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Thread: Bad Tactics!

  1. #1
    Senior Member DanChamberlain's Avatar
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    Bad Tactics!

    A guy on another form mentioned that his friend got shot while checking for a possible intruder in his barn the other night. Someone shot him in the back as he and his wife were searching for the suspect. Some of the comments suggested that his tactics were sound, but something stood out to me immediately. "He and his wife took a pistol and a flashlight and went to check out the source of the noise."

    During the search, they discovered that someone had rolled their atv out of the barn! Big red flag. Now you have a problem. Time to back off...but of course, they didn't. He gets shot and ends up in ICU...

    I don't like flashlights. I carry one as a last resort. I can move through my property silently using ambient light. (I'm even more silent now that my hearing sucks! :)

    Dad used to take me for walks in the woods at night without flashlights. As a hunter, he wanted me to be able to move as quietly in the dark as I could in the daylight when moving to a stand in the wee hours. I loved it. Then, growing up, we'd have night time snowball fights, no lights. Just ambushes and searches. It was great fun. Nothing makes you more aware than a snowball in the face from some hidden master snowball flinger!

    Now, when I go to check a noise, I take my time, I leave the lights off and spend most of my time, standing silently and listening. I'll out wait the bad guy. All I lose is a little sleep. They'll make a mistake before I will.

    The light should come on, only after you have a target spotted and you want to verify if it's one you can kill, or one you have to spank and send to their rooms!
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain

  2. #2
    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    I think retreating to the shotgun safe zone of the house well calling whatever law is around would have been better.

    I'm just not into avoidable armed confrontations.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  3. #3

    Re: Bad Tactics!

    As soon as he saw the ATV out, he should have retreated, called the cops and covered the area with a rifle.

    At least that’s what I would have done.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov

  4. #4
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Dan, I agree. I learned to slink around quietly by hunting squirrels with a .22 (because you have to get a still shot). I also used to walk around my property without a light, until vertigo problems ruined that for me.

    It is just counter-intuitive to me to check out a noise or whatever at night and turn on a light.

  5. #5

    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    Dan, I agree. I learned to slink around quietly by hunting squirrels with a .22 (because you have to get a still shot). I also used to walk around my property without a light, until vertigo problems ruined that for me.

    It is just counter-intuitive to me to check out a noise or whatever at night and turn on a light.
    Or to go with just a handgun.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov

  6. #6

    Re: Bad Tactics!

    I have found with myself that when I think someone is up to no good on my land I go right at them. I think the anger override common sense. Lucky that that action hasn't killed me yet. ( oh ya in the dark & with extreme caution too )

  7. #7
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    Or to go with just a handgun.

    Exactly.

  8. #8
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    I got insurance for the ATV or such so I ain’t in no rush. The older I get the slower I move not just from age but also wisdom ... step back and analyze before moving forward. Depends on how the dogs are acting, what motion lights have been set on, etc. I will say that I never allow anyone to go with me ... they get phone and driveway watch duty. Unless they are hurting or threat to my animals or a threat to my family I am not in any rush to get hurt ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    As soon as he saw the ATV out, he should have retreated, called the cops and covered the area with a rifle.

    At least that’s what I would have done.



    If for whatever reason, you feel the need to go back out there then go in the dark and don't take family along! If the purpose of gun ownership is to protect you and yours then this don't make too much sense. If you wife or other family member has been to Ranger school or something then I'll stay in the house covering and talking to the 9-1-1 operator while they can go outside. Think aftermath.

    Besides, two people will tend to talk in this kind of scenario unless trained not to. Let's not take out billboards so the badguy knows where we are.

  10. #10
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    A handgun is a self defense weapon. I don’t get paid to chase after burglars.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  11. #11
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    I would go out in the dark. Sneaky Pete till I could see what was going on w/o anyone seeing or hearing.
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    .

    Then the wife would turn on every outside light and start yell asking questions from the porch.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

  12. #12
    Senior Member CHIRO1989's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Varmintmist View Post
    I would go out in the dark. Sneaky Pete till I could see what was going on w/o anyone seeing or hearing.
    .
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    .
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    Then the wife would turn on every outside light and start yell asking questions from the porch.
    Yep, "are you OK?", "do you see anything", "can you hear me"
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11

  13. #13
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Why are you over by the shed?
    Dont you want the light on?
    Where are you?
    What are you doing?
    Arent you cold?
    Why dont you have a flashlight?
    Who's that over there?
    There are people at the barn!
    Dont get mad at me!
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

  14. #14
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Varmintmist View Post
    Why are you over by the shed?
    Dont you want the light on?
    Where are you?
    What are you doing?
    Arent you cold?
    Why dont you have a flashlight?
    Who's that over there?
    There are people at the barn!
    Dont get mad at me!
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  15. #15
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    To clarify my point. In this or similar home type scenarios, HD firearms are meant to save me from mortal danger, they are not an incentive (or permission) to go seek it. In my state (and it’s different in many others) shooting someone for stealing your stuff is questionable and I don’t see how chasing/hunting someone outside your house would end well legally.

    So the way I see it, I have insurance and the police are paid to come over and identify funky sounds outside of my house, so THEY get the call. My deductible on anything that gets stolen is nothing when stacked up agains legal and/or potential medical bills or even my funeral resulting from an actual shootout with a burglar.

    Now if the guy is in my house or trying to force his way in all bets are off. BUT, everything starts with either wife or me dialing 911 so there is a recorded record of HIS transgression... In legal or business matters, he who gets it on paper (or on record as in a recorded phone call) WINS.

    Does this mean I plan on retreating if someone attacks my church during service (as one example)? Hell no, that is an act of war. Different plans for different actions and scenarios.

    Anyway I feel sorry about that guy and I pray he pulls through.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  16. #16

    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Varmintmist View Post
    Why are you over by the shed?
    Dont you want the light on?
    Where are you?
    What are you doing?
    Arent you cold?
    Why dont you have a flashlight?
    Who's that over there?
    There are people at the barn!
    Dont get mad at me!
    Why are you shushing me?!?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov

  17. #17
    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    I think that all of us have different environments that we live in and around and that would dictate our response to a burglar or tresspasser. Our property is fenced and wooded with a clearing in the middle where the house, pastures, and barn are. The driveway is 600ft long through woods with an electronic gate up front with a no tresspassing sign on the gate. The only other access to the property is a gate to each of our two neighbors properties that are even with the house so that anyone showing up on our property climbed a fence or gate and ignored some signs. If the dogs go off, cowering in the bathtub with the sheriff's department on the phone is not at the top of my list.
    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .

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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    I think that all of us have different environments that we live in and around and that would dictate our response to a burglar or tresspasser. Our property is fenced and wooded with a clearing in the middle where the house, pastures, and barn are. The driveway is 600ft long through woods with an electronic gate up front with a no tresspassing sign on the gate. The only other access to the property is a gate to each of our two neighbors properties that are even with the house so that anyone showing up on our property climbed a fence or gate and ignored some signs. If the dogs go off, cowering in the bathtub with the sheriff's department on the phone is not at the top of my list.
    It's not about cowering, it's about staying on the right side of the law. That's the aftermath you have to face in the event of a shooting. Depending on the circumstances, many of which will be beyond your control, the outcome will dictate which side your on. 'I didn't mean to' or 'How was I suppose to know' won't go over well in court.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spk View Post
    It's not about cowering, it's about staying on the right side of the law. That's the aftermath you have to face in the event of a shooting. Depending on the circumstances, many of which will be beyond your control, the outcome will dictate which side your on. 'I didn't mean to' or 'How was I suppose to know' won't go over well in court.
    We don't live in California, we're in rural north Florida and any action that I take will certainly be "on the right side of the law".
    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .

  20. #20
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Thats pretty much were I am at. I would have to do something brutally stupid to get on the wrong side. A coworker held a guy at AR point who was wandering among the family and neighbor properties until the police picked him up. No big deal.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

  21. #21
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    We don't live in California, we're in rural north Florida and any action that I take will certainly be "on the right side of the law".
    Almost. Not “any”action is permissible and even more important justifiable in front of an inquisitive DA.

    When I lived in Florida I did have different options/plans, NC laws gives me a little less latitude. I do believe everyone should spend the time/money to see a criminal attorney for an hour to go over options and potential consequences. The time to find out that your interpretation of the law was right or flawed is BEFORE something happens. It’s relatively inexpensive for an hour consult. You leave with the guys contact info already programmed in your phone and he also will share his knowledge gained from dealing with local LEOs, DAs and judges so he can give you some insight on how they personally stand on local and state law. Again the time to find out that your local DA, Sherriff or judge is a rabid anti gunner is ahead of trouble...

    Also I don’t think anyone here has the character that would make them “cower” regardless of whether they were legally allowed to hunt down a trespasser or only have a legal option to seek cover and wait it out unless mortally threatened. Those folks don’t normally seek the type of knowledge we share here.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  22. #22
    Senior Member Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    In general, if you’re out looking for someone and you get shot in the back, there was something wrong with th your tactics...

  23. #23
    Senior Member DanChamberlain's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Depending on where you live, there's no reason they'd ever find the body.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain

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    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanChamberlain View Post
    Depending on where you live, there's no reason they'd ever find the body.
    The old sign “I Got A Gun & Backhoe ... And Know How To Use Them BOTH” thing ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

  25. #25
    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Almost. Not “any”action is permissible and even more important justifiable in front of an inquisitive DA.
    Don't confuse what I could do with what I would do. I have no intention of murdering a tresspasser but I would strongly insist they wait for the law to arrive. And I'm quit familiar with with how Larry (our sheriff) feels about people protecting themselves and their property from criminals.
    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .

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    Re: Bad Tactics!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    A handgun is a self defense weapon. I don’t get paid to chase after burglars.
    My sentiments also.

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