Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,492

    Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    This one was caught on a game camera near the Mark Twain National Forest not far from Poplar Bluff, right close to where Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee and Kentucky all come togather on the Mississippi River. It's most probably a young male originating in the Black Hills of South Dakota. As I've mentioned before, what we're seeing here is one of the very basic rules of wildlife biology taking place: "A wildlife population will expand to fill an empty habitat to the maximum numbers that the land will support". As the whitetail and feral hog numbers increase, so will the major predator of these animals increase. The big cats in this case! Bring 'em on

  2. #2

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    "Obviously that must be a picture of a raccoon, distorted by swamp gas and reflection from the moon, as it cannot be a cougar. Those don't exist in Missouri."

    Possible quote from a Fish and Game official, or at least pretty close to what was said about the film footage of a cougar outside a house in Bristol Tennessee several years ago. It is getting harder and harder to deny that those populations are expanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirGeorgeKillian View Post
    I come here for man guidance and you want to talk about feathers?
    To answer your question, I'd take a Buffco. He will keep you plenty warm, and could probably help carry gear.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    God's country
    Posts
    3,901

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Yeah, they're in complete denial here too. With the proliferation of these trail cams I expect sooner or later their little bubble will be burst. I haven't given it much thought but I guess I'm mostly ambivalent about the idea of large cats roaming around. My girl spends a lot of time in the field and of course her stupid company has a no guns at work policy.
    In CA they attack joggers on a semi-regular basis. So I guess a few less Obama voters is okay in terms of that.
    Here in town there are occasional stories of a coyote snatching Fifi off a leash. And even bear issues as the neighborhoods expand Westward into the hills.
    Woodsrunner I have a question. My understanding is that they're mostly solitary except for the mating season. And stake out large territories. So, what effect do you think that a large predator would have on coyote and bobcat populations? And we have plenty of those.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dellrose TN
    Posts
    8,897

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    That's sort of like the "official" response of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency when Mary tried to send them some pictures of a pair or Red Wolves that we've seen several times on or near our place- - - -"There aren't any red wolves in Tennessee, but if you happen to see one, don't shoot it!" It seems that several breeding pairs they turned loose in the Smoky Mountains national park over in northeast Tennessee park didn't stay put!
    Jerry
    Last edited by Teach; 10-19-2012 at 12:31 AM.
    A man's rights rest in three boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box. Frederic Douglass 1867

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    God's country
    Posts
    3,901

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    That's sort of like the "official" response of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency when Mary tried to send them some pictures of a pair or Red Wolves that we've seen several times on or near our place- - - -"There aren't any red wolves in Tennessee, but if you happen to see one, don't shoot it!" It seems that several breeding pairs they turned loose in the Smoky Mountains national park over in northeast Tennessee park didn't stay put!
    Jerry
    They turned wolves loose in the Smokies?!?!? What? Didn't you guys already have a black bear kill and actually feed on a woman over there?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,492

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Razor....

    Just called an old classmate who is considered to be a big cat specialist (we're both forest/wildlife mgrs) and here's what his opinion-as well as mine-is:

    Panthers will have no measurable impact on coyotes or bobcats, and the feeding habits of all three are totally different. If the opportunity to nail either is offered to a panther, then the big cat will take it, but the cat is not going to spend any time hunting either of these. While the feeding habits of big cats will vary to some degree in different environments, here in the South and actually over most of the eastern USA the major food source is going to be Whitetail deer and feral hogs, and we have an ample supply of these. And roadkills of these can be included if the cat discovers any.

    In areas where the cat population is stabilized a male will have a territory roughly 75 miles by 75 miles, and a female about half that. Males tend to wander over this territory almost constantly, and will frequently move 50-75 miles in a 24-36 hour period. Females are a little more prone to not move so far so fast. As a general rule big cats aren't much of a threat to humans. There have been several recent cases out in California where people were attacked. I think most of these were either joggers or bike riders on mountain trails-even though close to large cities-and were moving away from the cats as a deer would. The cats, I think, have almost always been older animals, few if any teeth etc etc, and an opportunity that the cat couldn't turn down was presented. As a rule, and you can go to the bank with this one, big cats are going to avoid human contact if at all possible.

    What we're seeing at present-and for the last 30+ years-is a movement of the big cats from established populations in the western states to the eastward as the Whitetail/feral hog population has exploded east of the Great Plains states. So far virtually all of the cats moving eastward have been young males establishing a home territory or just exploring. (One young male originating close to Sturgis, SD has been tracked all the way to Connecticut!) There is pretty strong evidence, though not proven yet, that a very small breeding population is now established in both Missouri and Arkansas. It's a good example of one of the basic Laws of Wildlife Biology...."Nature Abhors A Vacuum"! If habitat conditions are right for a given species to move in and fill it, it WILL happen! DNA is the "evidence" of this with big cats.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dellrose TN
    Posts
    8,897

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorbacker View Post
    They turned wolves loose in the Smokies?!?!?
    Several years ago, there were some experiments with stocking a limited number of red wolves in the National Park as a population control measure for the whitetail deer herd, which was growing exponentially for lack of predators to control their numbers. These were not the same strain as the gray wolves reintroduced out west- - - -a red wolf is about the size of a medium-sized German Shepherd. Supposedly, the efforts failed, and a self-sustaining wolf population never developed. That's the official version!

    However- - - -over 200 miles southeast of the release site, both Mary and I have seen reddish-brown canines that don't fit the description of either feral dogs or coyotes, and something howls in the early evening that makes the local coyotes go totally quiet! We heard the howls one evening as we were watching turkeys go to roost. The coyotes were in good voice, and suddenly there's a low, mournful howl that shut the yotes down like a switch was flipped off! Several months later, we saw a litter of pups feeding on a deer carcass that didn't resemble yotes- - - -bigger-bodied and differently proportioned! The Possum Police claim we're seeing "coydogs", a crossbreed of a feral dog and a coyote, but we sort of doubt it!
    Jerry
    A man's rights rest in three boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box. Frederic Douglass 1867

  8. #8

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorbacker View Post
    What? Didn't you guys already have a black bear kill and actually feed on a woman over there?
    Yep, which is why when we take the little blonde people hiking I have a "friend" along for the ride. We ran into a pretty good sized bear hiking about a month ago. We were hiking a trail in the Bear Preserve got to within @ 40 yards of him. My friend was out and I was getting in front of everybody else as the bear was making a rapid exit stage right.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirGeorgeKillian View Post
    I come here for man guidance and you want to talk about feathers?
    To answer your question, I'd take a Buffco. He will keep you plenty warm, and could probably help carry gear.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,492

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    The Red Wolf is native to the Southeastern States, but should not be confused with the predator habits of the Western Wolves- Timber Wolves, I think. I have seen them in a Refuge environment, and these can be difficult to seperate from coyotes. A little bigger, maybe, and a little more redish in color, but similar to Yodle Dogs in appearance.

    The Red Wolf is no threat to humans either. Goats and sheep, maybe, but not to larger stock animals. I think the Red Wolf may be more docile and trusting than coyotes, too. If you read William Bartram's notes on wildlife-flora and fauna-of the Deep South just prior to the American Revolution, he talks about riding up, horseback, on females with young and dismounting and killing the young with sticks!

    Attempts have recently been made to re-introduce the Red Wolf to parts of its original range, and that's how/why those were released in the Smokies. Those Wolves originated from one of the last native populations that is over on coastal North Carolina around the Croatan Natl. Forest area, IIRC. A population has also been re-introduced in Fladah close to me on the St. Vincent Wildlife Refuge.

    Black Bears Can Be Dangerous ! As a rule, this animal isn't dangerous, but don't underestimate it! If I remember my facts correctly, within the last 17-18 years there have been 21 recorded Black Bear attacks in the eastern USA-maybe it's the whole USA, I don't remember. But.....19 of these attacks have resulted in death to the person attacked, one was permanently disabled to a wheel chair, and the other survivor was very badly mauled and lost an eye IIRC. I've known one person, a very close friend, and Teach knows him also, who was attacked by a Black Bear. He shot the bear, a 230-250lb female with a .40cal caplock, and broke it down in the right front shoulder. The bear attacked him and he emptied a 1911 into the bear hitting it 7 times in the forequarters. I had traded my friend the 1911 13 days earlier for an old original caplock made out of Hanging Dog Iron. Both of us lucked out on THAT trade!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dellrose TN
    Posts
    8,897

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Rich, I've still got some 250 grain hard cast .45 ACP handloads that I never was able to pass on to him. They're actually .45 Colt bullets in an ACP case, but they work well in my AMT Backup, and I'm sure they would make good bear medicine if he encounters another situation like that. One way or another, we need to figure out a way to get those delivered!
    Jerry
    A man's rights rest in three boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box. Frederic Douglass 1867

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,492

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    OK. Somehow I'll have to get up to your place and soon. I'm going up bear hunting with him before very long and also to pick up my corn. I'll be in contact.

  12. #12
    Senior Member wildgene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Cody, WY
    Posts
    875

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    ...someone seems to think cougars have an impact on other predators...

    http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/...he-bitterroot/

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,492

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Different situation here, wildgene. In this case the two predators, Cougars and Timber Wolves are in competition for the same prey species...Elk! Here in the east and South, the three mentioned predators are not in competition for the same prey species. While you will not get most to agree with what I say about what coyotes prey on, given human nature, these animals do not prey on Whitetail deer. Cougars do. There is no competition between the two as there is between Timber Wolves and Cougars in Montana.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orygun
    Posts
    274

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Have a cousin in SW Mo. that swears she has seen cougars on her farm. According to her, and this just HAS to be true, the Missouri Conservation Commission introduced cougars to help control the deer and turker populations. Haven't checked this out with the CC so, don't know if it's officially true.

    Around here, southern Orygun, when cougars come down to where the humans are, they're always young males. The older male drives them off, they're hungry, lonely and have just lost their momma. They have never hurt a human, yet. But, small dogs and cats are tasty. The people that live in the foothills/mountains routine lose livestock and that's more likely to be a female. The problem is getting worse and once the wolves move in in numbers, we can probably kiss the blacktail population goodbye. The calving rate for elk is going downhill too.

    Hawk

  15. #15
    Senior Member cpj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    MOzambique
    Posts
    16,321

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    The MDC has not released any toothy critters to control deer populations. Except of course, in coffee shop lore.

    With the advent of game cameras, the coon cops have nochoice now to admit there are big kitties roaming the State.
    That don't confront me, as long as I get my money by next Friday.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Fisheadgib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    crusted in sand
    Posts
    1,492

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    I don't know why it's such a big deal. On a Sunday afternoon at a popular bar in Destin you can find more cougars than you can shake a stick at.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffco View Post
    I would drop trou too, and because I am a caring person I would've given that young man a hug.

  17. #17
    Moderator Jayhawker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Smoky Valley, Kansas
    Posts
    7,677

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Quote Originally Posted by cpj View Post
    The MDC has not released any toothy critters to control deer populations. Except of course, in coffee shop lore.

    .
    Yep! Every time a previously un-seen critter shows up someone swears they were released by Fish & Game....

    Coyotes in Michigan for example...that nonsense has been repeated for 20 years....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,912

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisheadgib View Post
    I don't know why it's such a big deal. On a Sunday afternoon at a popular bar in Destin you can find more cougars than you can shake a stick at.
    Heck, they're seen here in Metropolitan Denver......just find the biggest CW club, and they're packed full of them! Word is they've been seen in the suburban hole-in-the-wall locations too!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Teach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Dellrose TN
    Posts
    8,897

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    There's plenty of 'em in Tennessee- - - - -one popular bar in Nashville is even known as "Menopause Hill"!
    Jerry
    A man's rights rest in three boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box. Frederic Douglass 1867

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,492

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Tell me where it is in Nashville, Jerry! Why I could take a pick-up load of fresh produce off my farm and run up there and be tradin' "cracked eggs" in nothing flat

  21. #21

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    I grew up in SE Missouri, in Bollinger County. This happened in the early '60's. A high school buddy and I were coon hunting on his family's farm. It was a thinly populated very rural area. It was just the two of us. My buddy had his dog. We had a coal oil lantern for walking light and a flashlight to spot any treed coons. We also had a .22 rifle and a 12 gauge shotgun. As we were walking through the woods, something began stalking us. We could hear it in the leaves behind us. When we would move we could hear it moving. When we would stop, it would stop. We would shine the flashlight in the direction we could hear it, but we never could see it. The move/stop process went on for 4 or 5 times. Whatever it was, my buddy's dog was obviously scared of it. He would only crouch at my buddy's feet with its tail tucked between it legs. When my buddy would push it out toward where we heard the noise, it would whine and cry and crawl back to its master. We then decided we better head back to his house. We reached his house without additional stops and without incident. To this day I cannot tell you what it was. I don't believe the dog would have been so frightened of a deer or another person or any small game. It didn't sound like small game. Recently a girl hit a black bear in that area with her car, but this happened 40 years ago.
    (Luke 11:21 KJV) When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
    (Luke 22:36 KJV) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

  22. #22
    Member FiveSeven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    somewhere out west
    Posts
    288

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Here in the "great" peoples republic of californistan we abide by the s cubes rule. I just keep hoping one eats Nancy....and 90% of the rest of bloody politicians for that matter.
    Only the optimists suggest that the future is uncertain. The pessimists have done the math.

  23. #23
    Member 10 AC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    between Memphis & Nashville
    Posts
    275

    Re: Another Cougar Sighted in Southeast Missouri

    Quote Originally Posted by Teach View Post
    There's plenty of 'em in Tennessee- - - - -one popular bar in Nashville is even known as "Menopause Hill"!
    Jerry
    Hey, Jerry we got one here in Jackson that is known as the "Menopause Lounge".
    Teach
    If you don't have a C&R FFL,you really need to consider getting one----it's a license to spend money, though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •