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Thread: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

  1. #31
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    With short range radar + bridge wing lookouts I don't see how these accidents are happening. It's not like a ship can sneak up on you, and it doesn't matter if it's daytime or night time.
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    They're currently trying to figure out how to attach training wheels to all our destroyers!

    Jerry
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  3. #33
    Moderator Jayhawker's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Did you see the forefoot on that tanker? No wonder it opened that Destroyer up like a (no pun intended) tin can. What a mess...
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  4. #34
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by shootbrownelk View Post
    To tell the truth, John McCain the Senator has strayed off course since he's been in office. The ship is no different I see.
    Like was said, this ship is not named for Little Johnny but his father and grand father who were both celebrated Admirals. John McCain the Senator was only a captain in the Navy, not an admiral.
    Last edited by snake284; 08-22-2017 at 06:43 AM.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    I'm thinking maybe we need to send all of the missile geeks back to school to learn how to drive a ship. It wouldn't be the first time that the Navy has become so enamored with their high tech that they neglected basics. I'm thinking here about when they left the guns out of the F-4 because their missiles were so awesome, then sent them out to dogfight with MIGs. They ended up having to install guns and create the Top Gun schools to tune up their pilots.

  6. #36
    Senior Member shush's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    I'm thinking maybe we need to send all of the missile geeks back to school to learn how to drive a ship.
    Reminds me of that "The Obstinate Lighthouse".




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  7. #37
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Something stinks with this story!! How can one of the most advanced war ships in the world be broadsided by a 600 ft tanker. I know there is a radar
    recording of transponders we will never see

  8. #38
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by NN View Post
    Capt needs to be on the bridge in and around the Strait of Malacca
    This for sure and what JBP Ohio said are both spot on.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
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  9. #39
    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Well, this accident as well as the Fitzgerald's collision, the USS Lake Champlain's collision, and the grounding of the USS Antietam (all in 2017) have cost Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin, 7th Fleet CINC, his job.

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/navy-relie...opstories.html
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  10. #40
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    That's the way the Navy used to work. Leadership descends from the top down.

  11. #41
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by breamfisher View Post
    Well, this accident as well as the Fitzgerald's collision, the USS Lake Champlain's collision, and the grounding of the USS Antietam (all in 2017) have cost Vice Admiral Joseph Aucoin, 7th Fleet CINC, his job.

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/navy-relie...opstories.html
    Should have happened after the second!
    I still can't understand this. So the first incident happens. You analyze the issue, make changes in procedure etc. everyone should be on high alert. Nope. It keeps happening. You'd THINK they'd figure something out.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    I can't help wanting to blame texting.

  13. #43
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Looking at the damage to the ship, the destroyer was crossing right to left in front of the tanker. Looks like perpendicular hit to me. 'Rules of the road' for navigation can and will find both at fault, with the most fault falling on the destroyer. They are small, nimble, and can easily outmaneuver a slow arsed tanker. And there's at least 12 people on the bridge of that destroyer, and ONE OF THEM would have their face buried in the short range nav radar screen. And there are lookouts on port and starboard bridge wings, and they now have night vision to help them see at night. I just don't see how they could let that collision happen if they were paying half arsed attention to their jobs. The Captain is responsible for his ship even if he's snoozing in his underway quarters off the bridge, and he SHOULD have been on the bridge going into a heavy traffic area. The Captain will most likely get put on shore duty and be cashiered out eventually due to this, and the rest of the bridge crew, officers and enlisted should consider their careers over, too.
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society. --Mark Twain

  14. #44
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Obama packed the Pentagon with social justice warriors - progressive-agenda political reliability being the primary concern for selection. I would be suspect of any flag officer promoted during the last administration - that fact alone would be the default justification for replacing most of them.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Chris, how many accidental dumps of a fire suppression system would it take before you were in the unemployment line? Even if nobody got killed, I doubt if your company would wait for the third or fourth mishap before handing you some walking papers. My bosses in the warranty investigation business love my work, but all it would take would be one big screwup for them to say "Sayonara"!
    Jerry
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  16. #46
    Senior Member shush's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    It is not all bad news;

    "Captain Receives Navy Cross After Successfully Finishing Entire Deployment"

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/11/ca...ng-deployment/
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  17. #47
    Senior Member Make_My_Day's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by shush View Post
    It is not all bad news;

    "Captain Receives Navy Cross After Successfully Finishing Entire Deployment"

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/11/ca...ng-deployment/
    AAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!!

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  18. #48
    Senior Member shush's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by Make_My_Day View Post
    AAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!! Fake News Alert!!

    No?

    What a day for disappointments.
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  19. #49
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    Chris, how many accidental dumps of a fire suppression system would it take before you were in the unemployment line? Even if nobody got killed, I doubt if your company would wait for the third or fourth mishap before handing you some walking papers. My bosses in the warranty investigation business love my work, but all it would take would be one big screwup for them to say "Sayonara"!
    Jerry
    Not many, depending on the situation. They like me, but.....one clean agent (think halon but different chemical )system I service would cost us probably 20 thousand just for chemical refills. Forgetting of course customer downtime. One would be a bad deal, followed (after the cooking off period ) by being "that guy" and the butt of jokes. Twice wouldn't be so pretty.
    I have had one incident that while technically wasn't my fault, it was my fault because I was the more experienced of the two us us. That one was "highly visible". But it wasn't blatant, and it was easy to see how it happened, no one got hurt, damage was limited, etc. But.....I'm well known. At a corporate level.
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  20. #50
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    A culmination of many problems I guess. Listening to FOX news this morning, a former commander from the USS Cole? was saying that the used to go to 16 weeks of AIT training in seamanship, and now they get a dvd to bring onboard their assigned ship and learn on the job. He was also saying a lot of ships went from three lookout's to one, many having multiple tours causing burnout. I guess we will learn soon enough what caused the problem.

  21. #51
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Keel-hauling a few Admirals would be a good beginning!
    Jerry
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  22. #52
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    A culmination of many problems I guess. Listening to FOX news this morning, a former commander from the USS Cole? was saying that the used to go to 16 weeks of AIT training in seamanship, and now they get a dvd to bring onboard their assigned ship and learn on the job. He was also saying a lot of ships went from three lookout's to one, many having multiple tours causing burnout. I guess we will learn soon enough what caused the problem.
    Don't know what the training for officers was back when I was in the Navy in the early 1970s. I DO KNOW that bridge wing lookouts and aft watch lookout on the fantail were OJT for us enlisted sailors. And the OJT was standing watches for 3 months with an experienced lookout at those stations. These watches were in addition to our assigned duties. Ship I was on was chronically and at times dangerously undermanned due to the end of the draft. First two Captains on the ship were WWII tin can experience, one in the Pacific and one in the Atlantic and Med. The last one was sort of a mystery.

    If that former commander was correct as to there being only one lookout, then that is most likely from the downsizing of crews aboard ships now. They don't crew them like they used to. And I'd bet they don't train, and cross train in other rates like we did, either.
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society. --Mark Twain

  23. #53
    Senior Member shush's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Now we see you;

    "After Deadly Collisions Navy will Broadcast Warship Locations in High Traffic Areas"

    https://news.usni.org/2017/09/19/dea...-traffic-areas
    September 19, 2017

    “Sir, I have the same questions,” Richardson responded. “It’s very hard to understand with the sophisticated systems onboard these warships that we let a ship get in that close to the point of collision.”

    “Don’t we have sailors on the bridge with binoculars anymore?” King asked.

    “We do,” Richardson said. “It’s required to have lookouts and we have lookouts on the bridge.”

    Part of the problem isn’t the Navy’s ability to see who else is out there, Richardson said, but everyone else’s ability to spot Navy ships.

    “Is there some technology that they couldn’t see us?” King asked. “Are we using a stealth technology?................................”

    Now we don't?
    Last edited by shush; 09-22-2017 at 08:43 AM. Reason: quote
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  24. #54
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Good article but the NAVY still not explaining how they allowed the collisions to happen. SOMEONE on OUR boat should have seen the other boat comics...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  25. #55
    Senior Member shush's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    Verdicts are in and no bread and water.

    "Top officers of USS John McCain fired for ‘poor judgment’"

    https://nypost.com/2017/10/10/top-of...oor-judgement/





    An incognito USN captain.

    "The Real Reason the US Navy Keeps Hitting Merchant Vessels"

    https://www.sofmag.com/the-real-reas...chant-vessels/

    "I am willing to bet that those ships involved in incidents with merchants had all their sexual orientation, transgender training, and environmental training all completed at the expense of the safety and operational training.

    If you put the emphasis on social issues, you get a social force. If you put it on operational issues, you get an operational force"
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  26. #56
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    And no one will ever tell us what the hell happened...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  27. #57
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    Re: What the hell another collision with a US warship?

    "If you put the emphasis on social issues, you get a social force. If you put it on operational issues, you get an operational force"

    Imagine that.

    Hawk

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