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Thread: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

  1. #91
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    I'm not surprised. This case is a BFD, which some here seem determined for their own reasons to minimize and passed it off as just another example of ordinary police corruption. The mayor is trying to survive, and probably she will.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Doesn't sound like a place I'd want to live anywhere near. What the heck has happened
    to this country? The Mayor seems like a fruit cake!

  3. #93
    Senior Member Make_My_Day's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Don't know if anyone caught it on FOX last night, but a group of BLM left-wing activists shouted her down at a press conference on live TV. I don't know anything about this mayor, but at least one group is not happy with her.
    I DISLIKED COMMUNISTS BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAMES TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES

  4. #94
    Senior Member Make_My_Day's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    Surprise- - - - -surprise- - - - -a bi-racial mob is demanding the mayor's resignation now. Maybe for the first time in recorded history there's going to be some outrage over a non-black shooting victim.

    Or maybe they just need an excuse to scream?

    Jerry
    More likely than not.
    I DISLIKED COMMUNISTS BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAMES TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES

  5. #95
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by 104RFAST View Post
    Doesn't sound like a place I'd want to live anywhere near. What the heck has happened
    to this country? The Mayor seems like a fruit cake!
    Minneapolis and St. Paul are most definitely not representative of MN, but, they got the liberal vote along with the concentrated population in Hennepin and Ramsey Counties so we get mayors and Governors like we have.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11

  6. #96
    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHIRO1989 View Post
    Minneapolis and St. Paul are most definitely not representative of MN, but, they got the liberal vote along with the concentrated population in Hennepin and Ramsey Counties so we get mayors and Governors like we have.

    Yep, Minnesota is awesome as a whole, and like every other state with an large urban concentration. The cities dominate the rest of the state politically.
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  7. #97
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    Yep, Minnesota is awesome as a whole, and like every other state with an large urban concentration. The cities dominate the rest of the state politically.
    Yep. Makes you kind of wish counties only got 1 vote a piece in each state, regardless of population in that county.

    It'd be republican presidents until the end of days.
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  8. #98
    Senior Member Buford's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMPD View Post
    Yep. Makes you kind of wish counties only got 1 vote a piece in each state, regardless of population in that county.

    It'd be republican presidents until the end of days.
    One can only hope.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Georgia used to have the County Unit System, which apportioned votes in a similar manner, except it gave more voting power (6-2-1) to Rural counties since there were far more of them than City Counties or Town Counties. It was declared un-constitutional in 1962, I believe. One man, one vote was established.

    Same idea here. Urban counties pay a lot more in taxes than rural counties, and the US House of Representatives is based on reps per population.
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  10. #100
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    They heard a loud noise. MPD will declare this a clean shoot because "they feared for their lives".

    Taxpayers will foot the bill. Nothing else will happen.


    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...719-story.html
    Want to revise that initial post?
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  11. #101
    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    Want to revise that initial post?

    Has Noor been arrested and charged?
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  12. #102
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Just reread CaliFFLs original post again, and noticed this:


    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...719-story.html

    The police department's internal affairs unit can compel Noor to give a statement as part of its own investigation, and fire him if he refuses, but that statement cannot be used against him in any criminal investigation, Friedberg said.

    Assistant Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said that an internal use-of-force investigation has been opened, which is standard any time an officer discharges a weapon. The police chief has asked that the review be expedited, but much of the information needed is in the hands of state investigators.


    So somebody 'splain to me again why he should not be cooperating with the department's internal affairs department.
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  13. #103
    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tennmike View Post
    Just reread CaliFFLs original post again, and noticed this:

    So somebody 'splain to me again why he should not be cooperating with the department's internal affairs department.
    Obviously, IA isn't pressing the issue.

    There's some lawyer scrambling going on. Can't have yet another MPD cop on trial, can't have the first Somali cop on trial, and can't have a "fast track" trainee on trial so soon after graduating the academy.

    We'll get a story about ambushes and loud noises and reasonable fear. They'll maybe throw in the "she made a furtive movement" which caused Noor to draw and fire his weapon.

    Rinse and repeat.
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  14. #104
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by tennmike View Post
    Just reread CaliFFLs original post again, and noticed this:


    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...719-story.html

    The police department's internal affairs unit can compel Noor to give a statement as part of its own investigation, and fire him if he refuses, but that statement cannot be used against him in any criminal investigation, Friedberg said.

    Assistant Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said that an internal use-of-force investigation has been opened, which is standard any time an officer discharges a weapon. The police chief has asked that the review be expedited, but much of the information needed is in the hands of state investigators.


    So somebody 'splain to me again why he should not be cooperating with the department's internal affairs department.
    Well, speaking completely off the cuff... it's likely he doesn't want to tarnish himself by outing that he not only negligently fired the gun, but may have done so criminally.

    Garrity Rights protect employees from having Garrity Statements made available to criminal prosecution. However, that area is more gray regarding civil litigation.

    The plain fact of the matter is that most cities provide for immediate termination of an employee who will not provide a Garrity Statement when ordered citing insubordination. We'll see how Minneapolis handles it.
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  15. #105
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    Obviously, IA isn't pressing the issue.

    There's some lawyer scrambling going on. Can't have yet another MPD cop on trial, can't have the first Somali cop on trial, and can't have a "fast track" trainee on trial so soon after graduating the academy.

    We'll get a story about ambushes and loud noises and reasonable fear. They'll maybe throw in the "she made a furtive movement" which caused Noor to draw and fire his weapon.

    Rinse and repeat.
    You'd be surprised. Often IA Divisions don't move at a pace quicker than the official state investigation in cases of possible severe civil or criminal wrongdoing. They will work in parallel instead. The criminal investigation may yield additional ammo the IAD can use against the officer prior to issuing a Garrity order.
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  16. #106
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Noor has (I'm sure) been issued a Garrity, and under advice of his lawyer refused to make a statement. He'll be fired for this by MPD, I believe. If an admission of a crime under Garrity is made, at the time Miranda is read, since a compelled statement can't be used nor can any evidence resulting from that statement without consent. So I seriously doubt any statement from Noor is needed. It is what it is. Since the argument "I heard a noise" hasn't been used and the Chief of Police has resigned and the other officer has given a statement, I seriously doubt this will be a defense, since it requires a statement from Noor for it to even be entered into evidence.

    For charges, you have a dead woman, a fired round or more, an officer who has made a statement presumably under Garrity, forensic evidence, and possibly a bicyclist witness and possibly other information.

    For defense? A guy who is standing mute?
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  17. #107
    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Honestly guys...Noor should fry for this. But based on precedent, IMO he'll walk, even if it goes to trial. Cops have a 96% acquittal rate.

    If ANYONE not wearing a uniform committed this act, they'd be in jail waiting trial.


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  18. #108
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    If ANYONE not wearing a uniform committed this act, they'd be in jail waiting trial.
    If ANYONE not wearing a uniform committed this act...............you wouldn't care.
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  19. #109
    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    If ANYONE not wearing a uniform committed this act...............you wouldn't care.

    If anyone other than a government employee committed this act, they'd face charges. I wouldn't have to care. The government is supposed to protect the rights of the citizens. Unless it's a government employee. Then there's a different set of laws. Garrity, qualified immunity, unions, etc.

    Two sets of rules. One for us, and one for gov.com.
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  20. #110
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Another cop's view, with which I agree.

    Southern California police officer Jack Dunphy (a pseudonym) writes at PJ Media that Noor’s going to face criminal charges, and he’s likely to get convicted (via Instapundit):

    But remember, under the rules established by the U.S. Supreme Court in Graham v. Connor, an officer may use force only when it is reasonably necessary to defend himself or another from death or serious injury. And, said the court, a use of force must be judged “from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.” If an officer fires at someone whom he reasonably believes is a threat, even if that belief proves to be mistaken, the shooting will be deemed lawful.

    And now the question: Would a reasonable officer have acted as Noor did? This is not merely a theoretical question, for as it happened there was an officer (whom we may presume to be reasonable) seated right next to Noor. Officer Harrity, who was in a position to see and hear the same things Noor did, did not fire his weapon. I would argue that no reasonable officer would have.

    Assuming that Noor does not present a defense that claims the shooting was accidental, his only hope to avoid a conviction is to find a police use-of-force expert who can persuade the jury that, from Noor’s perspective, Damond’s sudden appearance at the side of the police car, taken together with the loud noise reported by Officer Harrity, constituted a deadly threat. This is laughable, but one can find so-called “experts” to testify to almost anything, and we can expect this sort of testimony in the case should Noor not accept a plea deal and proceed to trial.

    The jury won’t buy it, and neither should you. Noor is headed to prison, and deserves it.
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  21. #111
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Gene, I'll add a few things ...

    The unit was sent because of a reported possible assault so the 2 officers should have been on a high alert ... they weren't just sitting there. Being at a heightened awareness level should have had Noor's head on a swivel and he be harder to "startle".

    I do not know if LEOs legally should be held to a higher standard but I believe they should have a greater ability in a "shot - don't shoot" situation ... kinda like a doctor would be held to a higher standard if rendering aid to an accident victim. Yeah, I know it's not quite the same but Noor had training and I'd guess even a few supplemental classes after his completion of BLET.

    As it stands now, unless it's proved Damond jumped out of the shadows yelling BOO the standards of a LEO should be high enough to not pull the trigger ... maybe draw his firearm but not pull the trigger ... because it violates the 3rd rule of gun safety "know your target and what is beyond it". If an ordinary citizen had done this they would be charged with at least involuntary manslaughter because of what would be called a negligent or reckless action. Most ordinary citizens do not have the level of training and competence that a LEO does thus his level of negligence in firing at a target he had not identified would be a higher level. I won't say he should be brought up on 1st or 2nd degree murder unless something comes out to really cast a big question on his decision process but his negligent (and I'd call it grossly negligent) discharge or his firearm lead to a death and he should be charged with manslaughter to some degree. I personally don't think IA, the DA or Grand Jury will let this slip by ... at least I hope my belief at least that portion of the justice system will work ... the jury and appellate stuff depends on where and what bail of goods a lawyer can sell.
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  22. #112
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    I find it somewhat disconcerting that so many here have already convicted this officer with absolutely nothing to go on but media hype. If Officer Noor is indicted, and any of you were called to jury duty for this case, none of you would survive the jury selection process and be empanelled. And thank God for that. Noor is innocent until proven guilty, and that can only happen upon the due and diligent consideration, by an impartial jury, of the testimony and cross-examination of sworn witnesses, and examination of any exhibits entered into evidence.

    How easily led and directed some of you are. A handful of press stories and you go headfirst off the cliff of civilization into the quicksand of mob mentality and group think. Well, pull your heads out! Wait until all the facts come to light, all sides have been heard, and the jury and public have been instructed by the judge with the law to be applied. Until then, be patient, keep calm, and carry on. Do not pre-judge, lest you be pre-judged. Heaven help us.

  23. #113

    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    The jury won’t buy it, and neither should you. Noor is headed to prison, and deserves it.
    The jury will buy it, just as they did when a jury acquitted Officers Ramos and Cincinelli in the beating death of Kelly Thomas despite a video which clearly showed them committing the act.

  24. #114
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    No one is saying hang 'em high based on media reports, what most are saying is there was a shooting of an unarmed woman who called 911 to report a possible rape and that woman was shot. All the facts and circumstances will not be known until it comes before a court, and possibly not even then. A couple of people are saying justice will never be served because the shooter is a LEO. I don't agree with that.

    I think we're entitled to some inferences from what we know, which is the facts posted above. None of us will ever be on any kind of jury so our opinions based on what much or what little we know is confined to this thread. The chief of police resigned over this, saying the woman should not have been shot and the mayor of Minneapolis is under fire because of Noor's actions. No, I'm sure neither of them have all the facts, but one assumes they have more facts than the media.

    What is SOUNDS like is a cop shot a woman who was unarmed and offering no clear and present danger to the officer. If there is any information contradicting this, I'm sure MPD would like to hear it and especially Noor's defense lawyer would like to hear it. A long-time LEO like myself is entitled to draw logical conclusions. If additional information comes out proving this inference wrong, I will then cheerfully admit my error.
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  25. #115
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6EQUJ5 - WOW! View Post
    The jury will buy it, just as they did when a jury acquitted Officers Ramos and Cincinelli in the beating death of Kelly Thomas despite a video which clearly showed them committing the act.
    Ask Drew Peterson and Charles Oswalt how much slack a jury gave them for being cops.
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  26. #116
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    "Licensed to kill" is a fantasy created for James Bond by the late Ian Fleming. I doubt if the cop's training made him believe that he had that privilege, and let's hope a jury doesn't choose to let him get away with it. At least Bond would have chosen to have a good roll in the hay with the woman before he shot her!
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  27. #117
    Senior Member CaliFFL's Avatar
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    http://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireSto...woman-48824605


    Setting the stage for Noor to walk.


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  28. #118
    Senior Member CHIRO1989's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliFFL View Post
    http://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireSto...woman-48824605


    Setting the stage for Noor to walk.


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    Slapping the car to alert the officers to your presence as you approach them in their car seems like a reasonable thing to do, obviously it was not in this case.

    How bad are his partners ears after he got a service pistol touched off in the car right in front of him?
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11

  29. #119
    Senior Member JasonMPD's Avatar
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    Re: Austrailian Woman shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHIRO1989 View Post
    Slapping the car to alert the officers to your presence as you approach them in their car seems like a reasonable thing to do, obviously it was not in this case.

    How bad are his partners ears after he got a service pistol touched off in the car right in front of him?
    Seated, drawing a gun, seeing a person, reaching across his partner... easily a 2 second event. And he couldn't identify and assess? I have not so much faith in this Noor fellow.
    "If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan on the economic philosophy of big government.

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