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Thread: Self defense without a gun

  1. #61
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Varmintmist View Post
    If you have a fire under old alum siding, sticking a dry chem under and cutting loose will put it out. If you are near the corner, it will flow out of the corner. Thats how I learned.
    I walked into our shop HOURS after an incident with the chemical reclaim machine and you could still taste that crap. Can't imagine a facefull. So with this machine You screwed the hose onto the extinguisher, and let it rip. It was filtered, had a dust collector, was made to do reclaim the powder. Worked great, didn't really spill any of it. Until the new guy emptied a BUNCH of extinguishers, not knowing how full it was, and that it needed to be emptied after so many. The lid gave way. POOF! thankfully they got a picture of him. It was PRICELESS. Covered head to toe in yellowish powder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

    I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men.

  2. #62
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Anything can be a weapon. A Yeti cup would make a passable bludgeon. Your mindset is going to be most important, I am fully prepared to rip open a throat with my teeth. I would rather use my 12” pump pliers or a knife or gun but my first rule is “I go home alive.”

    Just be creative and violent.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    What he said.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  4. #64
    Moderator Jayhawker's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    I've always thought fence pliers would make a dandy expedient weapon.......
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"

  5. #65
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker View Post
    I've always thought fence pliers would make a dandy expedient weapon.......
    I carry 12” pump pliers every day at work. They make an ok hammer, should be even better on squishy bits or joints.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13

  6. #66
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker View Post
    I've always thought fence pliers would make a dandy expedient weapon.......
    Reminds me of that scene in Stir Crazy where the little cabbie grabbed that big dude by the balls with a pair of pliers.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  7. #67
    Senior Member Tugar's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker View Post
    And that stab to the heart is not immediately fatal.....I've seen some remarkably active (and aggressive) folks that have been stabbed in the heart and didn't even know it....
    Michael Platt was shot in the heart with a .38 Special and ran around for two minutes shooting FBI agents during the Infamous Miami shootout. I happened to be just a few blocks away.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Finding a practical martial art, not a competitive one, would be a good first step. That will give you fair grounding in how to damage a human body whether you have tools or not. Once you have that knowledge, it's amazing how you start to view everyday objects as things you can defend yourself with.

    Anatomy. . .worth studying regardless. The Body Worlds museum exhibits are some of the best lessons on how to address a three-dimensional target you could ever hope for. Lots of first aid benefits too, should you ever be on the receiving end.

    A knife is something that you should have on you at all times you legally can. Not even so much as a weapon, just that it's a damn useful tool that can ALSO be used to defend yourself. With that in mind, it's worth shopping for the box opener that can also be used for making Filet O' Felon.

    My own preferences:

    1. Non-serrated kept sharp is preferable to serrated. Half-serrated doesn't really give you enough of either.

    2. Manual one-hand opening. I like the Spyderco thumb holes, and have lately been carrying a Benchmade Griptilian with a sheepsfoot point that has both the hole and an Axis lock that allows opening by pulling the lock and flicking. I DO NOT like spring-assisted openers, as I seem to nearly cut myself every time I try one.

    3. 3-4 inch blades are practical to the task - large enough for most big knife jobs, but not so much as to be stupid-huge, and usually legal.

    4. Not a fan of finger grooves on the grip. I've trained to hold them both like a chef's knife and an icepick. Grooves just get in my way of being able to switch.

    5. Pocket clips. Good for keeping the knife quickly accessible in a constant location, but. . .(heavy sigh). . .I really liked the ones on the older Spyderco Enduras that were molded as part of the plastic handle. Presumably, they discontinued those because a lot of people snapped them off, but I never had that problem. The metal clips that screw on to most of the new knives - I snapped two of Spyderco's and have lost a couple Benchmades because they bent out slightly and lost their grip. Periodically removing, re-bending, and re-installing is a fact of life for me.

    Like Zee, I'll be looking to cut more than stab - the goal being to incapacitate with blood loss, limbs that don't function, and the sheer psychological impact that can go with a multi-inch fissure across whatever valuable parcels of meat that have gone unblemished to that point in your adversary's life. Stabs certainly aren't off the table, but they have to be more selectively placed to rapidly make your problem go away.

    Some curvature to the edge is desirable because on a cut, that focuses the power of your swing onto a smaller piece of steel. A kukri is the extreme example of this - obviously not a pocket knife, but looking at one will get your brain in the right place. Too much curve (dedicated skinning knife) takes away from ability to stab. Knives that taper down to a long, needle-like point are just asking to get snapped off. Stuff that maintains full blade thickness almost to the point will hold up a lot better - the Japanese katana/tanto style being the most obvious examples of this. Tantos have much to recommend them purely as a fighting style, and are somewhat easier to sharpen because of the two separate and distinct edges, but the reinforced armor-piercing point is just a little too thick for delicate work, which I why I ended up with the sheepsfoot as a compromise between that and the drop point.

    Finally, a hollow grind on the blade is a nice feature. A flat-ground blade looks like a simple V in cross-section, where a hollow-grind looks more like the blade was shaped with a large-diameter wheel. This will reduce the amount of resistance on a cut and get you deeper toward the Tootsie Roll center with less effort.
    WWJMBD?

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  9. #69
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Farm Boy Deuce View Post
    Anything can be a weapon. A Yeti cup would make a passable bludgeon. Your mindset is going to be most important, I am fully prepared to rip open a throat with my teeth. I would rather use my 12” pump pliers or a knife or gun but my first rule is “I go home alive.”

    Just be creative and violent.


    Reminds me of this scene:




    Knife fighting:

    While slashing has more to offer and would be my preferred choice let's also consider that it's not an option for some. ..... How? Why not?

    Limited mobility. That's why a gun is often the first choice. I get that. For those that don't suffer from this consider yourselves lucky. You have more options.

    To stab or slash....Depends. Don't like that answer, too bad. A lot will depend on your own abilities. How's the saying go, "Speak for yourself." If you have the ability/mobility aka athleticism then learn knife fighting techniques. Take a class.

    Here's an example of knife fighting used in the movie, The Hunted.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSKCIY7TmSA

    If you suffer from limited mobility either from age or injury (shoulder injuries) but you're not completely out of the game then the economy of motion afforded by stabbing techniques might serve you better. They are simply, easy to remember and don't require a great deal of practice to be moderately effective. It's better than just pleading for your life if you can't run.

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned stun devices. (not just Tasers)

    https://www.defensedevices.com/rattan-sword-cane.html

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  10. #70

    Re: Self defense without a gun

    One thing that I have been carrying when I have to go into a 'secure area' (airports, courtrooms, etc...) where you cant even take a worthwhile blade is this:

    https://olightworld.com/led-flashlig...ht-m2r-warrior

    up to 1500 lumens with a hell of a throw, and just small enough for EDC. It is pretty much impossible to keep your eyes open when hit with that beam. Plus, it can be a pretty handy impact weapon.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov

  11. #71
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker View Post
    And that stab to the heart is not immediately fatal.....I've seen some remarkably active (and aggressive) folks that have been stabbed in the heart and didn't even know it....
    A stab to the heart is very much preferable to a slash to the arm.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
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  12. #72
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    A stab to the heart is very much preferable to a slash to the arm.
    Stab to heart and the guy still has a gun in his hand to shoot you.
    Slash to the arm to render it and the gun he is holding useless.

    Doesn't seem like rocket surgery to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

    I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Stiletto VS machete- - - - -I wonder who's going to win that game?

    Jerry
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  14. #74
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    Stiletto VS machete- - - - -I wonder who's going to win that game?

    Jerry
    Ask Zorba. He wears stilettos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

    I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    Stab to heart and the guy still has a gun in his hand to shoot you.
    Slash to the arm to render it and the gun he is holding useless.

    Doesn't seem like rocket surgery to me.
    You can’t make sense to the senseless.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  16. #76
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Everything that I target (save the gut and thoracic cavity) is at the fulcrum of a functional and vital part of the body.

    Think if the tendons/ligaments/arteries at the following:

    wrist
    elbow
    arm pit
    neck juncture
    groin
    knee
    ankle

    Everything is at a fulcrum of sorts that attracts the eye and guides the blade. And every target houses something vital to the function and survival of the ass clown in question.

    I’ve had years and years to practice dismemberment on hundreds upon hundreds of animals to know that..........I can take your arm off in short order. Try kicking my ass without an arm while spewing life giving blood from your brachial artery. Or, standing with your Adductor Longus, Pubic Tubercle, and Femoral Artery severed with one cut.

    The list goes on.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  17. #77
    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

  18. #78
    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by early View Post
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????
    Slash across the throat
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  19. #79
    Senior Member Eli's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by early View Post
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.
    I've said it before, but it bears repeating...don't bring a knife to a gun fight is good advice, but the reciprocal of that is also very, VERY true.

  20. #80
    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by early View Post
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????
    Stab behind the throat, push or pull out towards the front.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

  21. #81
    Moderator Jayhawker's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    You can’t make sense to the senseless.
    ....or the deliberately obtuse....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"

  22. #82
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by early View Post
    This thread has changed some of my notions about the effectiveness of a knife.

    I am curious as to how you more learned knife users would deploy your blades to defend against a dog that has clamped it's jaws on an arm or leg????
    Fall on top of the dog. Using your body weight to pin him. The damage cause to you is by the dog locking on and thrusting back I a tugging motion.

    Pinning them lessens the damage and allows you you to utilize the blade to slit it’s throat or repeatedly stab it in the chest like a maniac. Which again, takes a lot more effort than cutting it in the right place.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  23. #83

    Re: Self defense without a gun

    That James Bond only happens in the movies... (name that movie)

  24. #84
    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Alright.
    The throat it is.

    Or have a gun.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Smart and /or experienced people: I am in Guatemala and brought a Cold Steel Rajah 2 and a Gerber E-Z out. I also have a 1000 lumen Streamlight that clips in my pocket. Any opinions on my kit and specifically on the effectiveness of the Rajah 2. What might I add to keep me and my family safe besides vigilance and situational awareness. Thanks.
    Some threads I read for information. Others I read for entertainment value.

  26. #86
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post

    She's a sweetheart!

    To answer the question, I carry a knife, an assisted opening one. I worked in a slaughterhouse for a while, so I know where to cut to do the most good with least effort. And having had the fun of being on Shore Patrol, I got a lot of experience with a baton whether I wanted to or not, so going without a pistol, I'd also be taking along my cane. A Blackthorn cane head to the knee or head is good to calm down somebody and keep them beyond arms reach.
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
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  27. #87
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    Everything that I target (save the gut and thoracic cavity) is at the fulcrum of a functional and vital part of the body.

    Think if the tendons/ligaments/arteries at the following:

    wrist
    elbow
    arm pit
    neck juncture
    groin
    knee
    ankle

    Everything is at a fulcrum of sorts that attracts the eye and guides the blade. And every target houses something vital to the function and survival of the ass clown in question.

    I’ve had years and years to practice dismemberment on hundreds upon hundreds of animals to know that..........I can take your arm off in short order. Try kicking my ass without an arm while spewing life giving blood from your brachial artery. Or, standing with your Adductor Longus, Pubic Tubercle, and Femoral Artery severed with one cut.

    The list goes on.
    What he said and targets listed are where it's at. Major arteries and ligaments to disable quickly. And if you've got time to stab then you have more than enough time to slash HARD before pulling the blade out. A sucking chest wound instead of a knife blade width hole is better.
    As to ankle, that Achilles Tendon is the prime target if it is made available.
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society. --Mark Twain

  28. #88
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    Just an old fart making the PC Patrol earn their pay!

  29. #89
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoemaker Seth View Post
    Smart and /or experienced people: I am in Guatemala and brought a Cold Steel Rajah 2 and a Gerber E-Z out. I also have a 1000 lumen Streamlight that clips in my pocket. Any opinions on my kit and specifically on the effectiveness of the Rajah 2. What might I add to keep me and my family safe besides vigilance and situational awareness. Thanks.
    In that neck of the woods I would be thinking kidnappings to, so anything that will aid in escape. Handcuff keys, a length of chord that will saw through zip ties fast. Small easily hidden sharp things that will cut rope type stuff and ways of hiding close to body or in regular clothing items like belts and shoes. I know it sounds silly to some but a LOUD whistle attracts a lot of attention potential attackers usually do not want. Some rudimentary training in hand to hand combat for everyone in the family would be great to.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

  30. #90
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Self defense without a gun

    Steel-toed boots/shoes. It's hard to kidnap or rob anybody while holding onto one's family jewels with both hands and puking your guts up! While he's bent over double, apply a knee to his nose, vigorously and repeatedly.
    Jerry
    Last edited by Teach; 12-24-2017 at 12:11 AM.
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
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