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Petition to Support "National School Shield" Program

knitepoetknitepoet Senior MemberPosts: 21,098 Senior Member
we petition the obama administration to:
Support and fully endorse the National Rifle Association's "National School Shield" Program.

We The People, ask the Obama administration to endorse and fully implement the National Rifle Association's National School Shield Program.

This program would give our children immediate protection from future tragedies Like the one that took place in Newtown, CT, by placing well trained armed guards to protect our children. We the people also wish to make clear that any further gun laws will do nothing to protect our children, but will only place more restrictions on the law abiding citizens' second amendment rights.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/support-and-fully-endorse-national-rifle-associations-national-school-shield-program/zDkJjQ12
It currently needs just over 6,100 more signatures to reach the 25,000 required for it to be considered
Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


Replies

  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    No, and damn the NRA for suggesting such an idiotic thing.

    The last thing we need is to dump a bunch more money into a program that is not needed. More children die every year from fires in schools than mass shootings. Should we now place firefighters in every hall? No. So what do we do? We do not stop teachers or other adults that are in the school to pick up a fire extinguisher and do what they can to fight the fire until someone better equipped shows up. Smell what Im stepping in?

    So no. I will not sign that petition.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,098 Senior Member
    Suit yourself
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    Smell what Im stepping in?

    I guess not.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    So Eturn....does this mean you are in favor of a self-sustained and allowed program for teachers to arm themselves to protect the children? I favor that, but also realize a lot of teachers are liberal pacifist and too many may not be so inclined to protect their flock with the sword.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    I like this idea in theory, but in reality it is just another bloated government program that will cost a fortune for the taxpayer and not prevent anything. Same as air marshals.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,098 Senior Member
    Eturn wrote: »
    I guess not.
    You're entitled to your opinion without MY judgement, and I EXPECT the same courtesy
    Also, if you care to pay attention, I didn't endorse OR belittle the idea. Just presented the information for folks to form their OWN opinion with
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    I am not all that excited over a new government program. I wholeheartedly support the idea that the NRA will have security experts come in at the school's request and give them a thorough and tailored consultation of that school's security needs free of charge. If that community wants to adopt the recommendations-- great! If not-- that is fine with me as well. The Feds screw up everything. The best thing they can do is to make/repeal laws so stuff like this can happen in communities around the country and stand the hell out of the way.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    While I gree with this sentiment, the reality of the situation is that politicians *might* enorse this solution. (have you ever seen a politician who did not like the idea of another government program?) If the program is too expensive it can always be modified or scrapped later AFTER people have accepted the mindset of having armed guards in the schools.

    To just blow this off may result in losing yet more gun rights. Remember that politicians tend to settle for a middle of the road solution so if we propose something totally reasonable (like armed teachers) while the extreme left clamors for massive gun bans, we are likely to end up with "moderate" gun bans/restrictions as a "compromise" measure.

    We need to push for some sort of armed presence in the schools as the ONLY acceptable measure. I think this is where the NRA is headed with this.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • EturnEturn Member Posts: 317 Member
    So Eturn....does this mean you are in favor of a self-sustained and allowed program for teachers to arm themselves to protect the children? I favor that, but also realize a lot of teachers are liberal pacifist and too many may not be so inclined to protect their flock with the sword.

    There are a great many different types of people in the public school system. Sure some may lean more one way than another. But Id suppose that depends on the type of state they live. I know a large number of former military folk who lean more toward the libertarian or lil R side than liberal. So yeah. I'd rather remove the unconstitutional laws that remove the individual's natural right to self defense based solely on where they are at the time.
    knitepoet wrote: »
    You're entitled to your opinion without MY judgement, and I EXPECT the same courtesy
    Also, if you care to pay attention, I didn't endorse OR belittle the idea. Just presented the information for folks to form their OWN opinion with

    Because you seem to have taken offense to my opinion on the matter I have to assume that you do endorse the idea. If you did not then you would not have posted what you did. I respect most people's opinions on things, until they call for more government.
    “Not everyone is willing to embrace liberty; liberty requires not just effort, but risk. Some people choose to delude themselves and see their chains as protective armor.”
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,160 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I am not all that excited over a new government program.

    But it's not new. Clinton put this into law, and Obama cut it.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    I don't necessarily see it as an armed guard thing either. There are ways to make kids safer just by where the exit and entry ways are, locations of fences and gates, and building procedures. There are all kinds of ways to do this and it depends on the needs and desires of each community. "Good guys with guns" is just one aspect of the whole thing-- not the entire solution. In any situation, lethal force should be an absolute last resort. I would rather some would be attacker get frustrated and not bother than have to shoot them-- to get to that point means quite a few other things have failed. We need to figure out how and why those things failed and try to fix them.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The high school where I taught for over 30 years had approximately 3,000 students. The building covered over 12 acres under the roof, NOT the campus. The school was built on 3 levels, one 2-story section, and a lower level with several drive-in doors for the vocational department where I taught. The "resource officer" area was at the center of the building. There were over 100 doors leading out of the building, and every one had to provide an exit by simply pushing a "panic bar" latch, by local fire codes. All an outsider needed to gain entry was for someone from the inside to put a wedge in the door to prevent the latch from engaging, or simply to push the bar and let a friend in. Drug pushers gained access to the building all the time that way.

    Now, some of you "experts" who have never set foot in a school as a teacher, and probably couldn't even be dragged in for a parent-teacher conference once a year- - - - -please tell me how to control access to an area like that! Even if I pushed the "panic button" in my classroom requesting armed help, it was a good 5-minute run for the cops to get there, and they were right on scene! Yes, I armed myself at times, rules be damned!
    Jerry
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I see this NRA proposal for what it is - just another political ploy to counter another silly liberal feel-good political ploy.

    I'm for local school boards seeking help from experts to tailor their own self-defense plans. The NRA can be very useful in that regard. All I want from the feds is to back off and let sensible people come up with sensible plans for their own locales, and to free up some of that wasted education funding to help pay for it.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,167 Senior Member
    I can't find it with all the new school shooting news on Google, but there was a school shooting at a school with an armed guard and metal detector. They shot the armed guard first....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Jerry-- I don't know squat about the school that you worked in, but some of those panic bar doors could have 10 second opening delays and alarms that go off when they open. The perimeter of the building could be fenced off to control where people entered the school grounds. They could have let you pack heat with their blessing-- the NRA could have provided the extra training. I am sure that there were at least a handful of fellow teachers that were willing to do that-- the key to that would be to keep it quite which teachers are and aren't armed-- it keeps them guessing and the only smart thing to do is assume that they are all armed.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    I can't find it with all the new school shooting news on Google, but there was a school shooting at a school with an armed guard and metal detector. They shot the armed guard first....
    I remember that. Putting people in "shoot me first" uniforms isn't that good of an idea.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Teachers armed with deep-cover weapons is the answer. Can you imagine how many false alarms a small group of determined students can trigger by pushing an alarmed panic bar, then running for cover? We had to remove all the fire alarm pull boxes for just that reason, and replace them with automatic smoke detectors every few feet. Then the little brats started setting fire to the trash cans in the hallways to trigger the fire alarms.
    Jerry
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,742 Senior Member
    Am I the only person who feels that that NRA is admitting guilt through proposing this School Shield Act? They SHOULD be spending their time and their members' money explaining why banning guns would not prevent these tragedies, and not affect the overall violent crime rate, instead of pushing for what will almost certainly end up being an over funded and poorly managed government program.

    What's next folks? Armed guards at my place of business and in my neighborhood? How long until they have the "right" to stop me and ask for identification at any whim?

    :tinfoil hat:
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    I can't find it with all the new school shooting news on Google, but there was a school shooting at a school with an armed guard and metal detector. They shot the armed guard first....

    This happened at the McNamara Building in Detroit back in 2001.....shootout took place at the screening station... it's a given that working a screening station is hazardous duty...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,167 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This happened at the McNamara Building in Detroit back in 2001.....shootout took place at the screening station... it's a given that working a screening station is hazardous duty...

    You will almost never be the first to fire when open carrying.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    The NRA had no other choice than to offer potential solutions. Everyone wants this "fixed" (even if there is no true fix). So far, the only other "fix" that seems to be out there has been to ban guns.

    Arming teachers with concealed carry IS the best solution, IMO. People that are alarmed because they don't trust an armed teacher are severely misguided. In my state, everyone in the building from the lunch ladies, janitors, on through to the principal needs to be fingerprinted and have a thorough background check-- with much stricter qualifications than everyday CCW holders need. If we can't trust these people with a firearm, what the hell business do we have trusting them around our children?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Jerry-- I don't know squat about the school that you worked in, but some of those panic bar doors could have 10 second opening delays and alarms that go off when they open. The perimeter of the building could be fenced off to control where people entered the school grounds. They could have let you pack heat with their blessing-- the NRA could have provided the extra training. I am sure that there were at least a handful of fellow teachers that were willing to do that-- the key to that would be to keep it quite which teachers are and aren't armed-- it keeps them guessing and the only smart thing to do is assume that they are all armed.

    There are lots of security features that can be installed...in/out card readers at the doors, revolving doors incorporated in in the card reader system not only stop piggy backing, but trap those trying to make unauthorized entry, fence-lines (minumum 10 foot) with razor tape on top....motion activated cameras - there are a TON of things that can be done to secure a structure...I can turn ANY building into fortress....it only takes money.

    Interestingly however, one of the issues that I encountered after 2001 was that everyone wanted "to be safe", but no one wanted it badly enough to be overly inconvenienced...actually what they wanted was the "illusion of safety". The result was a security system that was as full of holes as a hunk of Swiss cheese.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This happened at the McNamara Building in Detroit back in 2001.....shootout took place at the screening station... it's a given that working a screening station is hazardous duty...
    That same building where the employees walk in and out of with no screening at all? I have dealt with some of the idiots that work there and they are screening ME?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    That same building where the employees walk in and out of with no screening at all? I have dealt with some of the idiots that work there and they are screening ME?

    You'd have to know the guys behind the "security" to REALLY appreciate it ....put Homeland Security (hates GSA), GSA (hates Homeland Security), and the AFGE (hates EVERYONE that doesn't share their agenda) on a problem and the result is as screwed up as a soup sandwich.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,160 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    You'd have to know the guys behind the "security" to REALLY appreciate it ....put Homeland Security (hates GSA), GSA (hates Homeland Security), and the AFGE (hates EVERYONE that doesn't share their agenda) on a problem and the result is as screwed up as a soup sandwich.....

    Most security is theater. You know the saying- Locks only keep honest people out.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    I can't find it with all the new school shooting news on Google, but there was a school shooting at a school with an armed guard and metal detector. They shot the armed guard first....

    I think this was the Red Lake, Minnesota shooting. The kid's grandfather was a LEO. He killed the grandfather, took his squad car, weapons, and vest. Drove to the school and shot the guard at the entrance.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


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