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Thread: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

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    Senior Member bruchi's Avatar
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    MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    Guy I know that has taken every rifle course, "Rifles Only", Blackhawk" and a host of others, at least twice each, yeah, he is loaded with lots of free time in his hands and very neat toy tells me that MRAD scopes are the "thing", the only ones one ought to use, what is the difference, how they work what is the benefit if any?

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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    "MRAD", I assume is the new mall ninja term for milliradian, or simply a scope with some form of mil-dot inspired reticle.

    For a long time, mil-dot scopes retained the standard, run-of-the-mill hunting rifle adjustments - -usually quarter MOA clicks (most of them still do). The distance between two consecutive mil-dots is 3.6 MOA = 3.6 inches at 100 yards = 36 inches at 1000 yards. If you want to use your mil dots for correcting your shot, the math can get a little tough - - one mil equals 14 clicks on a quarter MOA adjustment scale; half a mil equals seven clicks; a quarter mil equals. . .three and a half clicks - I DON'T HAVE HALF-CLICKS!!!; an eighth mil equals - YEAAAAARRRRRRGHHHH!!!

    The new Leupold MK5 adjustment knobs (and I'm sure others) are set up to roll with clicks that equal 1/10th of a mil. While this is not as fine an adjustment as the old quarter minute mechanisms (.36 MOA versus .25 MOA), it's a lot easier for a math-challenged, sleep-deprived operator to connect on the fly. Coupled with the more updated versions of the mil reticle (like Leupold's TMR), it can make for a precise and speedy system.
    WWJMBD?

    Ok, so .277 is the number of The Beast. This makes The Beast. . .what. . .a chihuahua?

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    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    Easier to describe it on the phone.
    For most people without a Military or LEO background with optics, MOA is usually easier.
    One is not BETTER than the other.
    MOA is a finer subtension, and it is my preferred way to reticle range and do distance shooting.
    307-257-7431
    Quote Originally Posted by bruchi View Post
    Guy I know that has taken every rifle course, "Rifles Only", Blackhawk" and a host of others, at least twice each, yeah, he is loaded with lots of free time in his hands and very neat toy tells me that MRAD scopes are the "thing", the only ones one ought to use, what is the difference, how they work what is the benefit if any?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"

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    Senior Member knitepoet's Avatar
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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernie Bishop View Post
    Easier to describe it on the phone.
    Probably rather pricey to call from PR
    When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. It is only difficult for others.

    It is the same when you are STUPID.

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    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    Oops, didn't realize that.
    Quote Originally Posted by knitepoet View Post
    Probably rather pricey to call from PR
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"

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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    This might help:

    Quote Originally Posted by eurooptic.com
    MRAD Subtensions
    The EBR-1 MRAD reticle is based on the milliradian, or mrad
    for short. Mrad unit of arc measurements are based on the
    radian. A radian is the angle subtended at the center of a circle
    by an arc that is equal in length to the radius of the circle.
    There are 6.283 radians in a circle and 1000 milliradians in a
    radian for a total of 6283 milliradians (mrads) in a circle. An
    mrad will subtend 3.6 inches at a distance of 100 yards. Most
    riflescopes using mrad adjustments will use .1 mrad clicks
    which subtend .36 inches at 100 yards.
    listed spec.
    http://www.eurooptic.com/PDF/viper-p...cle-manual.pdf

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    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    1 MOA subtends 1.047 inches per 100 yards
    versus 1 MIL is 3.6 inches per 100 yards.
    Think of both systems as a yardstick (both the same length).
    One yardstick has measurements that does not have as many lines (more coarse) as the other one.
    One may be easier to use depending on what it is.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"

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    Senior Member bruchi's Avatar
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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    What I am garnering here is that in an MOA scope the adjustments are in fractions of an inch, be it 1/4, 4 clicks to move the POI 1" at 100 yards and so on, on a 1/8 MOA scope you would need 8 clicks to accomplish the same.

    So are the MRAD scopes just the same but simply one where to get that 1 inch POI adjustment at 100 yards you need 10 clicks, if so why not just call it a 1/10 MOA scope.

    Guy that explained it to me did a pretty poor job but the gist that I got was that on an MRAD scope somehow the adjustments either remained the same at all distances or where easier to figure out when the distances varied from the basic 100 yards, to me be it 4 clicks, 8 clicks, 10 clicks per MOA, they are all equally simple to figure so for the confusion on the MRAD deal!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ernie Bishop's Avatar
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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    IF the reticle of the scope is in the First Focal Plane (FFP), then either a MOA, MIL, or Ballistic Reticle would remain the same subtension (distance between the lines or dots) when the magnification is changed.
    The turret adjustments are the same regardless of the reticle type or where the reticle is placed in the scope.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"

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    Re: MRAD and MOA scope adjustments, please educate me

    Quote Originally Posted by bruchi View Post

    So are the MRAD scopes just the same but simply one where to get that 1 inch POI adjustment at 100 yards you need 10 clicks, if so why not just call it a 1/10 MOA scope.
    Nope. A mil is an angular unit of measurement that opens up to 3.6 inches at 100 yards. A single click on an 1/10 mil adjustment turret will move your point of impact 0.36 inches at that distance. Ten clicks will move you the entire mil - or 3.6 inches at 100 yards.

    A quarter MOA scope will move your point of impact 0.25 inches at 100 yards.

    An MOA scope is going to be easier to use when thinking in terms of inches at various multiples of hundreds of yards - four clicks to the inch at 100 yards, two clicks to the inch at 200 yards, etc... If you tend to sight in on grid targets, it's easier still.

    A mil scope with a set of mil-compatible adjustment knobs is going to be easier to work with in a field setting. It allows you to almost totally purge MOAs from your brain and think almost completely in terms of mils. At whatever distance you're shooting at, if your hit is half a mil low, you come up five clicks on the elevation knob.

    Basically, the 1/10 mil adjustment knob system breaks the mil reticle down into fractions most people will have an easier time with. The math is simply easier:

    For the scope with a mil reticle and quarter MOA knobs:

    Quarter mil= 3.5 clicks (gonna have to round up or down)
    Half mil = seven clicks
    3/4 mil = 10.5 clicks (gonna have to round some more)
    One mil = 14 clicks
    Two mils = 28 clicks
    Three mils = 42 clicks

    Versus the mil scope with 1/10th mil clicks
    Quarter mil = 2.5 clicks (gonna have to round)
    Half mil = 5 clicks
    3/4 mil = 7.5 clicks (gonna have to round)One mil= 10 clicks
    Two mils = 20 clicks
    Three mils= 30 clicks

    So let's say your first round is off by four and a half mils. Which is going to make it easier to figure out how to bag the terrorist without taking your eyes off the scope: multiplying 4.5x14 and coming up with 63 clicks to correct the shot or multiplying 4.5x10 and coming up with 45 clicks to correct the shot? Working in a base-10 system is something even I can do without resorting to my fingers and toes, or scratch paper.
    WWJMBD?

    Ok, so .277 is the number of The Beast. This makes The Beast. . .what. . .a chihuahua?

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