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Thread: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

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    A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    A bunch of errors paid for by the guards' lives, mainly (I think) from a false sense of security from doing the job for a while that led to fatal carelessness. I'm sure this isn't the first time these mistakes were made by these and others where nothing terrible ever happened. But it only takes once, and this is something to consider when carrying every day and dealing with what seems to be everyday situations.

    http://www.macon.com/news/local/crim...162857998.html
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    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Maybe an anual inpection by an outside agency that consults and makes recommendations could help keep a lid on complacency.
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    In my opinion Corrections officers should be certified cops. And they should be armed at all times with backup.

    My ex wife was a jailer for two years and finally gave it up because she was unarmed. She felt naked going in those cells by herself. She went back to being a custodian taking a $2 per hour pay cut. They didn't want her to do this as she was an excellent jailer. She passed all her certification the first time and they never had a complaint about her work. She was a model Jailer, she just felt threatened going into some of those cells.
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Well, they had a pretty thorough examination on what went wrong. An added level of enforcement of the existing rules, strip searches, and remaining armed when the guards are supposed to remain armed is necessary. I'm sure other guards are more on their toes since this happened and their supervisors are motivated to enforce the protocols already in place. Hard to believe this escape was made so easy by a prison toothbrush and a plastic spoon.
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    You have never seen what inmates can do with things you would never believe can be made into weapons. I've seen Mylanta bottles turned into bombs, mop buckets turned into shanks, etc. I've been doing this gig for about 15 years now, and every year I see something else most people wouldn't believe - did you know a spork will fit in a urethra?
    If the mistakes made were as described in the article...no amount of training or equipment would have saved those staff. They set themselves up for ultimate failure. Changes like auto locking bus compartment doors and such might have helped, but I have seen staff, (former staff, if I can arrange it!), do the DUMBEST things to "make it easier", cutting corners until they get cut. ALWAYS expect an inmate to try for your weapon, ALWAYS expect the inmate to attempt to escape, etc. From reading the article, and comparing it to the way we conduct business - nope. Those two would still be in custody today and the two staff would be alive, working at a unit, because they would have gotten in trouble the first time they tried something like this, and would never be on a transport again. Also, off site Statewide Transportation is a good job that staff compete for, and they bust buns to make sure they are at the top of their game to keep that job when they get it.

    snake284, thank you, but since most corrections departments pay much less than police departments, if staff get POST certified, they are gone. We aren't required to be POST certified because we don't need to make arrests. I would love to have that here, but the reality is, since we haven't had a raise in 12 years now, if we went full POST, instead of just firearms, my shift would evaporate overnight. Also, carrying inside the wire is a VERY bad idea, as it gives inmates weapons. We are outnumbered sometimes 100-1, and a handgun on the yard will be snatched. We have OC, radios and wits.

    Gene L The toothbrushes we issue now are incredibly short, have to grasp the flat end like a spoon to reach for the back teeth, because toothbrushes have been made into weapons for years. The "sporks" we use are actually quite heavy duty plastic, needing to be washed, on the yards - lock down "sporks" are quite flimsy single use things. Strip searches, done PROPERLY, are key on transports, plus proper use of restraints and following freaking policy! I will hold staff accountable for violating policy and procedure, but I will also do my best to teach them the RIGHT way first, because I don't want them to fail, I want them to succeed.
    One day I watched 7 of my staff go out the gate in ambulances for a chow hall riot that took 24 seconds start to finish. I never, ever want to see that again.

    BTW, private prisons use security guards - state and county are generally correctional officers.

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    Senior Member CHIRO1989's Avatar
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Quote Originally Posted by Armoredman View Post
    You have never seen what inmates can do with things you would never believe can be made into weapons. I've seen Mylanta bottles turned into bombs, mop buckets turned into shanks, etc. I've been doing this gig for about 15 years now, and every year I see something else most people wouldn't believe - did you know a spork will fit in a urethra?
    If the mistakes made were as described in the article...no amount of training or equipment would have saved those staff. They set themselves up for ultimate failure. Changes like auto locking bus compartment doors and such might have helped, but I have seen staff, (former staff, if I can arrange it!), do the DUMBEST things to "make it easier", cutting corners until they get cut. ALWAYS expect an inmate to try for your weapon, ALWAYS expect the inmate to attempt to escape, etc. From reading the article, and comparing it to the way we conduct business - nope. Those two would still be in custody today and the two staff would be alive, working at a unit, because they would have gotten in trouble the first time they tried something like this, and would never be on a transport again. Also, off site Statewide Transportation is a good job that staff compete for, and they bust buns to make sure they are at the top of their game to keep that job when they get it.

    snake284, thank you, but since most corrections departments pay much less than police departments, if staff get POST certified, they are gone. We aren't required to be POST certified because we don't need to make arrests. I would love to have that here, but the reality is, since we haven't had a raise in 12 years now, if we went full POST, instead of just firearms, my shift would evaporate overnight. Also, carrying inside the wire is a VERY bad idea, as it gives inmates weapons. We are outnumbered sometimes 100-1, and a handgun on the yard will be snatched. We have OC, radios and wits.

    Gene L The toothbrushes we issue now are incredibly short, have to grasp the flat end like a spoon to reach for the back teeth, because toothbrushes have been made into weapons for years. The "sporks" we use are actually quite heavy duty plastic, needing to be washed, on the yards - lock down "sporks" are quite flimsy single use things. Strip searches, done PROPERLY, are key on transports, plus proper use of restraints and following freaking policy! I will hold staff accountable for violating policy and procedure, but I will also do my best to teach them the RIGHT way first, because I don't want them to fail, I want them to succeed.
    One day I watched 7 of my staff go out the gate in ambulances for a chow hall riot that took 24 seconds start to finish. I never, ever want to see that again.

    BTW, private prisons use security guards - state and county are generally correctional officers.
    Why did you differentiate this, what is the significance?
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    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Just another chance to sling a metric butt ton of BS- - - - -same as all his other posts!
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Jailers should definitely NOT be armed. No one locked up in a cell while outnumbered by inmates should be armed. Two or three inmates can gang up and take away your weapon and then they'll be armed and you won't. I worked as a jailer for a while.
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    I used to do a little bit of work in county jails, and some other facilities that house bad folks. Stuff I've seen scares me. Like basically letting me in to be free to do whatever. Not exactly like that, but they seem to skip following procedure because they "know me."
    One facility I've been in counts your tools coming in, and going out to make sure nothing was lost or stolen. One day they forgot to count going in. I pointed it out. "Yep, you're right, we probably better count them." W T F? Probably?
    I've seen better security protocol at food plants than in some jails.
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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    Just another chance to sling a metric butt ton of BS- - - - -same as all his other posts!
    Jerry
    Could you quantify that, sir? If you are speaking to me, can you refute with your experience? if you were not speaking to me I humbly apologize for bothering you.
    Last edited by Armoredman; 07-24-2017 at 08:10 PM.

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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Quote Originally Posted by CHIRO1989 View Post
    Why did you differentiate this, what is the significance?
    Semantics, I suppose, to the outsider. We raised our right hands and swore an oath to serve and protect the citizens of the Great State of Arizona, which security guards go down to DPS and fill out the registration for the guard card. :) I suppose that quantifier wasn't necessary, then.

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    Re: A list of errors in Corrections shooting in GA

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    I used to do a little bit of work in county jails, and some other facilities that house bad folks. Stuff I've seen scares me. Like basically letting me in to be free to do whatever. Not exactly like that, but they seem to skip following procedure because they "know me."
    One facility I've been in counts your tools coming in, and going out to make sure nothing was lost or stolen. One day they forgot to count going in. I pointed it out. "Yep, you're right, we probably better count them." W T F? Probably?
    I've seen better security protocol at food plants than in some jails.
    cpj, you are absolutely right, have seen the same type of complacency and try like crazy to stop it. Some staff believe it will never happen to them, until they are the ones sitting there staring at the blood on their hands and shirt wondering how it came to this. Very good point, sir.

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