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Thread: Government Shutdown

  1. #91
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Diver43 View Post
    Hearing pelosi and schumer on the news it looks like: HERE WE GO AGAIN
    My news-junkie wife told me about Pelosi's on-going drone. I think I detest that woman even more than I do Obama - and almost as much as I detest smartfones and face***k!
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  2. #92
    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver43 View Post
    Hearing pelosi and schumer on the news it looks like: HERE WE GO AGAIN
    It should pass. Senate is the big hurdle. It should pass easily there. The house can pass without a single Dem Vote, but then the "Freedom Caucus" is against it. Should be enough in the middle in both sides to pass or Pelosi and Ryan both need to go.
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  3. #93
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Pelosi needs to be talking down a deep well so she can hear her own echo- - - - -nobody else on either side is listening. She's becoming a pathetic, senile old bat (or actually she has been since she lost her oversized nutcracker when the Republicans got the majority).
    Jerry
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  4. #94
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanator View Post
    Most likely. Maybe I should show up and piss on his house next time.

    Or write it in the snow in his front yard. I will need to drink quite a bit of tea to pull that one off.
    Beet juice, Jerm, BEET JUICE. Write that tard a 'scarlet letter' in the snow on his lawn!
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  5. #95
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Here's how I think it will go:

    Schumer, at the moment is pretending to take Trump's word that the Congress will take up immigration and infrastructure immediately after the budget bill, if it is a clean bill that funds the military well enough. Trump will probably even extend the time limit on DACA, if necessary. Then the Democrats in the House can probably get Pelosi off her soapbox long enough to pass the budget bill.

    Then, they will take up DACA and the Democrats can wear their sack cloth and ashes, and accuse Republicans of hating brown children for a while before giving up to a compromise on the 25 billion for the wall, and then take some token replacement for the visa lottery and more stringent legal immigration control. Trump will put various constraints on the DACA parts that will make the pathway to citizenship more palatable to conservatives, like putting it on hold till the wall is built to a certain extent and the numbers are on a downward trend. If the flow of illegals is stopped in any sort of permanent way, conservatives will be easier to deal with on anything relating to amnesty.

    It's all a matter of whether the Dems choose the DACA issue to demagogue, or something better, to help in the mid-terms. They are in a bit of a box with DACA, because Trump has offered a better deal than even Obama tried to get. It's hard to gauge how much their Trump-hate will cloud their judgement. The Freedom Caucus will go for a logical plan that actually solves the illegal immigrant issue.
    Last edited by bisley; 02-08-2018 at 06:59 PM.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Other than claiming to be Republicans, what, exactly is different about the "Freedom Ca-Ca" group than the dummycrap obstructionists?

    Jerry
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  7. #97
    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    Here's how I think it will go:

    Schumer, at the moment is pretending to take Trump's word that the Congress will take up immigration and infrastructure immediately after the budget bill, if it is a clean bill that funds the military well enough. Trump will probably even extend the time limit on DACA, if necessary. Then the Democrats in the House can probably get Pelosi off her soapbox long enough to pass the budget bill.

    Then, they will take up DACA and the Democrats can wear their sack cloth and ashes, and accuse Republicans of hating brown children for a while before giving up to a compromise on the 25 billion for the wall, and then take some token replacement for the visa lottery and more stringent legal immigration control. Trump will put various constraints on the DACA parts that will make the pathway to citizenship more palatable to conservatives, like putting it on hold till the wall is built to a certain extent and the numbers are on a downward trend. If the flow of illegals is stopped in any sort of permanent way, conservatives will be easier to deal with on anything relating to amnesty.

    It's all a matter of whether the Dems choose the DACA issue to demagogue, or something better, to help in the mid-terms. They are in a bit of a box with DACA, because Trump has offered a better deal than even Obama tried to get. It's hard to gauge how much their Trump-hate will cloud their judgement. The Freedom Caucus will go for a logical plan that actually solves the illegal immigrant issue.
    Sounds about right. Both Immigration and The budget are things that reasonable people can come to some semblance of a reasonable compromise on. The problem is there aren't that many reasonable people in control in Washington. That said, it does seem like a few adults have taken over temporarily and might actually get something done before handing things back to the lunatic fringe to demagogue and rally their respective bases before the midterms.
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  8. #98
    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    In case anyone is interested. 20 years of congressional ineptitude captured in a single chart...

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-in-one-chart/

    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
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  9. #99
    Senior Member tennmike's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Want a real budget spending bill from Congress? Throw them all in their respective House and Senate chambers and nail the doors shut. No one in or out until they come up with a clean spending bill devoid of pork barrel and other unrelated riders. If nothing is heard from them in 6 months, open the doors, remove decaying carcasses, and hold elections. Works for me!
    Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass.Mark Twain - Notebook, 1898
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  10. #100
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    .....and closed again. I get what Rand Paul is doing and I support what he is saying, but he could have backed off earlier. There is a time and place for all this stuff and now is not exactly the time. I am sure they will have it taken care of before I wake up in the morning, but still, I don't wait until the power company is pulling my meter to protest my power rates.

  11. #101
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Diver43 View Post
    What does shutting down the Government really mean? In the past it meant that National Parks and Monuments were closed, Federal Employees stayed home, Military PCS and TDY travel stopped and once the idiots in Washington passed a budget or signed a continuing resolution, everything went back to normal.

    But, what about this time? The parks and monuments are staying open, us Government idiots can not stop business as usual for the American People. The IRS will keep processing tax returns, you can still walk in and get a passport or visa for your vacation. Pretty much business as usual.
    Step into my world and things are different. Our Military is expected to perform as normal, but are unsure if their pay will be deposited at the end of the month. My office was frantically canceling Military and Civilian travel, canceling freight shipments scheduled for pick up and starting Monday, staying home, not knowing when I will be allowed to return to work. In the past it has only been for a few weeks, 17 days in 2013, and everyone received their pay. Many of us are unsure about how long this time or when/if we will be paid. Last time I was considered key and essential and worked while everyone else stayed home and did not worry much about getting paid. This time the powers that be appointed themselves key and essential because they are unsure about pay this time. Good luck getting emergency travel for a Military member or a medivac set up by him. Meanwhile the big shots will thump their chest telling us how its not my fault blame it on the other guy.

    A real Government Shutdown would be more like: When you cant find your passport so need to cancel your cruise or flight, when you pull up to a National Park the gate is closed, when you go to the airport your flight is canceled because their is no TSA, air martials, FAA, or anything Federal working. Better yet the Secret Service and National Police stay home and leave our elected officials unprotected.

    By the way, did you know that Congress and the Senate are exempt and their pay will continue no matter what?
    My wife and I are both Federal workers and will be effected, the wife starting today as work on their LAN room is canceled because she is not allowed to work. We no longer have kids at home and are at a point in life where we dont live paycheck to paycheck, but what about that young GS-4 or GS-5 clerk just getting started and have young ones to support?

    All because a bunch of rich idiots do not care about Americans, only getting their time on TV preaching one thing and doing another. All because non documented people and their children demand more. Because Congress is too chicken shyte to pass a law doing one thing or another, the senate ties up the budget without a boatload of money for illegals? They all blame each other, but this time the bottom line is the senate saying lets shut down the Government for the sake of illegals that have been here for years and never did a thing to become legal.
    Schumer and the Dummycraps want to make it look like it's Trump's fault. It's no more Trump's fault than it is yours or mine. This is affecting me getting my girl immigrated. This sucks big wieners for a lot of people and it's all because of people wanting to hold Trump ransom for a bunch of illegals. But you know what? Trump gave in on some of that and is willing to create a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 Million of the dreamers. But that's not good enough. The dems don't really give a rat's ass about the dreamers or anybody else they claim to try to help. They just want to make the unwashed masses believe Trump is the Boogy man and to hell with us.
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  12. #102
    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanator View Post
    .....and closed again. I get what Rand Paul is doing and I support what he is saying, but he could have backed off earlier. There is a time and place for all this stuff and now is not exactly the time. I am sure they will have it taken care of before I wake up in the morning, but still, I don't wait until the power company is pulling my meter to protest my power rates.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/08/polit...sis/index.html

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  13. #103
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Yep. But this is what we wanted, I guess.

  14. #104
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanator View Post
    Yep. But this is what we wanted, I guess.
    Better than giving in on illegals.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  15. #105
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by zorba View Post
    Better than giving in on illegals.
    I wouldn't exactly characterize what is going on with that as not giving in.

  16. #106
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    I wouldn't use the phrase "fiscal responsibility" for anything either.

  17. #107
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    I've got mixed feelings about the deal, which I guess, is normal. You can't mix black and white without coming up gray, and that's what the necessary amount of compromise to pass a bill in the Senate amounts to, now.

    On the one hand, I believe we have to restore the military to necessary levels to meet some tough challenges, and I believe that tax cuts do more good than harm in the long haul, by expanding the economy and creating new wealth. On the other hand, adding another half trillion plus to the national debt seems disastrous. The only way to balance the budget is to reform entitlements in a lasting way and eliminate waste and corruption in government bureaucracies, and expand the economy. I'm pretty sure that will be a second term goal for Trump, if he can get re-elected. No first term president is going to take on something that will be that unpopular.

    So, I'm just waiting to see how immigration and infrastructure go. They are both issues that Democrats like in an election year, so it's an opportunity for Republicans to actually stop illegal immigration by giving the Dems something to crow about, on DACA, before the mid-term elections. Were it not for that, they would have been impossible to deal with on the budget, or immigration reform.

  18. #108
    Senior Member breamfisher's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanator View Post
    I wouldn't use the phrase "fiscal responsibility" for anything either.
    Agreed.

    The Legislature has 2 jobs:
    A. Make laws
    B. Pass a budget

    They've neglected both, either through allowing agencies to legislate through regulation, or by getting where we are here. Budgets shouldn't come to 11th hour decisions unless something incredibly unforeseen pops up.

    Edited to add: management by crisis, especially orchestrated crisis, is a horrible way to run things.
    Last edited by breamfisher; 02-09-2018 at 03:46 PM.
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  19. #109
    Senior Member zorba's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanator View Post
    I wouldn't exactly characterize what is going on with that as not giving in.
    Yea, you've got a point - how about "giving in further..."?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"
    "Religion can't be allowed the coercive power of government,
    government can't be allowed the 'moral' justification of religion."

  20. #110
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by zorba View Post
    Yea, you've got a point - how about "giving in further..."?
    Fair enough.

  21. #111
    Senior Member alphasigmookie's Avatar
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    This crap affects real people in real ways. I have been collecting unemployment for 3 months now. I have a job, but my company doesn't have any funding for any of my projects. DOE wants to give us money. They want the projects done, but they can't give the money until they have clear budget guidance which they haven't had.

    In the meantime I've been interviewing for other jobs. I had a great interview in which they were really interested in hiring me, but again decided not to hire anyone because of budget uncertainty. I was contacted this week about an interview for another position. Then when I followed up I was told they were on hold for at least a week or two.

    Now I will be fine. By the end of the month there will be people banging on my door begging me to work either at my current company or at one of the others I've applied to or interviewed with and they'll all want me to do 12 months worth of work in 6 because their clients will now have a full year's budget to spend and only 6-7 months to do it. I get that this is the life/career path I've chosen and I'm compensated well for it, but it's frustrating as heck and it doesn't have to be that way. It creates massive inefficiencies and has real costs to real people.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
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  22. #112
    Senior Member JerryBobCo's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by bisley View Post
    The only way to balance the budget is to reform entitlements in a lasting way and eliminate waste and corruption in government bureaucracies, and expand the economy.
    I've been hearing the old "eliminate waste and fraud" crap for as long as I've been listening, and have yet to see it happened. I doubt it ever will. Earlier this week or last week, Fox News reported that the Pentagon has $600,000,000 unaccounted for. We've had the rats guarding the cheese for so long no one knows what is really going on. And if you think the generals who decide on how military funds are spent are any better than anyone else, you need to rethink your position.

    They have been in power too long, and don't want to relinquish the reins.
    Jerry

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  23. #113
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    Earlier this week or last week, Fox News reported that the Pentagon has $600,000,000 unaccounted for. We've had the rats guarding the cheese for so long no one knows what is really going on. And if you think the generals who decide on how military funds are spent are any better than anyone else, you need to rethink your position.
    And for that, we gave them a huge budget increase. Don't get me wrong-- I fully support a strong national defense and our troops, but the waste and lack of accountability is frustrating.

  24. #114
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    The military, and a lot of other people dependent on government funding (Highway construction comes to mind, at least here in Tennessee) are so deeply entrenched in the corrupt, wasteful system that's been in place since the "New Deal" that there's virtually no way to reform things. By the time funding trickles down to the people actually doing the work, pulling the triggers, or paving the roads, the vast majority of the money has found its way into the pockets of people who never have to worry about facing the wrath of the voters- - - - -they survive and flourish no matter which bunch of politicians are driving the gravy train!
    Jerry
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  25. #115
    Senior Member Big Al1's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    As long as they are wasting money, how about wasting a little more and re-open the golf course on Tyndall!!

  26. #116
    Senior Member bisley's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryBobCo View Post
    I've been hearing the old "eliminate waste and fraud" crap for as long as I've been listening, and have yet to see it happened.
    Well, you were around when a Republican congress reformed welfare and Clinton finally signed it after vetoing it 3-4 times, because his poll numbers changed. Of course Obama negated everything that was accomplished, by executive order (mainly the work requirement).

    It's not that I disagree with you, for the most part. It's just that we do have some good people in Congress, some of them from Texas, and a president who will sign almost any bill that will reform entitlements. If Republicans hold on to their majorities, there is a chance to pass some entitlement reform over the next few years. Sure, I'm skeptical, too... maybe even cynical about government making itself smaller. But it's the best chance we have had in years to recover some of the ground that's been lost the last few years. And, as sick as I am of government that doesn't work, I'm even more sick of a populace that just throws up its hands and says, "they're all crooks," or there's nothing we can do about it.

    This country has had it when the people won't throw out the worst of the crooks and demand that what's left of them fix what's wrong.

  27. #117
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Government Shutdown

    I've got an idea for a shutdown that would actually do some good- - - - - -let's shut down the Border Patrol and ICE- - - - - - -

    IN CALIFORNIA!

    Build the wall(s) at the California state line to keep all the "immigrants" where they're loved and appreciated. Make getting into the rest of the country as tough as getting into Doris Day's bedroom used to be in a 1950's movie!
    Jerry
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