Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 31

Thread: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

  1. #1
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27,962

    Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Especially with the right ammo. Makes a handy dandy house/truck carbine/kickin around outdoors shooter.

    Soft Points and loads like Hornady Critical Defense and others give it new potential/possibilities over traditional ball ammo. Much easier on the eyes than ARs too, for me anyhow.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrIWhoDMXuI
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

  2. #2
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    8,962

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    My dad was an Army infantry 1st Sgt. in Korea, and was fond of the carbine, although he carried the select fire model (M2 carbine). He did most of his fighting on the radio, with artillery, and it was much handier and good enough for self protection. On the rare occasions when he led patrols, he would swap it for a M-1 or even a B.A.R., if he was really concerned about enemy contact. Also, he had spent some time training '90 Day Wonders' to shoot the 1911 pistol, and came to the conclusion that most of them were just better off carrying a carbine and leaving the pistol in its holster.

  3. #3
    Senior Member early's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Thornton CO
    Posts
    4,477

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Not likely to find one discounted these days.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  4. #4
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Working on my tan!
    Posts
    22,951

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Many folks discount the little M1 as unreliable and underpowered. Issue number one is taken care of with quality magazines. Guys buy gun show bulk cheap 30 round Asian made mags and expect them to work well. QC is just not there so you’ll probably find a small percentage that will work as designed. I’ve found 15 round mags in general are very realiable and you can still find real surplus GI if you shop around a bit.

    The underpowered issue is the one that’s a head scratcher for me. 15 rounds with power at about .357 mag level delivered as fast as you pull the trigger and easier to aim than a handgun should not be dismissed as an HD weapon and as a short range deer gun they work just great! I knew old timers in the NE that used them as stalking brush guns to great effect.

    Pricing for military examples has jumped in the last few years but even those are still comparable to a quality American made 1911s and you can still bump into good deals on commercial versions rather frequently.

    The only real issue with the M1 is a fairly short list and availability in your average LGS of commercial load options for hunting, SD and HD. I think Remington sells a 110gr SP that is pretty popular and should do just fine for HD and hunting but I haven’t looked in a while.
    Last edited by Wambli Ska; 11-14-2017 at 04:37 PM.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  5. #5
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,891

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Hornady makes a 110gr Critical Defense round with a nice profiled FTX For reliable feeding in the little carbine. Funny thing is my guy sells them CHEAPER than .45acp by about 10˘ a round (box of 25 is $17.50). I’ve only tested function and accuracy which where excellent but never on anything else but a couple of those placed right I do believe would do the job.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

  6. #6
    Senior Member Antonio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Posts
    1,942

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Never had; our favorite "truck gun" for road trips of any kind. Usually take an Inland post-war rebuilt with the stock pouch carrying 2 15 round magazines, another one in the rifle and a couple of 30-rounders (VERY important to have the improved mag catch with the lateral lug) at hand. I'd rather carry them with FMJs since the chance of using it against vehicles/cover is higher.

    Due to its light kick and rather small size, wife handles it easily, and its looks usually won't spook other "non-gun" people traveling with us.

    M1 & M2 Carbines.jpg

  7. #7
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27,962

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    I reload a lot of Round Nose Soft Points and bought some factory privi partizan ammo and bullets to reload.

    I got some South Korean made mags that work good, they were new in wrappers. The WWII mags do not lock the bolt back after the last round is fired, BTW.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27,962

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio View Post

    Due to its light kick and rather small size, wife handles it easily, and its looks usually won't spook other "non-gun" people traveling with us.

    M1 & M2 Carbines.jpg
    hey, I like that pair there..........His and Hers
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,922

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    I always post the same two things when someone posts about the M 1 Carbine. First, it was Audie Murphy's favorite personal weapon. He supposedly wielded it like a pistol, one handed, when up close.

    Second is from an account in the book: "The Last Stand of Fox Company" which was about the Marines first contact with Chinese troops in the far north of Korea. The members of Fox said the Carbine's rounds weren't powerful enough to take down the Chinese troops unless a head shot was made. Chinese troops' uniforms were frequently ice-coated, if that has anything to do with it, or it could be myth. Most soldiers want a round that will drop an enemy in his tracks...and that don't happen always.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06

  10. #10
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Working on my tan!
    Posts
    22,951

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    I always post the same two things when someone posts about the M 1 Carbine. First, it was Audie Murphy's favorite personal weapon. He supposedly wielded it like a pistol, one handed, when up close.

    Second is from an account in the book: "The Last Stand of Fox Company" which was about the Marines first contact with Chinese troops in the far north of Korea. The members of Fox said the Carbine's rounds weren't powerful enough to take down the Chinese troops unless a head shot was made. Chinese troops' uniforms were frequently ice-coated, if that has anything to do with it, or it could be myth. Most soldiers want a round that will drop an enemy in his tracks...and that don't happen always.
    Does the book provide details of the engagement? IIRC the Chinese winter uniforms were made of HEAVY canvas that was quilted in layers, basically providing an early form of body armor, specially when wet. If the distances were at typical rifle ranges I could see where penetration would be insufficient to reach vitals and stop a determined enemy. Up close and personal (the carbine was designed to be an alternative to a 1911 pistol not a Garand) it should have worked just fine and this is the carbine's sweet spot.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  11. #11
    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Podunk, Tx.
    Posts
    5,367

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    My dad was an Army infantry 1st Sgt. in Korea, and was fond of the carbine, although he carried the select fire model (M2 carbine). He did most of his fighting on the radio, with artillery, and it was much handier and good enough for self protection. On the rare occasions when he led patrols, he would swap it for a M-1 or even a B.A.R., if he was really concerned about enemy contact. Also, he had spent some time training '90 Day Wonders' to shoot the 1911 pistol, and came to the conclusion that most of them were just better off carrying a carbine and leaving the pistol in its holster.
    My father served in the last year of WWII in the Philippines. He had grown up around firearms, and loved the M1 Garand he used during basic training. He scored high enough to earn the top classification the army gave for marksmanship.

    In the Philippines, though, he was issued an M1 carbine, and couldn't hit anything with it. He told me about setting a milk jug or something similar sized in a tree, and not being able to hit it from about 80 yards. He was not impressed. Maybe he got one that was shot out, or quality control at that point of the war had diminished. Whatever it was, he was not a fan of the carbine.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,922

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Does the book provide details of the engagement? IIRC the Chinese winter uniforms were made of HEAVY canvas that was quilted in layers, basically providing an early form of body armor, specially when wet. If the distances were at typical rifle ranges I could see where penetration would be insufficient to reach vitals and stop a determined enemy. Up close and personal (the carbine was designed to be an alternative to a 1911 pistol not a Garand) it should have worked just fine and this is the carbine's sweet spot.
    The book is all about this one particular engagement. It's a great read. Just that one statement on the carbine, IIRC. I also believe the Chinese wore cotton quilted uniforms and canvas shoes, although I'm not sure where this came from. Fox Company was surrounded and heavily outnumbered by like a brigade of Chinese and fought them for several days.

    Most of the engagement was at close range, as I remember it.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06

  13. #13
    Senior Member early's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Thornton CO
    Posts
    4,477

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    When I read about the Chosin, I don't recall complaints about the carbine, but the book referenced several instances where our soldiers would grab those Russian or Chinese carbines. PP50's I think? Select fire 9mm sub guns. I assume they wanted all the fire power they could get, being so severely out numbered.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  14. #14
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Working on my tan!
    Posts
    22,951

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by early View Post
    Not likely to find one discounted these days.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    I just got this
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  15. #15
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27,962

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,922

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by early View Post
    When I read about the Chosin, I don't recall complaints about the carbine, but the book referenced several instances where our soldiers would grab those Russian or Chinese carbines. PP50's I think? Select fire 9mm sub guns. I assume they wanted all the fire power they could get, being so severely out numbered.
    7.62 x 25. Which is a powerful round, more powerful than a .30 carbine.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06

  17. #17
    Senior Member shotgunshooter3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Global Nomad
    Posts
    5,022
    I'm quite fond of my 1943 Inland M1 Carbine. I probably paid a premium for it at the time but they aren't getting any cheaper.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C

  18. #18
    Senior Member Tugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Western Idaho
    Posts
    1,469

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    I miss owning the M1 carbine. To me, it has all the right features of the best plinking rifle ever. Low recoil, decently accurate. Reliable ( as long as you don't use the 30 round mags, never had any luck with them).

    My biggest complaint was the caliber and it's not easy to find.

    A M1 Carbine in 45acp or 9mm would be awesome. it needs to be an GOOD version though. I have heard meh things about the chiappa m1-9 that takes Beretta mags. No bolt hold open ( non starter for me) and the closer you look, the worse it is.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill

  19. #19
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27,962

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    7.62 x 25. Which is a powerful round, more powerful than a .30 carbine.
    ???? No I don't think so. The .30 carbine out does it even when the Tok is fired from a longer bbl. It is pretty awesome (7.62X25) even from a handgun, though.

    Ballistic performance .30 Carbine
    Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
    110 gr (7 g) FMJ 606.5 m/s (1,990 ft/s) 1,311 J (967 ft·lbf)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Carbine
    Ballistic performance
    Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
    5.5 g (85 gr) JHP[2] 376 m/s (1,230 ft/s) 390 J (290 ft·lbf)
    5.8 g (90 gr) FMJ[2] 409 m/s (1,340 ft/s) 488 J (360 ft·lbf)
    5.5 g (85 gr) FMJ[3] 469 m/s (1,540 ft/s) 605 J (446 ft·lbf)
    5.5 g (85 gr) FMJ[4] 497 m/s (1,630 ft/s) 697 J (514 ft·lbf)
    5.5 g (85 gr) JHP[4] 482 m/s (1,580 ft/s) 655 J (483 ft·lbf)



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9725mm_Tokarev
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

  20. #20
    Senior Member early's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Thornton CO
    Posts
    4,477

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Either way them 1st Marines and 39th Infantry and everyone else never passed one of them red carbines up without grabbing it.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    South Central Kansas
    Posts
    34

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Big Chief: In late 1967 my first assignment in the ARMY was to a unit at Ft Knox KY. And we had an unbelievable arms room, with just about everything you could imagine. And we were out on the rifle range one day, with a couple of National Guard Companies. To shoot some of the Old Family of Weapons we had. And one of the small arms weapons they were going to shoot was the M-1 .30 Carbine. There was a LTC in Charge of the National Guard Unit that had been Blowing and Going and running His mouth pretty much all day about all of his military expertise. And was just generally being an Obnoxious PIA. And when it came time for them to shoot the 30 Carbine`s, that NG LTC really was really coming down hard on the little 30 Carbine. On how it was the most worthless weapon the Army had ever used in Combat. And he was repeating all the old stories that like to be told by people that don`t have a clue like him that never seen Combat. Now we had a LTC with us that was really in charge of everything and was the real deal Infantry Officer. And He had reached his limit with that loud mouthed obnoxious clown. And He asked to see the NG LTC`s helmet liner and steel pot which had a silver oak leaf on the front of it. And then he handed it to me and told me to take the helmet and put on a steel fence post about 60 to 80 yards away downrange. And then He pick up one of the 30 Carbines out of the racks and loaded a 15 round mag of old ball ammo. And shot the NG`s LTC helmet and it spun around but stayed on the steel fence post and this time it was facing us and He shot again and the helmet went flying of the fence post. Then He told me to go down range get the helmet and bring it back. The hamlet had 4 holes in it 2 side to side and 2 front to back. And the NG LTC left the range in a huff cussing and yelling. And our LTC turn to all of us standing there and said don`t believe any of the negative BS you hear about the 30 Carbine. For I carried one thru WW11 in Burma and also in Korea, and I never had one fail me. and turned and walked away. So every time I hear people bad moth the Old 30 Carbine. I alway remember that day on the rifle range at Ft Knox. I also carried a 30 Carbine in Viet Nam in 1968 & 1969 and in 1971 & 1972 in Combat and I never had a problem with any of them.
    ken

  22. #22
    Senior Member Big Chief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27,962

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Great story, thanks.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

  23. #23
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Working on my tan!
    Posts
    22,951

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    That is a cool story. Thanks for sharing!
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  24. #24
    Senior Member Antonio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Posts
    1,942

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Local cops, most now retired, carried those rifles at the early stages of the war against the shining path maoist terrorists, and almost all of them praise the M-1 for its reliability, light weight (They usually patrolled on foot at heights over 12,000 feet without logistics or mechanized transports....back into Napoleonic battle conditions) and decent punch. Later they were supplied with HK G-3 (Didn't love them due to their heavier weight and problems with available ammo) and then by the mid-'80s with the much more suitable AKMs, but still had respect for the little Carbine. According to a police armorer that worked with them during that period, main problem was getting spare parts to repair them, one of the main reasons why they were eventually replaced.

    From what I've read, it appears to be that many were shipped with quality control issues, since you can read in some books about loose or misaligned front sights assemblies, wood swelling that froze the mechanism, loose gas pistons, etc.

  25. #25
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,891

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    I don’t know how much it is stretched or even if it’s true ... because they were of the Greatest Generation I do put give it some validity ...

    There are WWII stories of Seabees running heavy equipment with one hand repairing/cutting a road or landing strip and a M1 Carbine in the other returning fire at the Nips on some Pacific island. I do know from my Grandpa that the Seabees did would fight way more than people realized ... he said the Nips would let them get a good portion done and would try and blow it up so they’d waste time and resources. They’d work 5 days on a landing strip and fight 5 to keep it.

    He use to tell me about the ... we do the hard stuff now but the I possible things take just a little longer.
    Last edited by NCFUBAR; 11-15-2017 at 07:03 PM.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

  26. #26
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Working on my tan!
    Posts
    22,951

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    I don’t know how much it is stretched or even if it’s true ... because they were of the Greatest Generation I do put give it some validity ...

    There are WWII stories of Seabees running heavy equipment with one hand repairing/cutting a road or landing strip and a M1 Carbine in the other returning fire at the Nips on some Pacific island. I do know from my Grandpa that the Seabees did would fight way more than people realized ... he said the Nips would let them get a good portion done and would try and blow it up so they’d waste time and resources. They’d work 5 days on a landing strip and fight 5 to keep it.

    He use to tell me about the ... we do the hard stuff now but the I possible things take just a little longer.
    Meshes very well with the stories I heard from my wife's grandpa. He was a Seabee too, one of the first that landed on Tinian Island. He said building started while bullets were still whizzing by. He was there when they loaded the bomb...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6,260

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    My reaction to the FN P90 and HK MP-7 has been "Congratulations guys! You invented the M1 Carbine".

    It took me a while to get to the level of understanding, but the fact is that the vast majority of any body of individuals who pick up a rifle will have no clue of how or inclination to exploit a 500-yard capable weapon, let alone a 1000-yard one. We've NEVER had a culture that would enable us to field and army composed entirely of Carlos Hathcocks, and we certainly don't now. Once you wrap your bean around that, issuing weapons like the M1 Carbine to the masses begins to make a lot of sense.

    It's interesting that even after they invented the thing for that purpose, the U.S. military seems to have been among the last to fully come to grips with that. My understanding is that a lot of M1 Carbines were used by the ARVN, but I'm not aware of McNamara's Whiz Kid groups doing any studies of how they performed in that arena. Given the teething problems of the early M16 at the time, it might have been a tad embarrassing for them.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee

  28. #28
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    5,864

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    My reaction to the FN P90 and HK MP-7 has been "Congratulations guys! You invented the M1 Carbine".

    It took me a while to get to the level of understanding, but the fact is that the vast majority of any body of individuals who pick up a rifle will have no clue of how or inclination to exploit a 500-yard capable weapon, let alone a 1000-yard one. We've NEVER had a culture that would enable us to field and army composed entirely of Carlos Hathcocks, and we certainly don't now.
    Not Hathcocks, but competent rifleman are trained every day and have been for a while in sub cultures. Basic grunts to 500, DM's to 800.
    Last edited by Varmintmist; 11-17-2017 at 05:34 PM.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Lincoln, CA
    Posts
    979

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    Love my M1 carbine. New production from old machinery. About 8 years old and runs everything I put through it. Great close quarter rifle. Compact and packs a decent punch. Reloading is fairly easy with the tapered cartridge. Blowing up tannerite at 75 yards is with iron sights no less.

  30. #30
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,891

    Re: Don't discount the M1 .30 Carbine

    I have my Dad’s old M1 Carbine (mostly IBM) and I occasionally will take it out but I just don’t run it a lot because of parts. I’ve been thinking of picking up a new Inland but $1K is kinda steep to me when a can get buy a very nice WWII for a couple hundred more. It would be cool to take a carbine course using a M1 Carbine.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •