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Thread: Advanced C and C

  1. #1
    Senior Member bellcat's Avatar
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    Advanced C and C

    I'm taking my first advanced C and C class tomorrow night. We will split into 2 sessions: tomorrow at local restaurant for the classroom, and we get to pick from several days for our range time. We need to fire 100 rds to qualify.

    In SD, you can get a basic C and C permit by registering with the Sheriff. This does not have reciprocity with some bordering states. I think I can carry in 14 states with my basic.

    I'm looking forward as I'm pretty green at proper carry and such. Anything I should know before hand? I'll fill everybody in on how the class went.

    Bellcat
    "Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." Mark Twain

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    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Yep, bring what you carry, not just gun but ammo, holster etc. If I had a $ for every time I ask someone "Is that what you carry every day?" and they respond with a red faced "No." Id be rich...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Yep, bring what you carry, not just gun but ammo, holster etc. If I had a $ for every time I ask someone "Is that what you carry every day?" and they respond with a red faced "No." Id be rich...
    Hey ... some of us are just c h e a p and took it with a .22lr ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

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    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    Hey ... some of us are just c h e a p and took it with a .22lr ...
    Cheater...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Cheater...
    That's nothing. In Florida you just have to fire one round from any firearm and you're qualified to carry anything. The one round doesn't even have to be at a target.
    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
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  6. #6
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    That's nothing. In Florida you just have to fire one round from any firearm and you're qualified to carry anything. The one round doesn't even have to be at a target.
    What if it strikes the instructor?
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

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    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    What if it strikes the instructor?
    I really don't think that would matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .

  8. #8
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    That's nothing. In Florida you just have to fire one round from any firearm and you're qualified to carry anything. The one round doesn't even have to be at a target.
    The (Florida) class I took had us fire a Mark 2 at a bullet trap - all of 6 feet away. They did have us shoot several times - and it was the first time a couple of folks had ever fired a gun. They even gave me the target afterwards - which I meant to take to the range today to re-use, but forgot it at home. Next time...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
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    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  9. #9
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    I had to fire more rounds to "qualify" for membership to the last gunclub I joined(10) than I did for my CHL (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Seven habits of highly effective pirates
    Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.

  10. #10
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by bellcat View Post
    I'm taking my first advanced C and C class tomorrow night. We will split into 2 sessions: tomorrow at local restaurant for the classroom, and we get to pick from several days for our range time. We need to fire 100 rds to qualify.

    In SD, you can get a basic C and C permit by registering with the Sheriff. This does not have reciprocity with some bordering states. I think I can carry in 14 states with my basic.

    I'm looking forward as I'm pretty green at proper carry and such. Anything I should know before hand? I'll fill everybody in on how the class went.

    Bellcat
    Did they give you a curriculum? What are they teaching you?
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  11. #11
    Senior Member bellcat's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    https://www.ballisticdefense.com/southdakota/

    Looks pretty comprehensive...the instructor emailed that we have to move fast and stay on task.

    As a 'not very experienced' pistolero, I am looking forward.
    "Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." Mark Twain

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    Senior Member bobbyrlf3's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Prepare a place in your closet for holsters.....
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.

  13. #13
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    What’s worse is I thought NC’s range qual idea (something like fire 10 rounds at 3, 5 and 7 yards w/ at least 21 falling in a 6” or so ring) was stupid. I know of at least 3 people who have had their CHPs for at least a couple years and have not fire a single round since their CHP class. TO ME that is irresponsible and while they do have the righ pt to defend themselves it scares the crappé out of me thinking any of those 3 I know of could be what stands between me and my family’s and a bad guy.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    What’s worse is I thought NC’s range qual idea (something like fire 10 rounds at 3, 5 and 7 yards w/ at least 21 falling in a 6” or so ring) was stupid. I know of at least 3 people who have had their CHPs for at least a couple years and have not fire a single round since their CHP class. TO ME that is irresponsible and while they do have the righ pt to defend themselves it scares the crappé out of me thinking any of those 3 I know of could be what stands between me and my family’s and a bad guy.
    Or worse, they're shooting AT the bad guy - you might not be safe 90 degrees away!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  15. #15
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by zorba View Post
    Or worse, they're shooting AT the bad guy - you might not be safe 90 degrees away!
    EXACTLY!!! I’d prefer to be behind them ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell

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    Re: Advanced C and C

    In the class my wife and I took we had to fire 5 rounds with the gun range supplied firearm (Glock 17 if I remember correctly). Had to fire about 25 rounds during qualification for the club membership at our gun range......and went through a good 50 rounds later to qualify for the Action Pistol events the club is starting up. Had the first event last weekend to break in the new steel targets and we went through about 100 rounds each. Cost of ammunition was a major factor in deciding on 9MM in a carry gun. The more practice you get the more proficient you are and the lower the cost of ammunition is the more practice you are likely to get. A .45 won't stop anything you that can't hit due to lack of practice. We practice as much as we can afford to.

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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Glad I live in a free state. Bad enough we have to pay for a CHL. If a state wants to put training requirements on you, the class should be free. The 2A does say you have to be a marksman.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician

  18. #18
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    What’s worse is I thought NC’s range qual idea (something like fire 10 rounds at 3, 5 and 7 yards w/ at least 21 falling in a 6” or so ring) was stupid. I know of at least 3 people who have had their CHPs for at least a couple years and have not fire a single round since their CHP class. TO ME that is irresponsible and while they do have the righ pt to defend themselves it scares the crappé out of me thinking any of those 3 I know of could be what stands between me and my family’s and a bad guy.
    Even though I was already a card carrying NC certified instructor they made me take another instructors class to get my CCW

    This guy put a loaded, safety off, Ruger pistol in my hand at 3-5-7 yards and made me fire the course of fire while an assistant loaded mags and he reloaded my gun. That was all the hands on firearms instruction provided. The rest of his course will get one of his students killed or in jail someday. That’s why I teach my family and friends...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  19. #19
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by bellcat View Post
    https://www.ballisticdefense.com/southdakota/

    Looks pretty comprehensive...the instructor emailed that we have to move fast and stay on task.

    As a 'not very experienced' pistolero, I am looking forward.
    That’s a lot of ground to cover in 3 hours of “classroom” time. Not much detail on the practical shooting portion.

    So the basics:

    #1 Stay safe by staying alert, specially keeping track of what everyone is doing. You will be sorrounded by newbies with loaded guns and you have no idea how good your instructors really are.

    If you see something wrong, say something, nicely (no need to be a Richard), but don’t let it get lost in the jumble.

    Listen to everything intently and ask a lot of questions of anything you don’t “get”. If you are not satisfied with the answer don’t let the instructor off the hook until you are.

    Have an open mind, but if your tingly spidy sense kicks in and somethings sounds like BS or the instructor can not explain/justify it’s probably garbage.

    If an instructor insists his way is best an final for everyone and all other ways are wrong, he does not know what he is talking about.

    If at the end you walk away more comfortable in your CC abilities it was a success. Otherwise you wasted your money.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  20. #20
    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    What’s worse is I thought NC’s range qual idea (something like fire 10 rounds at 3, 5 and 7 yards w/ at least 21 falling in a 6” or so ring) was stupid. I know of at least 3 people who have had their CHPs for at least a couple years and have not fire a single round since their CHP class. TO ME that is irresponsible and while they do have the righ pt to defend themselves it scares the crappé out of me thinking any of those 3 I know of could be what stands between me and my family’s and a bad guy.
    Oh, had someone ask me to clean and test fire their gun for them as a favor. No bang... The gun had a broken firing pin, they would have been better off with a baseball bat... He bought it used, had never fired it in 20+ years...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  21. #21
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    EXACTLY!!! I’d prefer to be behind them ...
    Until you sneeze and they turn around to see what's going on - and of course the gun follows their eyes...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Oh, had someone ask me to clean and test fire their gun for them as a favor. No bang... The gun had a broken firing pin, they would have been better off with a baseball bat... He bought it used, had never fired it in 20+ years...
    Better late than never I guess...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  22. #22
    Senior Member NCFUBAR's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Even though I was already a card carrying NC certified instructor they made me take another instructors class to get my CCW

    This guy put a loaded, safety off, Ruger pistol in my hand at 3-5-7 yards and made me fire the course of fire while an assistant loaded mags and he reloaded my gun. That was all the hands on firearms instruction provided. The rest of his course will get one of his students killed or in jail someday. That’s why I teach my family and friends...
    Damn! Wonder what had happened to make him that scaredy-cat?

    I had my permit since 1995 (my CHP number is NC21XX and a joke half the time I use it to purchase) but due to stupidity and family health issues I missed my renewal window back in 2015 so I had to go thru the whole thing like a new person. I just signed up the first available I could in to get thing rolling. I knew the shooting part was a joke so I thought about messing around and what gun to take ... a big bore revolver ... a old WWII 1911 Remington Rand ... cheap .22lr? I cheaped out and took a Baer w/ a .22lr conversion for price and a little fun with a 1911 making little holes. One RO made a smart comment about 1911s reliability another about the “Big Bang”. After the 3 yard target (an actual paper plate) their faces looked puzzled ... the expected report was “pew” instead of “boom” and it was 1 jagged hole. The “reliability” RO asked if that was 10 rounds in the target tnwhich I said nope I only needed 7 at each distance and that was 7. He mumbled and said he’d be watching to make sure I fired enough rounds. At 5 yards I fired that 7 rounds in a line vertical ... he just looked. At the 7 yard target I put those 7 in a vertical line, he did not say a word. The main instructor came by and laughed at the tiny holes to which I just said “I’m cheap” and he added good to go to. To the other end a lady brought a mouse gun (I think Ruger LCP) she had just bought and couldn’t hit the cardboard holding the target ... he wound up giving her a .22lr pistol and still she had trouble ... but she still got her certificate. Honestly, I believe it is every honest citizen’s right to be able to defend themselves but damn if I want to be around when a big part of that class does it.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
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  23. #23
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    I hate the term "conceal and carry".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

    I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men.

  24. #24
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by NCFUBAR View Post
    ...
    One RO made a smart comment about 1911s reliability another about the “Big Bang”. After the 3 yard target (an actual paper plate) their faces looked puzzled ... the expected report was “pew” instead of “boom” and it was 1 jagged hole. The “reliability” RO asked if that was 10 rounds in the target tnwhich I said nope I only needed 7 at each distance and that was 7. He mumbled and said he’d be watching to make sure I fired enough rounds. ... The main instructor came by and laughed at the tiny holes to which I just said “I’m cheap” and he added good to go to.
    It always amazes me what people say when they just don't know any better.

    Reminds me of the quote, "The Narrower a man's mind the Broader his statement...."

    Afterall, the first two RO's didn't know you had a .22 upper and yet they felt qualified to make broad statements about your choice.

    The Real Instructor just found it amusing.

    Oh well....C'est la vie.

  25. #25
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    ....

    So the basics:

    #1 Stay safe by staying alert, specially keeping track of what everyone is doing. You will be sorrounded by newbies with loaded guns and you have no idea how good your instructors really are.

    If you see something wrong, say something, nicely (no need to be a Richard), but don’t let it get lost in the jumble.

    Listen to everything intently and ask a lot of questions of anything you don’t “get”. If you are not satisfied with the answer don’t let the instructor off the hook until you are.

    Have an open mind, but if your tingly spidy sense kicks in and somethings sounds like BS or the instructor can not explain/justify it’s probably garbage.

    If an instructor insists his way is best an final for everyone and all other ways are wrong, he does not know what he is talking about.

    If at the end you walk away more comfortable in your CC abilities it was a success. Otherwise you wasted your money.


    I've seen some real lemons teaching classes over here and when they feel it necessary to give you their resume' instead of a solid explanation to a question, that's a huge red flag!

  26. #26
    Senior Member bobbyrlf3's Avatar
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    Re: Advanced C and C

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    I hate the term "conceal and carry".
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.

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