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Thread: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

  1. #1

    Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    I have a Mauser Argentino 1909 (DWM Berlin) with what appears to have all matching serial numbers which begins with the letter "L". It has 30-06 on the barrel. Was this gun originally a 30-06 or do you think everything was changed at some point? I inherited this gun and just trying to find out as much as I can about it.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Definitely not originally a 30-06 and likely not everything was changed. Originally chambered in 7.65 x 53, lots of these fine rifles were imported to the US in the early 1960s and bored out to fit the 30-06, but the barrel remained in it's .311 bore. Get it slugged to find out if this is the case. Back then you couldn't get the original Argentine ammo, now you can. If it slugs out to have the larger bore, you can find bullets and I'd reload them that way, provided it's safe.

    It's also possible it was rebarreled. If it's in military dress, though, probably not.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06

  3. #3

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    So likely everything was kept original except for that the inside of the barrel was modified for a 30-06 round? Is the 30-06 and 7.65 by 53 round virtually the same? I guess since you said it was harder to get the other ammo back then that it why it was changed to a 30-06. Anyway to get it back to the original specs or not worth it? I thought I read a bayonet was made for it, but I don't have one and don't know if originals are still available or not.

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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    No, you'd have to get a rebarrel for the shorter chamber or find an original barrel and have it installed, if this is possible. Even if you found a barrel, the numbers would no longer match.

    Sears (among others) imported a bunch of these and had the chambers bored out. These rifles are held to be among the finest if not THE finest military Mausers ever made, with classic blue that rivals the finest custom shop blue. In original condition, it's worth a whole lot more (~$1000) than if converted (~ $250). I've got a rifle that was custom built on a 1909 action, a 25-06. The action is a very desirable one.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06

  5. #5

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    So as far as collector's value, it's been hurt being a 30-06. But it still an excellent rifle and fun to shoot as a 30-06? Does it have a big recoil in the 30-06? I'm not the biggest person in the upper body. There is also a flip up sight on the barrel that goes up to the number 20. I guess this helps for long distance shooting.

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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Make that assesment for an average 1909 at about $500-600. A fine one would probably bring $1000 in the market.

    Yes, it has the recoil of a 30-06, which is not brutal but does have recoil. The zero on these rifles with military ammo is about 250 yards, so it will shoot high at shorter ranges. It won't be as accurate as the original, but probably good enough.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06

  7. #7

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    I appreciate all of your insight. It has been the best info I have received on his rifle. The serial number begins with an "L" which appears to date it to 1911. You want to see some pictures of it? I can take some tonight and send if you have email. I'd like to take the guns and have them appraised for insurance purposes, because I'm not going to sell them as they are one of the last things I have of my grandfather. I have 3 of his guns and he was likely the last one to pull the trigger over 25 years ago. It will nice to for me to be the next one to fire these guns. I'm looking forward to that, especially since I've never fired a rifle/shotgun before.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Big Al1's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    The 09, IMHO, is probably the finest '98 action ever made and the rifles are things of beauty!! I have one in original condition, with bayonet, and it's a great shooter. Like Gene said, if it's been rechambered it probably still has he .311 bore, so accuracy may suffer with factory ammo with .308 bullets. Would love to see some pictures. I can post them for you if you don't know how.

  9. #9

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    I'll try to post some pictures later tonight. What parts of the gun would you want to see to verify if it's been rechambered, etc?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Basically, if the bolt will close on a .30-06 round, it's definitely been modified. The 7.65 Argentine round is about 1/4" shorter than the -06, so it would be impossible to chamber a .30-06 round in an unmodified Argentine rifle. If you reload, it will be possible to get excellent accuracy from the rifle by simply installing a .311" expander button in the .30-06 resizing die and using the same .311" diameter bullets that are sold for loading .303 British or 7.65 Japanese ammo. The weight selection of those bullets isn't nearly as widespread as .308's, but the accuracy will be noticeably better. To be sure about the bore size, find a piece of split shot fishing sinker slightly larger than the bore size, tap it down the barrel from chamber to muzzle with a piece of hardwood dowel rod and a mallet, and measure the slug that comes out the other end. The smallest diameter will be about .303" and the biggest will be around .311" if you've got a 7.65 MM bore size.
    Jerry
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    Arnaud Amalric 1209 AD

  11. #11
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Nice rifle; as Gene said, along with the Peruvian 1909, Brazilian 1908 and Chilean 1912, they might be the best Mauser rifles ever made regarding materials, fit & finish.

    You have plenty of choices regarding what to do with it if you want to shoot it.

    - Use 30-06 ammo; maybe if lucky enough, bore is rather new and "tight" enough to engage the .308 bullets used in the 30-06. I've seen some local conversions of Peruvian 1909s and if bore was mint, they usually shoot pretty well. Don't know how many shots it'll stand before slowly loosing accuracy (Probably a few thousands), but might be worthwhile to try.

    - If money is not an issue and this gun has more sentimental than collector's value to you, finding a decent 1909 29" spare barrel still in 7.65x53mm. won't be hard; you'll need a gunsmith to do the job properly, including reinstalling & realigning the sights. Won't be 100% matching but still very close to the "as issued" condition.
    7.65 Mauser ammo is still available brand-new and non-corrosive from 2 good ammo makers: Prvi Partizan from Serbia (FMJ & SP) and Hornady (SP only and more expensive).

    Another barrel source can be Lothar Walther; they make brand-new barrels for Mauser 98-style long military rifles in assorted calibers; will also need a qualified gunsmith to do the fitting job.

    - If you reload, buy .311-.313 bullets (Same size used in Enfields & Arisakas) and use them with 30-06 cases; will need some work in the case mouth to fit the oversize projectiles but that won't be an issue. You can even use cast lead bullets with or even without gas checks (Keeping them below 1,000 fps) to fire very mild charges @ short & mid ranges.

    Recoil in this rather long, old infantry rifles isn't prohibitive due to the barrel's length & overall weigh; any average-sized adult can easily withstand it, but since you're new at it, along with proper gun safety & rifle shooting instruction, using some kind of padding between the steel buttplate and your shoulder might be a good idea until you learn how to handle it.

    Original bayonets & scabbards for the Argentinian 1909 are readily available in ebay and other web sources for probably around $ 50. Will only fit these rifles, so be sure what you're buying.

    Good luck with your fine rifle. Would be a good idea to disassemble it and check for rust below the wood line and a proper cleaning & oiling.

  12. #12

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Mauser1.jpgMauser2.jpgMauser3.jpgMauser4.jpgMauser5.jpg

    I have attached 5 pictures of my Mauser 1909. I cropped the serial number except for the first letter which is "L". Will be posting a few more pictures shortly.

  13. #13

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Mauser6.jpgMauser7.jpgMauser8.jpgMauser9.jpgMauser10.jpg

    5 more pictures of the Mauser 1909. Again, I had to crop all of the pictures to reduce the pixels in order to post, and I cropped the serial numbers except for the "L". But all of the serial numbers match and you can see some kind of symbol on top of the barrel and a "marker's mark" on a couple part of the rifle. I don't know what that little markers mark symbol means though.

    Hope the pictures come out well enough.

  14. #14

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Mauser.jpg

    Last picture. Hope you enjoy them and can see them well enough. Give me some feedback if you want.

  15. #15
    Senior Member DanChamberlain's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    My "09" Argy is now a .35 Whelen. Lovely action.

    Dan
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain

  16. #16
    Senior Member Big Al1's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    You have a nice sporter. Looks like it has a little surface rust on the floor plate, rub with some oil and 0000 steelwool to clean that up.

  17. #17
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Typical sporterized Mauser. Sadly, a common practice in the '60s when they were dime-a-dozen even brand new, and they had little or none collector value.

    If you wish to return it to the original military configuration, you'll also need a complete stock & handguard set, including all the metal stock parts. Bolt handle has been bent down, so maybe at least a new bolt body will be needed too. Here's a link to some pics of how it originally looked:

    http://www.taringa.net/comunidades/f...user-1909.html

    Those parts are available in ebay, gunbroker.com, e-gunparts.com or Springfield Sporters. Won't increase the collector's value at all, but will at least return it to the factory configuration.
    Last edited by Antonio; 02-22-2012 at 03:34 PM.

  18. #18

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    I'll probably just leave my Mauser 1909 in its current configuration, since that is how my relative left it. I doubt he bought it in the original condition and then modified it himself, so he probably bought it already modified. I'm taking it today for inspection and to be cleaned.

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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Cool old sporter! If you don't hand load and the rifle has a .311 bore have somebody work up some custom loads for it. You'll be impressed and make grandpa proud. I'm having a 6.5-06 sporter built on an Arg action. I can't wait til it's done. I piece like that should stay an hir loom.

  20. #20

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    It's interesting to here everyone say do this or that, even though I have no clue what you mean. But it's fun to read. I'm a rookie to all of this, so most of this is over my head. But I'm willing to listen and learn. I don't know how to tell if it has a .311 bore.

    I took this Mauser, along with a couple of other guns (Winchester Model 1400 MKII 12 ga & according to Ruger a 1967 Ruger 10/22 Carbine), to a local gun shop for inspection and cleaning. The guy said the Mauser was a nice shooting gun but still can find them today and mine was probably worth around $150.00. He said it was
    probably a good thing that it was a 30.06 as the original ammo was difficult to find. He looked at the barrel and said it looked good and he pulled the trigger and said it sounded and felt good too. I don't know what all that means, but I left it with him to do his thing.

    I guess we all want to have a nice, collectible gun. But I'm not sure I'm too caught up in how much it's worth or telling people hey look at my gun and how much it's worth. I think it'll just be cool to have a nice, reliable gun that I can learn to shoot well and have some fun doing it.

    I like this forum and a couple of others. Let's people like me asking simple questions and get some cool answers, and it seems like no one is really upset about answering such simple questions from a rookie.

  21. #21
    Senior Member DoctorWho's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    I got news for that guy, the day of the snazzy pristine Mauser 98K for $150- $250 is long gone !!!!

    Try and even find a nice Mauser at a gun show, lots of high priced trash.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996

  22. #22
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    You can still find 24/47 and 48 Yugos in that price range. They were locked behind the "Iron Curtain" for half a century but now are on the market much as the old K98s of WWII were back in the 50s and 60s. And some of these are excellent specimens. I bought 4 of them. Two have been sporterized and one more is on the list to be. The fourth will be kept original Mil Spec.
    Last edited by snake284; 02-23-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member DanChamberlain's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    The 09 Argy was considered by many of the old time custom gun makers to be the high-water mark of the "pre-war" era Mausers. Personally, I think the Venezuelans were probably the prettiest, but the Argys were the slickest. I don't believe you can find an 09 Argy for $200 and probably not even the action for that price.

    Dan
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain

  24. #24

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    I see 3 or 4 places on my Mauser which bare a serial number, which all match and start with the letter "L". And according to some others and what I've found online, it seems like this corresponds to it being made around 1911. Does this mean basically everything on the gun is from 1911 but the barrel has been modified for a 30-06 round? Could it be the original barrel but was modified for the 30-06?

    From one or two of my pictures that I posted, you can see some kind of proof mark on the gun, in a couple of places and some kind of crest/shield on top of the gun. What does all of that mean?

    I didn't know where my original post would lead, and all of this has been great learning for me. I love reading all of your opinions and thoughts about this gun, and look forward to learning and hearing more. I hope all of you don't mind all of my questions.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Big Al1's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Basically, all the metal is original except for the chambering, and the stock. It is not in it's military configuration. That stock looks like one of the many aftermarket stocks that were available in the 50's-70's from stock makers like Fajen, Bishop, and Herters.
    Since the 7.65x53 was not available back then, it was an easy task to remove the barrel and run a 30-06 reamer to enlarge the chamber for the more popular round. The stock makers name may be on the butt plate or grip cap.

  26. #26
    Senior Member snake284's Avatar
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Quote by newgunowner:

    "I hope all of you don't mind all of my questions."

    Heck no man, bring em on. That's what makes a forum interesting.

    This is a GREAT Thread IMHO!!!
    Last edited by snake284; 02-28-2012 at 06:24 PM.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.

  27. #27

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    When I go back to pick up the gun, I'll probably buy some 30-06 ammo for it. Any recommendations for brands, grain size, etc? Hopefully will be able to take it out in a few weeks to shoot some. Do any of you buy ammo online or just in a local store? Better prices? Trying to figure out a good price for a box of 30-06 cartridges.

    How many rounds does this rifle hold at a time? What kind of accuracy/range does a re-chambered Mauser 1909 to 30-06 have at various yardages? assuming of course the person using the gun knows how to shoot.

    I just saw 2 deer run beside my house. Too bad I didn't have to gun, but I live in the city (rural area, but still city limits) so I guess I would have had to let it go anyway. haha!!

  28. #28
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    First I think your lucky, you inherited a .22. The Ruger 10/22 is a fun gun to shoot and they're cheap to shoot. Find a local gun range and talk to the folks that run it I'm sure they will be willing to help and teach you. Second go back to "Teach's" post he had a lot of good advise. A 30-06 shoots a .308 diameter bullet. The Arg shot a 7.65 milimeter bullet, that equates .311. Because the 30-06 bullet (.308) is smaller than the .311 bullet you can shoot it out of your rifle. The bullet doesn't fit the barrel as well so the rifling (the twisting lines in the barrel) will not hold it correctly and it will not be as accurate as it could be. That's why folks are suggesting you have someone handload .311 bullets in a 30-06 case. Handload? Make your own cartridges. A cartridge is the brass (case), primer, powder and bullet all put together.

    Don't worry about all that now take your 10/22 to the range and have some fun! There's a lot to learn and a lot of good folks there at the range that will help you learn it!

  29. #29
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    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    It holds 4 or 5 rounds in the magazine. The sights are what they are, and are not calibrated to the 06. I like 150 grain bullets for the 06. It probably won't be especially accurate being oversized, but you never know. You should load the rifle from the magazine, not drop a round in the chamber.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06

  30. #30

    Re: Mauser Argentino 1909 30-06

    Is it difficult to add a scope to this rifle? Would you do so and if so what kind?

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