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Thread: Sessions to go after legal pot

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    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Sessions to go after legal pot

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-flourish.html

    Sorry he was a bad pick for that job and this is terrible policy. This is on the wrong side of public opinion and the wrong side of history. Then again not at all surprising. But it is surprising Trump is letting him do it. This could end up with some interesting Supreme Court cases if he really goes after people. A strong constitutional argument could be made that as long as the pot (or any drug) never crosses state lines the feds have no power to regulate it.
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    Moderator Wambli Ska's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Wow an AG that enforces Federal law!!!! What a scumbag...

    If change is needed it needs to come from the elected representatives via changes in LAW!!! About time his position is not filled by someone that thinks he gets to decide which laws to enforce...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

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    Senior Member Varmintmist's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    No such thing as legal pot.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

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    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Until the Federal Law on marijuana is changed, the states legalizing it are just playing with themselves in the bathroom. I find it hilarious that Liberals are for more government all the time, and get bent when 'more government' bites them in the junk. The states passing laws legalizing marijuana and thumbing their noses at the feds is similar to the tail thinking it can wag the dog. And uber Liberal Hawaii is making any 'legal marijuana users' in their state turn in their firearms. One of those Catch 22 situations that Liberals didn't think about. Unintended consequences are biting pot smokers in their butts, and with the state's pseudo gun registration and pot lists, they know whose doors to knock down and collect the firearms.

    Until Federal Law is changed, then the Liberal states are just screwing their constituents with this mess. They're giving them a nickel bag of trinkets in trade for Manhattan Island!
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    Senior Member BigDanS's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    I totally agree with enforcing the laws of this country. We have an issue with weed now, States rights vs. Federal law, and we all know Federal law trumps State law.

    My opinion is rather than trying to skate uphill on this issue, the Feds should reclassify marijuana as a schedule three drug from a schedule one drug. It is NOT a schedule one drug by definition. Equally the Feds ought to make some standards for intoxication and impairment, and enforce them the same way they enforce the drinking age. If you don't follow the Federal guidelines, you do not get Federal funding for roads, etc.

    I recently read a opinion something like, " Millions of illegals, smoking legalized weed, driving without insurance, what could go wrong?"

    I have also heard the cries of those who want to keep the RTKABA and use THC products, since Federal law prohibits it. I get that weed makes most people mellow, but I cannot condone people being completely lit and handling firearms, let alone licensing them to carry concealed in public. The Libertarian in me says we need no CCW Permits because of the 2nd amendment, but at the same time, who wants the intoxicated to carry?

    The entire West Coast has voted to legalize recreational use; Washington State, Oregon and California.

    I have always been an advocate of following the law, and here we have a clear case of conflict between the Feds and the States. I think Sessions is wrong. He isn't going to stop this tide. Rather, I think it would be more prudent to change the laws, tax the maximum out of it, and promote education and treatment. My 13 year old lives in Oregon and we have had plenty of time to talk about how it is not good for you, and why she should not try it, just like cigarettes. Education and parental example is the key.

    IMHO.

    D
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    If the federal gov't refuses to enforce just 1 law, then it should not enforce ANY law.

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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    While they're at it, why not just make booze illegal? As much as I dislike people smoking pot, booze is a far worse drug so outlaw it too.

    Oh wait, we already tried that - didn't work out too well did it?
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    Senior Member early's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Big government to the rescue! Thank god these wise and noble superiors in Washington are here to save us from ourselves God bless America
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.

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    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by early View Post
    Big government to the rescue! Thank god these wise and noble superiors in Washington are here to save us from ourselves God bless America
    Protecting you from the cradle to the grave!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
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    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Wow an AG that enforces Federal law!!!! What a scumbag...

    If change is needed it needs to come from the elected representatives via changes in LAW!!! About time his position is not filled by someone that thinks he gets to decide which laws to enforce...


    As long as a federal law is on the books the AG is legally obligated to enforce it, whether he, or the general public agrees with that law or not. If the general public disagrees with a law, the proper procedure is to take it up with Congress, which is the only government entity with the legal power to change laws (although too many federal judges think they have that right also).

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    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Left wing philosophy is to make a law for everything imaginable and then appoint an intellectually superior being to pick and choose ones which to enforce, according to political expediency and party politics. A public servant who simply enforces laws that are on the books appeals to me - especially if those laws are applied equally to the full spectrum of economic and political categories. I tend to side with a state's right to make their own laws, even though I think proliferation of marijuana is a bad thing, whenever there is an opportunity for youngsters to abuse themselves with it.

    As for Sessions, I have been disappointed in him from the beginning, and his continuing failure to clean up the FBI hierarchy just makes me feel worse about him, as time goes on. He is presiding over an impending Constitutional crisis by letting his No.2 man,Rosenstein, stonewall Congressional demands for documents. It makes him look as dirty as the FBI bigshots who have covered up the Fusion GPS cluster****.

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    Senior Member Make_My_Day's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-flourish.html

    Sorry he was a bad pick for that job and this is terrible policy. This is on the wrong side of public opinion and the wrong side of history. Then again not at all surprising. But it is surprising Trump is letting him do it. This could end up with some interesting Supreme Court cases if he really goes after people. A strong constitutional argument could be made that as long as the pot (or any drug) never crosses state lines the feds have no power to regulate it.
    Federal law supersedes state law regardless of state lines. As far as Sessions being a bad pick: I agree with you, but for a different reason. I think he was a bad pick because he is doing nothing to clean up the justice department and I don't understand why.
    Last edited by Make_My_Day; 01-04-2018 at 05:38 PM.
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    Senior Member BigDanS's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by 10canyon53 View Post


    As long as a federal law is on the books the AG is legally obligated to enforce it, whether he, or the general public agrees with that law or not. If the general public disagrees with a law, the proper procedure is to take it up with Congress, which is the only government entity with the legal power to change laws (although too many federal judges think they have that right also).
    While it is true that the Congress can make a law, it is also true that with the stroke of a pen, the FDA could reclassify marijuana, without a single Congressional vote.

    D
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    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    I agree that no state law trumps federal law. But I agree with Alpha in one respect, Sessions was a poor pick. Before he goes off on his own quest to get the states in line with Fed. Law, he needs to investigate a few people, like Hillary and Obummer.

    I keep hearing people say they're going to do that and I keep thinking in Which Millennium do they plan on doing it? He needs to get his priorities straight and go for the most important things first. Here we have people trying to impeach one of the best presidents we ever had because they don't like him and he beat their favorite Shero. I think Sessions is thinking if he goes after pot that it will distract people from worrying about Hillary, Comey and Obummer.

    I think the pot people should have tried to get pot legalized federally first before making it so called legal at the state level. But that's just not a big priority with me. When Sessions gets Hillary and Comey locked up then I'll overlook his pettiness about going after pot. I have a feeling that if there wasn't an issue over Hillary, Comey, and Obummer, the pot thing would hardly raise an eyebrow.
    Last edited by snake284; 01-04-2018 at 05:53 PM.
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    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Wow an AG that enforces Federal law!!!! What a scumbag...

    If change is needed it needs to come from the elected representatives via changes in LAW!!! About time his position is not filled by someone that thinks he gets to decide which laws to enforce...
    Are you aware that there is no law passed by Congress that outlaws pot? The Controlled Substance Act gives power to the DEA to determine which drugs are outlawed. Thus the Executive branch has complete authority over which drugs are treated in what way. Congress could pass a law overruling the DEA, but they haven't yet and don't need to for pot to be removed from the schedule 1 list. One of Obama's biggest failures imho was not instructing the DEA to downgrade pot from schedule 1. The only reason pot is illegal at the federal level is that Nixon's AG at the time the DEA was formed said it was.
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    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10canyon53 View Post


    As long as a federal law is on the books the AG is legally obligated to enforce it, whether he, or the general public agrees with that law or not. If the general public disagrees with a law, the proper procedure is to take it up with Congress, which is the only government entity with the legal power to change laws (although too many federal judges think they have that right also).
    Wrong. See reply to Wambli. Congress never outlawed pot. It was an administrative decision made by an AG 45 years ago that outlawed pot and an administrative decision by the DEA today can reverse it. That simple.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    All powers not enumerated to the Federal Government resides within the States. The problem is if the Supreme's rule in favor of the States it opens up
    a huge can of worms regarding EPA,BATF, BLM and others

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    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    Wrong. See reply to Wambli. Congress never outlawed pot. It was an administrative decision made by an AG 45 years ago that outlawed pot and an administrative decision by the DEA today can reverse it. That simple.
    NOTHING in the Constitution gives Congress the authority to delegate law making powers to an unelected and mostly unregulated government agency. Read the Constitution and weep. IF marijuana is to be deregulated and kept that way, THEN ONLY CONGRESS HAS THE DELEGATED AUTHORITY TO DO SO. Why is THAT so hard to understand? Holding up a past President (Nixon) for doing something stupid via the AG does not negate the FACT that Congress can and should take on the problem of passing a law and outlining regulations on enforcement. Doing otherwise and expecting the DEA and FDA to make a ruling and sticking to it is akin to asking a woman to make up her mind! I'm surprised that the DEA and FDA don't crap their pants trying to make a decision on anything.
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
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    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by tennmike View Post
    NOTHING in the Constitution gives Congress the authority to delegate law making powers to an unelected and mostly unregulated government agency. Read the Constitution and weep. IF marijuana is to be deregulated and kept that way, THEN ONLY CONGRESS HAS THE DELEGATED AUTHORITY TO DO SO. Why is THAT so hard to understand? Holding up a past President (Nixon) for doing something stupid via the AG does not negate the FACT that Congress can and should take on the problem of passing a law and outlining regulations on enforcement. Doing otherwise and expecting the DEA and FDA to make a ruling and sticking to it is akin to asking a woman to make up her mind! I'm surprised that the DEA and FDA don't crap their pants trying to make a decision on anything.
    This is true, however regulations by Federal agencies, (which are under the Executive Branch of Government, IE the President) are a fact of life and are viewed as legal and are normally enforced. Right or wrong they are a reality. This gets complicated. BUT as you say, there's nothing in the Constitution giving any entity in the Government the power to make law other than the legislature, which makes statutes, what we call laws. Even by current interpretation, statutes (laws made by the legislature) trump all other things considered law every time just like Federal law trumps state law.

    This being the case, both houses of Congress need to get off their asses and make some statutes that will make pot legal or illegal and if legal, make rules for regulating its use. That needs to happen ASAP!

    According to present legal precedent, there's three kinds of law. There's Statutory law, laws or statutes made by the legislature which trump all other types of law, There's Court Precedence, rulings made over various situations by courts, whch are trumped by statutes but trump regulations, and Regulations made by federal agencies under the executive branch. They are the lowest form of law and are trumped by both statutes and court precedence. I myself think this is not copacetic with the Constitution, but it has slowly gained acceptance and is now recognized as being the legal way to do legal business.

    Maybe, as Mark Levin advises, we need a Constitutional Convention to outline what's legal and illegal according to the original writings of the Constitution and can be changed or re-affirmed by 2/3s the states legslatures and could be used to get the legal world and the courts to living by the Constitution as it was written.

    One reason this hasn't been done yet is because a lot of people are worried that if there's ever a constitutional convention like this, nowadays the way some people think, they're afraid that the constitution may take a bad beating in such a convention, which would open the door to wholesale constitutional changes, and turn out a totally different document than the one that made this country great and keeps it the freest place on the planet.
    Last edited by snake284; 01-04-2018 at 09:19 PM.
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    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by tennmike View Post
    NOTHING in the Constitution gives Congress the authority to delegate law making powers to an unelected and mostly unregulated government agency. Read the Constitution and weep. IF marijuana is to be deregulated and kept that way, THEN ONLY CONGRESS HAS THE DELEGATED AUTHORITY TO DO SO. Why is THAT so hard to understand? Holding up a past President (Nixon) for doing something stupid via the AG does not negate the FACT that Congress can and should take on the problem of passing a law and outlining regulations on enforcement. Doing otherwise and expecting the DEA and FDA to make a ruling and sticking to it is akin to asking a woman to make up her mind! I'm surprised that the DEA and FDA don't crap their pants trying to make a decision on anything.
    I believe you are vastly out of touch how the federal government actually works. Congress did pass a law, but not specifically to outlaw pot or any other drug. It created a giant bureaucracy and handed over authority over regulating and enforcing laws to the DEA and FDA. Those agencies then use the statutory authority given to them by congress to make up the rules within the bounds of the law Congress passed. Congress never said "pot is illegal" they just gave the DEA the authority to decided that pot was bad for people and therefore is now illegal. The entire war on drugs is in the hands of an un-elected bureaucracy who's existence and reason for being relies on there being a war on drugs for them to fight. Shocking they won't willingly give up the fight therefore invalidating their entire reason for existing in the first place (and their cushy government jobs along with it).
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    Are you aware that there is no law passed by Congress that outlaws pot? The Controlled Substance Act gives power to the DEA to determine which drugs are outlawed. Thus the Executive branch has complete authority over which drugs are treated in what way. Congress could pass a law overruling the DEA, but they haven't yet and don't need to for pot to be removed from the schedule 1 list. One of Obama's biggest failures imho was not instructing the DEA to downgrade pot from schedule 1. The only reason pot is illegal at the federal level is that Nixon's AG at the time the DEA was formed said it was.
    Ok, I'm sorry I'm not up on the legal history of pot. In ANY case until there is a change in the DEA it is the JOB of the AG to enforce what is in the books. So if enough folks amongst "The PEOPLE" think this is an important issue they will make it a priority for their elected representatives to do something about it. In the meantime the whole non-pot smoking world is ...... ........ on the issue...
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    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Ok, I'm sorry I'm not up on the legal history of pot. In ANY case until there is a change in the DEA it is the JOB of the AG to enforce what is in the books. So if enough folks amongst "The PEOPLE" think this is an important issue they will make it a priority for their elected representatives to do something about it. In the meantime the whole non-pot smoking world is ...... ........ on the issue...
    Those in Washington are always last to the party. You are right though and this will probably become another reasonably large issue come November and one that won't be kind to Republicans. The CO Republican senator is already threatening to refuse to vote for any DOJ nominees until Sessions changes his stance on this because he has to face re-election in a state with legal pot. Public opinion is already almost 2 to 1 in favor of legalization. Much like Dems on gun control this is a losing issue for Republicans and the sooner they recognize it, the less damage they'll do to themselves.
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    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Ok- - - -let me get this straight- - - -we've already got two perfectly legal addictive substances that cause untold millions of dollars' worth of sickness and death already- - - -alcohol and tobacco. Make that three if we count prescription opiods. Now there's a huge hue and cry to legalize yet another mind-altering substance that has the potential to create even more mayhem. Maybe all of us with more than three unaltered brain cells to rub together can rejoice in the hope than even more stupid, self-centered people bent on having their own way regardless of the danger they pose to other people will eventually Darwin themselves out of the gene pool. Shouldn't we insist that those idiots undergo voluntary sterilization first, so they won't be able to pass the stupid gene on to the next generation?

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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDanS View Post
    While it is true that the Congress can make a law, it is also true that with the stroke of a pen, the FDA could reclassify marijuana, without a single Congressional vote.

    D
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    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    Ok- - - -let me get this straight- - - -we've already got two perfectly legal addictive substances that cause untold millions of dollars' worth of sickness and death already- - - -alcohol and tobacco. Make that three if we count prescription opiods. Now there's a huge hue and cry to legalize yet another mind-altering substance that has the potential to create even more mayhem. Maybe all of us with more than three unaltered brain cells to rub together can rejoice in the hope than even more stupid, self-centered people bent on having their own way regardless of the danger they pose to other people will eventually Darwin themselves out of the gene pool. Shouldn't we insist that those idiots undergo voluntary sterilization first, so they won't be able to pass the stupid gene on to the next generation?

    Jerry
    And how has criminalization helped to stop people who want to use it from using it? Legalization has put gangs and drug dealers out of business and created a multi billion dollar legal industry that's now generating billions in tax revenues for states and feds (people working in the industry have to pay federal taxes unlike illegal drug dealers) rather than costing billions in enforcement.
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    And how has criminalization helped to stop people who want to use it from using it? Legalization has put gangs and drug dealers out of business and created a multi billion dollar legal industry that's now generating billions in tax revenues for states and feds (people working in the industry have to pay federal taxes unlike illegal drug dealers) rather than costing billions in enforcement.
    Exactly! The whole WOD is asinine. Billions are spent between enforcement and incarceration with little to no effect whatsoever.

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    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    I believe you are vastly out of touch how the federal government actually works. Congress did pass a law, but not specifically to outlaw pot or any other drug. It created a giant bureaucracy and handed over authority over regulating and enforcing laws to the DEA and FDA. Those agencies then use the statutory authority given to them by congress to make up the rules within the bounds of the law Congress passed. Congress never said "pot is illegal" they just gave the DEA the authority to decided that pot was bad for people and therefore is now illegal. The entire war on drugs is in the hands of an un-elected bureaucracy who's existence and reason for being relies on there being a war on drugs for them to fight. Shocking they won't willingly give up the fight therefore invalidating their entire reason for existing in the first place (and their cushy government jobs along with it).
    No. It is YOU that is totally out of touch with the CONSTITUTION! It was racical Republican AND Democratic administrations that had a decidedly LIBERAL bent on circumventing the Constitution, the law of the land, and subverting and perverting the government into what it is now.

    https://www.congress.gov/legislative-process
    Article I of the U.S. Constitution grants all legislative powers to a bicameral Congress: a House of Representatives and a Senate that are the result of a “Great Compromise” seeking to balance the effects of popular majorities with the interests of the states. Our system currently provides for a two-year term of office for House members from the 435 population-based districts. In the Senate, voters of each state elect two Senators, who serve 6-year terms that overlap (such that only one-third of the chamber is up for election in any given election cycle).

    The two chambers are fundamentally equal in their legislative roles and functions. Only the House can originate revenue legislation, and only the Senate confirms presidential nominations and approves treaties, but the enactment of law always requires both chambers to separately agree to the same bill in the same form before presenting it to the President.


    Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING in Article 1 gives Congress power or authority to delegate lawmaking to ANYONE. You're supposedly college educated. READ ARTICLE 1 of the Constitution and point out specifically where they have that authority. Don't give me that lame arsed CRAP about how Liberals, Socialists, and brain dead idiots in the Congress, the Executive branch, and the Supreme court violated the Constitution on numerous times to subvert the Constitution for their own subversive designs. The Constitution is the law of the land, PERIOD. If you are unable, unwilling, or incapable of that simple understanding, then you are beyond salvage.
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    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    They can use all they want- - - - -I'd even support providing unlimited, subsidized supplies of the drug of choice to addicts. Just make them sign a waiver that prohibits emergency room care for the consequences of their stupidity. Ditto for publicly financed resuscitation of drug OD's, etc. The problem should solve itself pretty quickly by the hardcore abusers dying. The fools who drive buzzed and/or do other things that kill or injure others need to receive a mandatory 10 year prison sentence for a first offense. Alcohol-induced injuries or homicides should carry the same penalty.
    Jerry
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Sometimes the best way to motivate the reform a law is to enforce it to the letter. The unintended consequences are often a powerful inducement.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
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    Re: Sessions to go after legal pot

    Quote Originally Posted by alphasigmookie View Post
    Those in Washington are always last to the party. You are right though and this will probably become another reasonably large issue come November and one that won't be kind to Republicans. The CO Republican senator is already threatening to refuse to vote for any DOJ nominees until Sessions changes his stance on this because he has to face re-election in a state with legal pot. Public opinion is already almost 2 to 1 in favor of legalization. Much like Dems on gun control this is a losing issue for Republicans and the sooner they recognize it, the less damage they'll do to themselves.

    We recently had a primarily Democratic administration for eight years that didn't legalize pot and now a Republican administration that doesn't legalize pot is going to lose favor with the public? I think that you over rate the importance of pot to the average American. It might be important in your circles but I'm pretty sure that the general public thinks that there are more important things to worry about.
    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .

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