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Thread: Releoading philosophies

  1. #61
    Moderator Linefinder's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by MileHighShooter View Post
    Freezer I do the same with bullets. I weigh them all and separate by weight and see how big the deviation is, and load in groups of identical or near identical weight. No real reason other than I feel like it. Playing with Sierra bullets recently, I'm REALLY impressed with how uniform they are. My favorite elk bullets (FailSafe) not so much.
    I used to do that, too. Even weighed primers and cases. Nothing wrong with it, and you can kill a lot of "snowed-in" time doing something other than TV.

    Eventually I discovered that lot-to-lot powder burn rates varied enough that my careful weight sorting was not much more than idle amusement.

    Nowadays I sharpen knives. More return on the investment.

    Mike
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  2. #62
    Senior Member MileHighShooter's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    It does kill time and keeps me in the gun room doing something productive. If I was doing high volume ammo, I wouldn't. But I haven't gotten around to doing any of that yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    I would suck start my Pistol if I had to weigh every bullet/primer/case and separate into batches of 10ths of a grain.

    I would rather slam my head in a door.

    I get why some folks do it for the precision and minute accuracy . I’m just saying.........I’d go cross eyed.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith

  4. #64
    Moderator Linefinder's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by MileHighShooter View Post
    It does kill time and keeps me in the gun room doing something productive. If I was doing high volume ammo, I wouldn't. But I haven't gotten around to doing any of that yet.
    Now you're talking. I don't weigh any components for pdog ammo. There just simply isn't enough time.

    But...I have 40 select cases for my 6mm Rem that weigh practically the same. They are my antelope cases, and aside from zero verification, that's all they get used for. I even hand trickle powder when loading these.

    I have the same for my .270 with my 160 grain Partition load. Although heavy for caliber, it's the most accurate load I've developed for that rifle. But, I'm pushing the edge with that load, so I figure consistency across components is a good thing.

    I also buy powder in kegs, instead of pounds. That cuts down greatly on heartache due to lot to lot variations.

    But, aside from those two....nothing special. Well, maybe the 30BR, if I ever decide to shoot competition again.
    Mike
    Last edited by Linefinder; 01-14-2018 at 08:12 PM.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member MileHighShooter's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Went to Rapier's place years ago when Steve and I started reloading, selecting bullets by weight, hand trickled charge, and weighed cases got me a SD of like 3. Almost every shot went through the screens at the exact same speed. After that, I just kept doing it that way
    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.

  6. #66
    Moderator Linefinder's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by MileHighShooter View Post
    Freezer I do the same with bullets. I weigh them all and separate by weight and see how big the deviation is, and load in groups of identical or near identical weight. No real reason other than I feel like it. Playing with Sierra bullets recently, I'm REALLY impressed with how uniform they are. My favorite elk bullets (FailSafe) not so much.
    Without exaggeration, an SD of 3 is truly world class ammo. I once fired a five shot string that had an SD of 6, but I figure if I'd fired another round, it would gave been a happy day if it landed within 25. So....I quit while the numbers were looking good.

    I finally figured out shooting one-shot competition that my personal SD was probably 300. No kidding. What I had (or hadn't) for breakfast.....how long since the BP med....etc., made more difference to the outcome than practically any attention to detail I paid to my ammo.

    It was humbling to learn that I routinely, without much special effort, built ammo that would perform better than me any day of the week.

    Mike

    Edit...Sorry...quoted the wrong post, and can't seem to fix it.
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    I would suck start my Pistol if I had to weigh every bullet/primer/case and separate into batches of 10ths of a grain.

    I would rather slam my head in a door.

    I get why some folks do it for the precision and minute accuracy . Im just saying.........Id go cross eyed.
    Ahhh. . . this stirs fond memories of OCD-driven hours at the Dillon digital scale. . .

    My Highpower competition was concurrent with my days of LGS employment, and largely before I moved out of my folk's place and got married. There was a lot of work done to play the game on the funds available that I'd consider a false economy today, now that my time is actually WORTH something.

    The IMI .308 brass WAS/IS good stuff, but every case ended up sorted by weight into 2 different batches. Happily, brass seems to have gotten better overall. Nowadays, if I need insane precision, it's buy the required number of Lapua hulls and forget it.

    At the time, I saved the Match Kings for the 600 yard line. My 200 and 300 yard bullets were from a 5,000-count purchase of 148 grain boat tail 7.62 NATO pull-downs that Widener's was selling cheap. . .and I weighed and sorted each and every one of the little buggers. The variability ultimately bit me in the ass. When I briefly returned to the game, I used an old dummy round to set the seating length for one of the different weight batches. . .and ended up at a match with an OAL on my rapid fire ammo that wouldn't fit the magazine.

    I've sorted the mid-grade Federal Gold Medal .22LR ammo that was on hand by rim thickness and weight so that each member of my shooting team could go to a major match with stuff that was as consistent as possible. It paid off in medals won, however, the real moral of the story is to JUST BUY THE FREAKIN' ELEY 10X!!
    WWJMBD?

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  8. #68
    Senior Member MileHighShooter's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by Linefinder View Post
    Without exaggeration, an SD of 3 is truly world class ammo. I once fired a five shot string that had an SD of 6, but I figure if I'd fired another round, it would gave been a happy day if it landed within 25. So....I quit while the numbers were looking good.

    I finally figured out shooting one-shot competition that my personal SD was probably 300. No kidding. What I had (or hadn't) for breakfast.....how long since the BP med....etc., made more difference to the outcome than practically any attention to detail I paid to my ammo.

    It was humbling to learn that I routinely, without much special effort, built ammo that would perform better than me any day of the week.

    Mike

    Edit...Sorry...quoted the wrong post, and can't seem to fix it.
    Wasn't my most accurate load, but Rapier did point out not to expect strings like that too often haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wambli Ska View Post
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Six-Gun's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post
    I would suck start my Pistol if I had to weigh every bullet/primer/case and separate into batches of 10ths of a grain.

    I would rather slam my head in a door.

    I get why some folks do it for the precision and minute accuracy . I’m just saying.........I’d go cross eyed.
    I loooong ago left such endeavors to folks with a whole lot more time (and masochistic tendencies) than me.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.

  10. #70
    Senior Member orchidman's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Hmmm reloading philosophies..............

    I do want it to go bang when I squeeze the trigger....
    I do want it to hit where I was aiming...
    I do want whatever I am trying to kill to die as quickly as possible...
    I dont want my firearm to blow up..
    If it is going faster than other loads using the same projectile and does the above 4 things its a bonus...
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....

  11. #71
    Senior Member JasonMPD's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    With affordable 9mm and 5.56 out there right now my reloading has almost halted entirely. 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor is all I load right now.
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. Will Rogers

  12. #72

    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMPD View Post
    With affordable 9mm and 5.56 out there right now my reloading has almost halted entirely. 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor is all I load right now.
    what powder do you use for the Creed?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
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  13. #73
    Senior Member JasonMPD's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by bullsi1911 View Post
    what powder do you use for the Creed?
    H4350
    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. Will Rogers

  14. #74

    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMPD View Post
    H4350
    Thx
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
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  15. #75
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMPD View Post
    H4350
    Which makes 4350 hard to find. Everyone is buying it up for 6.5 creed. Luckily I was at a store when they were stocking the shelves and bought 4-5 pounds
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

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  16. #76
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    This spring/summer when I'll be loading for my 7-08, I'm going to break my pattern of finding a sedate, accurate load. I'm going to find a smoking fast, accurate load. It's going to be a long range deer gun. I want the flattest shooting load I can get. Saves slightly on misjudged distances, and gains in misjudged wind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zee View Post

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  17. #77
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by Linefinder View Post
    Now you're talking. I don't weigh any components for pdog ammo. There just simply isn't enough time.

    But...I have 40 select cases for my 6mm Rem that weigh practically the same. They are my antelope cases, and aside from zero verification, that's all they get used for. I even hand trickle powder when loading these.

    I have the same for my .270 with my 160 grain Partition load. Although heavy for caliber, it's the most accurate load I've developed for that rifle. But, I'm pushing the edge with that load, so I figure consistency across components is a good thing.

    I also buy powder in kegs, instead of pounds. That cuts down greatly on heartache due to lot to lot variations.

    But, aside from those two....nothing special. Well, maybe the 30BR, if I ever decide to shoot competition again.
    Mike
    Mike what twist do you have in your .270? I think mine is a standard 1 in 10. Just wonderng because I wasn't sure how it would stabilize 160 grain Spitzers. I've read that 1:10 won't stabilize the matrix 170 grains. But if it will Stabilize the 160 that's plenty. Who says there's limited bullet choice for the .270? What with 100-110-130-140-150 and 160 Grains and if you have a 1:9 twist you can probably shoot the 170s, what do you need? I've been shooting mainly 130s in mine for 51 years and it has failed me the least of all rifles I've tried.
    Last edited by snake284; 01-15-2018 at 04:35 PM.
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  18. #78

    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    This spring/summer when I'll be loading for my 7-08, I'm going to break my pattern of finding a sedate, accurate load. I'm going to find a smoking fast, accurate load. It's going to be a long range deer gun. I want the flattest shooting load I can get. Saves slightly on misjudged distances, and gains in misjudged wind.
    once I find enough components, I may load higher than usual on the creedmoor. Same reason. I'm planning to run this one long.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov

  19. #79
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    I bought my first press, an RCBS Rockchucker, in 1972, and a Lyman balance scale, and a Sierra loading manual. Mainly, I loved shooting and wanted to make my own ammo. I loaded for a Model 88 Winchester in .308, and a Ruger Blackhawk in .30 M1 Carbine. I didn't know a lot, but I was safe, except for one batch of M-1 Carbine that went through the target sideways at 25 yards, and the cases had to be tapped out with a screwdriver. This was my first compressed load, unintentional, because I used a longer bullet and did not compensate. This was an eye opener, and I was much more careful, thereafter. I got burglarized and lost my guns, married and had kids, and let my hunting, shooting, and loading go dormant for several years, just trying to keep my head above water, financially. I loaned my equipment to a friend, and haven't seen it since.

    Then, a few years ago, I got back into it because I could afford to spend a little money, finally. I eased into it, with a Lee Turret and dies for the various handguns I was acquiring on a regular basis, and eventually bought a RCBS Chargemaster and another single stage RCBS press and started loading for rifles, too.

    I suppose my hand loading philosophy, to keep it simple, is simply to have a load that makes my rifle shoot as precisely as it can, within reason. Within reason, for me, is about 0.5 MOA if possible, or whatever the rifle is capable of, if not. I want a cold bore bulls eye, and that's about it. For handguns, I just want to be able to make ammo when there are shortages, as there were when I was loading the most. I will find the bullet weight that makes it shoot closest to POA and then load a bunch of them in mostly FMJ target bullets, trying to roughly approximate the factory SD ammo I buy.

  20. #80
    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    The one time I weighed my brass and built loads with brass that was all very nearly the same weight I shot a 3 shot 100 yard group that measured .08 inches.

    That was enough, and very time consuming. I don't do it any more.
    Jerry

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  21. #81
    Moderator Linefinder's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by snake284 View Post
    Mike what twist do you have in your .270? I think mine is a standard 1 in 10. Just wonderng because I wasn't sure how it would stabilize 160 grain Spitzers. I've read that 1:10 won't stabilize the matrix 170 grains. But if it will Stabilize the 160 that's plenty. Who says there's limited bullet choice for the .270? What with 100-110-130-140-150 and 160 Grains and if you have a 1:9 twist you can probably shoot the 170s, what do you need? I've been shooting mainly 130s in mine for 51 years and it has failed me the least of all rifles I've tried.
    Browning A-Bolt Hunter, standard 10 twist skinny factory barrel with BOSS. My deer load is factory Federal Premium 130 grain NBT's. They group around a half inch. I've tried handloading these and can get better accuracy or speed, but not both. So, I just stick with the factory stuff for deer.

    My concern with the 160 Partitions was the same as yours...stability. I load them over RL22 at 2850 fps. If I've ever shot a 5 shot group with them that measured over 3/8", I don't recall it. That's pretty good with a skinny barrel, and I'll take that even in a LR varmint rig. No sign of keyholing.

    Double nice is that the BOSS setting is the same for both rounds.

    Mike
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  22. #82
    Member beanfield's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    I used to know an old mule farmer who used to run traps. He brought me an old .38 Taurus revolver that needed ''cleaning." It was very trashed out looking and rattled like a castanet when shaken. I asked him about it, then he revealed to me how he reloaded his .38 ammo.

    He used one of those Lee nut cracker jobs and never used a scale to measure his powder. He said he had an eye for reloading, then showed me his system for measuring powder... how he'd take a nickel and draw a bunch of circles on a sheet of paper, then take a spoon, filling in the circles with his favorite Red Dot shotgun powder. He'd scrape the powder off the paper with a playing card into another folded playing card and then dump it into a primed cartridge, seat a bullet and he was ready to go. I questioned him about his practices, and he told me in so many words to mind my own business.

    I did manage to get him to call Taurus. They had him send it in for inspection and two weeks later he received a brand new revolver.

  23. #83
    Moderator Linefinder's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    That one wins the internet.

    Mike
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMPD View Post
    H4350

    Same here. I use it for .260 Rem too.

  25. #85
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Quote Originally Posted by Linefinder View Post
    It was humbling to learn that I routinely, without much special effort, built ammo that would perform better than me any day of the week.
    This is a fact that I became aware of several years ago. Because I practiced too little, bought off-the-shelf rifles, and never modified the triggers, I never obsessed too much on tiny groups, once they cracked MOA. In fact, I could barely shoot MOA with most of them, with the best load I could find. Thankfully, I had an epiphany on triggers when I started shooting AR's, when I ordered my first lower receiver from RRA, and got it with the National Match Trigger, which was a 3 lb. trigger. Bingo! I was shooting 0.5 MOA consistently, with my handloads, and I was so tickled that I never even tried to get it lower than that. Since then, I have installed good triggers on four other rifles and have tightened my groups significantly on all of them.

    So, my conclusion is that obsessing on finding the absolute best load for a rifle is futile, unless your skills and equipment are top notch.

  26. #86
    Senior Member sarg1c's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    Jerry, I think as your father did... IMR4064 uses 2 gr. more powder than IMR3031, so I use IMR 3031 when possible

  27. #87
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Releoading philosophies

    In my years of reloading I have found there's a good bit difference in IMR and H 4831 powders. They're both pretty slow but the IMR is faster than the H. However, I haven't found this to be true with a few other powders that share the number. In my experience IMR and Hodgdon 4350 and 4895 seem identical to me. They are no more different than the difference between average lots within the same powder. But if you try loading with IMR 4831 using the Hodgdon 4831 recipe you're screwing with the devil's wife. That could make a pipe bomb.

    And something that may be being over looked here is that speaking about 4350 powders, some of you might want to try RL-17 as a replacement. It starts off on the low end almost identical to 4350 but on the long side I have experienced a definite gain in velocity for the same bullet over the IMR or H brand. When I first saw this I called Alliant Customer Service and told the tech rep what I had experienced. He didn't deny it and said I wasn't the only one to call about this. Then I heard that RL-17 s slightly different than most powders in the formulation in that some of the inhibitors they dust on the outside of the powder are instead included in the mix and this gives it similar performance to powders such as Hornady Superformance. Don't hold me to that statement because I have no proof of it, but I did hear it from a source I normally believe.

    Also Mike, I wish I would have bought me one of those A-Bolts when they first came out. I've heard so much good about them I feel like I dropped the ball not getting one. Nowadays I've got a bunch of Mauser actions I need to use up before I buy anything else, but I did have that project in mind to build a LR .270, just because I've had great luck with a .270 and just to prove it can do as well as anything else with the proper bullet and barrel twist. I am now going to be on the lookout for an A-Bolt action as I think from your experience it will make a great long range action. Then I can screw a 1:8 twist 28 inch .277 barrel in it and have it chambered for .270 Short Mag.
    Last edited by snake284; 01-17-2018 at 08:04 PM.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
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