off a bench, compare accuracy between the 45 Colt and 45 ACP out of the same gun? I would be curious to see results such as that.

    I have loaded 230 grain .451 45acp bullets in 45 Colt cases and got reasonable accuracy. 45 Colt bullets generally tend to be .452. Bullet diameter, in itself, shouldn't be a problem. But, I can see how that plus the long jump to the cylinder throat and forcing cone, plus the 45acp round probably not sitting straight in the cylinder when firing, could hurt accuracy. Almost certainly, I'd expect poor accuracy shooting them out of a 454 Casull chamber. I was never able to get a 45 colt load to shoot well out of my 460 S&W Mag chamber. I believe the long bullet jump to the throat and bullets hitting the forcing cone crooked was a part of it. Of course, in that case, I was also dealing with a gain twist barrel, so I couldn't rule that out as well. I just couldn't see that hurting accuracy as much as the long jump from case mouth to throat. Keeping in mind, I do pretty much all of my handgun load testing at 25 yards and further.

    Of course, if the purpose is just for plinking and minute of soda can at 7 yards, might be just fine. I'd be really curious to see some accuracy testing, just for fun.
    I do plan to do further testing for accuracy .... and I suspect it will be more acceptable at the shorter ranges, but only testing it will tell... Does anyone have a 45 colt in single or double action machined for the moon clips? How is the accuracy on those?...should be a good comparison.
    Last edited by gstmkr007; 05-19-2017 at 06:00 PM.

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