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Thread: Roy Moore

  1. #31
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Before all this came out, most polls were showing moore with a 10-12% lead. I haven't seen or heard of any recent enough to include any change this crap-storm has caused.

    I suspect the Dem Doug Jones will have a substantial lead in the next round of polls
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    The problem with all of this is there is only one accuser. The other 4 women were of legal age and IAW Moore, he gained parental permission. When it was refused, he walked away, in some of the cases it was supported by the parents as a good match for their daughters. If you like it or not, 16 is the age of majority in AL. You might not like it, but it is NOT illegal to date or have relationships with people who are beyond the age of majority.

    So, you have ONE accusation that the media is trying to blow up by using 4 people who have exactly zero legs to stand on, that is 40 years old, with zero proof that he did anything. Unless someone can come up with a photo of him with the single accuser who says she was under the age of majority, its nothing but a witch hunt. Doesnt matter if you like him or not. A accusation is not a verdict.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by Varmintmist View Post
    ...So, you have ONE accusation that the media is trying to blow up by using 4 people who have exactly zero legs to stand on, that is 40 years old, with zero proof that he did anything. Unless someone can come up with a photo of him with the single accuser who says she was under the age of majority, its nothing but a witch hunt. Doesnt matter if you like him or not. A accusation is not a verdict.
    It seems odd that a pervert would go after children, and then go dormant for 40 years. I don't really approve of a 33 year old man going after a 16 year old (or younger), but there was a time when it wasn't unusual at all, and not frowned upon. Anyway, there is enough to cloud this up, so that it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was attempting to harm a child.

    We can't allow people to be destroyed by mere allegations, even if the public consensus seems to support it.

  4. #34
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Yes, it's a hit piece, and maybe the accusations are true. We'll likely never know the truth of the matter. The guy Moore is a nut now, may have been 40 years ago.
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  5. #35

    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    It seems odd that a pervert would go after children, and then go dormant for 40 years. I don't really approve of a 33 year old man going after a 16 year old (or younger), but there was a time when it wasn't unusual at all, and not frowned upon. Anyway, there is enough to cloud this up, so that it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was attempting to harm a child.

    We can't allow people to be destroyed by mere allegations, even if the public consensus seems to support it.
    So true!
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  6. #36
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    Re: Roy Moore

    If being accused, especially without evidence, is cause not to vote for someone, how did Hilliary get so far? And there was evidence against her.
    Last edited by BAMAAK; 11-14-2017 at 08:03 PM.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ron View Post
    So true!
    I don't remember what I had for supper Friday.
    In a imperfect world we expect people to be perfect.
    Damn You all have some great arguments for Moore. I have had my extreme doubts since all this crap came to a head. The Dummycraps have a long history of this kind of crap. Going back just to Clarence Thomas they tried this on him. He stuck it out. Herman Cain was another. They ruined his chances of running for the presidency in 2012. The only reason he threw in the towel was because all the Hoopla was affecting his family. I think he would have stuck it out had he been a single man. Now some leftist will say, yeah the Repubs are just as bad, look at Bill Clinton! But the difference is that Bill Clinton had an established history of this behavior that for a long while was hidden from the public by the media, who loved him, and the DNC. But when the Monica Lewinsky scandal hit the fan it all came to a head. All these Republicans accused had no prior or post scandal problem. Bill's was Chronic.

    Same with Moore. Moore was an easy target because he seems to be a bit of a nut. But nobody has any real evidence. How can people stand up and point and say "I think he's guilty" as a matter of legal record with no proof, no substantial evidence. If there was, after 40 years, in my opinion there would be a path of evidence to his Guilt. I didn't get that from Judge Janine last night. I heard her say like Hannity, they need to put off the special election and investate further and if he is guilty he needs to step aside. That's all I got last night and that's the very sensible approach which I totally agree with. Yeah I don't believe this Horse Hockey for a minute, but I agree, if there's something we don't know that proves he's guilty he does need to get out of the way and let Alabama do whatever they can do.
    Last edited by snake284; 11-14-2017 at 08:00 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Thing is, we'll never know for sure if he did or didn't. As a former LEO, I know that sometimes women who are victims do not immediately report it for various reasons. I also know that some people (including women) will lie to gain an advantage.

    As a former LEO, it is NEVER OK to say a woman is lying about a sexual assault. Once the investigation advances and with no evidence inculpatory or exculpatory, it's time to make a determination.

    Since there is no other evidence that I know of, it's always going to be an unknown. Some indicators of sexual assault is "Immediate outcry." If the girl involved tells someone (not necessarily a LEO) about the incident immediately afterwards, it's evidence that should be considered. This happened with the woman who was assaulted by Bill Clinton, but in a more permissive era, it was discounted and minimized at the time even though she told another woman immediately after it happened. Especially with the MSM. I don't know whether this occurred with Moore or not.

    I will say this, some people who you wouldn't think as liberals say the accusations have the ring of truth. Pat Buchanan just said that, although he also said he doesn't know, either. If elected, I doubt the Senate would seat him. In that case, I guess the Governor would appoint his successor.

    Bill and other democrats being predators does not mean Moore is, or isn't. If anyone feels compelled to chose between Guilty or Not Guilty, I'd say go with your gut feeling and you'll never know if you're right or wrong.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Roy Moore needs to retain a reputable security firm to give him a lie detector test. I know that they're not admissible in court, but this isn't in court. If he passes, he can proclaim his innocence - and then offer to pay out of his own pocket for his accusers to take the same test. if any of them refuse, it's over. Say hello to Senator Moore. If he doesn't pass, who cares, to have expectations for politicians is a lost cause anyway.

  10. #40
    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    It looks like Moore is pretty much toast. I just hope for the sake anyone that's suffered real and legitimate wrong, that none of his accusers are later discredited.
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  11. #41
    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    So now Jeff Sessions says there is "no reason to doubt" Moore's accusers, and the Republican Party has withdrawn all support and funding.

    As to why it's taken so long for folks to come forward: he was a persecutor, er... prosecutor, when some of these acts allegedly happened wasn't he? Later became State Supreme Court Justice, and stayed involved in the legal system throughout that time, from what I understand. I can kinda understand folks not thinking they'd get any justice, and that there would be a potential for negative repercussions on the accusers.

    Plus, believe it or not, women handle stuff differently than men. And historically, this sort of stuff has had a history of being covered over...
    Last edited by breamfisher; 11-15-2017 at 01:43 PM.
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  12. #42

    Re: Roy Moore

    I always try to put myself in the place of people being accused of things.
    If any of us was accused of something we didn't do.......how do you prove you didn't do it ?
    This being guilty without proof is a bad road to go down for all of us.
    If he is proven to have done these things .......kick him out!
    If they can't prove what they say they need to be charged with making a false report .
    I learned as a kid to never let you mouth right a check that your butt can't cash !

  13. #43
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    Re: Roy Moore

    It's a done deal, the republican vote will be split and the democrats will get another Senate seat, Schumer is one step closer to control of the Senate.

  14. #44
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    If I lived in Alabama, I might choose not to vote. But, I don't have to make that decision, so I can play devil's advocate a little bit.

    Consider it from the point of view of someone falsely accused. If you drop out, most folks are going to take it as an admission of guilt. Herman Cain dropped out of the presidential race, last time around, saying he could not afford the lawyers to refute the charges against him. Still, most folks probably viewed it as an admission of guilt.

    If Moore is not guilty of anything that would have qualified as molestation or harassment, in the context of the times he was living in, he has the right to stay in the race and probably will. Dropping out would make him look guilty in the eyes of most folks, me included. On the other hand, a little bit of hard evidence and I would believe it, regardless of knowing beyond any doubt that the Democrat machine ginned it all up.

  15. #45
    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    I will add that I'm not sure anything he did back then would be considered illegal at that time. Some of it may have been, but it's the kind of stuff that's always he said she said. Which is why accusers rarely come out unless there is more than one. Strength in numbers. This is more on the spectrum of cheating on a spouse. Also not illegal, but almost always has negative repricussions. They tend to be especially hard on self righteous religious conservatives because of the hypocracy involved and because conservative voters tend to care about this stuff a bit more.
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  16. #46

    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    I will add that I'm not sure anything he did back then would be considered illegal at that time. Some of it may have been, but it's the kind of stuff that's always he said she said. Which is why accusers rarely come out unless there is more than one. Strength in numbers. This is more on the spectrum of cheating on a spouse. Also not illegal, but almost always has negative repricussions. They tend to be especially hard on self righteous religious conservatives because of the hypocracy involved and because conservative voters tend to care about this stuff a bit more.
    Just heard on the radio that back when all this was happening, Roy Moore was a democrat. That has no bearing on anything, but it is just kind of funny.
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  17. #47
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Local news just published new poll data. They say it's currently 49-43% in favor of Moore with an 8% margin of error
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  18. #48
    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post
    Local news just published new poll data. They say it's currently 49-43% in favor of Moore with an 8% margin of error
    I kind of hope he wins just to see how the senate repubs will handle it. I don't know if it's legal to refuse to seat him, or expel him. I'm sure they can make time in the senate wasted and miserable.
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  19. #49
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    It seems odd that a pervert would go after children, and then go dormant for 40 years. I don't really approve of a 33 year old man going after a 16 year old (or younger), but there was a time when it wasn't unusual at all, and not frowned upon. Anyway, there is enough to cloud this up, so that it has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was attempting to harm a child.

    We can't allow people to be destroyed by mere allegations, even if the public consensus seems to support it.
    He was a West Point grad and a up and comer in the AL govt system in the mid 70's. Everything pointed to stable and well off during the middle of a ressession with a highlight of 12% inflation. Anyone want to bet he was a catch that was pursued by parents as well as daughters?
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  20. #50
    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    I kind of hope he wins just to see how the senate repubs will handle it. I don't know if it's legal to refuse to seat him, or expel him. I'm sure they can make time in the senate wasted and miserable.
    They can expell him with 66 votes. Dems hold 48 and would be happy to see him go. In that case governor would appoint someone until another election could be held. Most likely the general in 2018. Most likely scenario actually.
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  21. #51
    Moderator Jayhawker's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Has anyone noticed that (to my knowledge anyway) not one of these women has made a sworn statement (under penalty of perjury) regarding these "assaults"...so all this is going forward based on unfounded accusations? Really? As soon as Gloria Allred walked in with the latest "victim"...my B.S. alarms kicked in to overdrive....
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  22. #52
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    They can expell him with 66 votes. Dems hold 48 and would be happy to see him go. In that case governor would appoint someone until another election could be held. Most likely the general in 2018. Most likely scenario actually.
    Which might be Win-Win. No democrat in that seat, and no Moore either.
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  23. #53
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker View Post
    As soon as Gloria Allred walked in with the latest "victim"...my B.S. alarms kicked in to overdrive....
    Pretty much.
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  24. #54
    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by zorba View Post
    Which might be Win-Win. No democrat in that seat, and no Moore either.
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...on-in-alabama/

    Here's a decent analysis of the various possible outcomes and the risks/consequences. None of them are particularly great for Republicans.
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  25. #55
    Senior Member Nomadac's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by Make_My_Day View Post
    I saw this on Hannity last night after I posted my previous remarks. This woman has a copy of her high school year-book with Moore's signature along with a short note which was quite personal for a young woman of her age. After signing her year-book he offered her a ride home, pulled around the back of the diner and she claims he tried to force her to have sex with him. I find this one to be believable. I'm thinking Alabama should find another Republican candidate.
    I heard a report today that the diner did not have parking in the back, so how he have pulled around back?

  26. #56

    Re: Roy Moore

    I cannot believe some of the people who are defending the alleged actions. Trying to say that 'even if this happened, it's OK because it was a different time'

    Good Lord, a 32 year old dating a 16 year old is always creepy. Period.

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  27. #57
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    I cannot believe some of the people who are defending the alleged actions. Trying to say that 'even if this happened, it's OK because it was a different time'

    Good Lord, a 32 year old dating a 16 year old is always creepy. Period.

    Because republican.
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  28. #58

    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    Because republican.
    He was a Democrat back when he was trolling highschool girls... after asking their Mom's permission, of course.
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  29. #59
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Creepy? Yep. Illegal or pedophilia, nope. In case you didnt notice there is a male belly dancer that posts here. Thats a bit on the creepy side, but hes an OK guy.

    Its alleged actions. Not actions. You all who are ready to feed him into a wood chipper need to be falsely accused of something sometime.

    So far, there is and was no back parking lot, and Alread refuses to give up the yearbook that Moores atty wants to go to a handwriting expert. Meaning that the "proof" is not exactly standing up.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

  30. #60
    Senior Member Make_My_Day's Avatar
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    Re: Roy Moore

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomadac View Post
    I heard a report today that the diner did not have parking in the back, so how he have pulled around back?
    I only repeated what I read somewhere. If there is no parking there, then I guess it was another internet BS story.
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