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Gun show loophole

Just watched a video via the link at the bottom of the page and in the text the gun show loophole was mentioned and background checks, explain why closing this where background checks cant be done (correct me if im wrong) what would be the problem of buying a gun on saturday and collecting a couple of days later from your local dealer once shipped, is a bad idea
i dont know what the time limit is in the us but on my side of the pond firearms in the post must be sent to another dealer maximum transport time is 48 hrs any longer and all hell breaks loose

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/message-president-obama-about-your-petition-reducing-gun-violence
that an unbalanced man shouldn't be able to get his hands on a military-style assault rifle so easily; that in this age of technology, we should be able to check someone's criminal records before he or she can check out at a gun show
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Replies

  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    I don't really see a problem with a 10 day waiting period.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Are you talking about a "waiting period" or mandatory background checks, or both? Some states have a waiting period....some states have MBC. The problem with some state's MBC is the FFL's discrection to impose a fee for their services.....some see fit to gouge you for it, there is no mandated set rate.....thereby increasing the costs. The other problem we have is the interference with free enterprise. Our problem is not the ease of procurement.....it's the will of the loony that uses it for ill means. A man may as well buy a bat from the sporting goods section and go play t-ball with a bunch of kid's heads.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    I don't really see a problem with a 10 day waiting period.

    :that:
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    The "gun show loophole" refers to private sellers....disallow selling w/o a background check wouldn't curb much......maybe 2%.....out of millions in a populace, there are a few that are "mentally ill", but have not been legally declared so.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    I don't really see a problem with a 10 day waiting period.

    Because you've had to live with this requirement for almost 20 years. You've accepted it as "normal". I bought my last gun at a yard sale. I do not know why a gun should be treated any different than say, a chainsaw.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    This is true but I have never needed a gun that same day. I can see someone being angry and going in and buying a gun in the heat of the moment or a suicide. Although they go and rent a gun for suicide nowadays. I just don't see this as a big deal.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    This is true but I have never needed a gun that same day. I can see someone being angry and going in and buying a gun in the heat of the moment or a suicide. Although they go and rent a gun for suicide nowadays. I just don't see this as a big deal.

    This would make sense for someone's first purchase. After you've bought gun #2, 3, 4, 5...etc the waiting period is pointless.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,249 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    This would make sense for someone's first purchase. After you've bought gun #2, 3, 4, 5...etc the waiting period is pointless.

    The way I've always thought of these stupid 10-day "cooling off" waiting periods on firearms - ten days to think it over just gives more time to get REALLY creative. . .concrete shoes, cynanide, TNT, neckties, contracts, high voltage. . .
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,396 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    This is true but I have never needed a gun. I just don't see this as a big deal.
    Thats the relevant point. Just because you don't need a XXX has nothing to do with it. Most states have instant check and are doing just dandy. There are background checks at gun shows, the dealers are FFl holders, they are on the cell phone all of the time. As to a private sale, well, at least in PA if its a long gun then you just buy and sell, gunshow, newspaper, word of mouth whatever, doing it at a gunshow is no different.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Because you've had to live with this requirement for almost 20 years. You've accepted it as "normal". I bought my last gun at a yard sale. I do not know why a gun should be treated any different than say, a chainsaw.

    Exactly. I could MAYBE understand a three day wait for your FIRST firearm but anything after that is just stupid and pointless.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • JLDickmonJLDickmon Senior Member Posts: 1,726 Senior Member
    I thought you had to fill out a 4473 for everything?
    Never laugh at your wife's choices.
    You are one of them.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Private sales are not, nor should they be regulated. Here in the free state of Tennessee, I can buy or sell any kind of legal firearm in a one-on-one transaction with no paperwork whatsoever. Now, if it's a shotgun cut down to pocket size, or a full auto, etc., the same rules apply as anywhere else. The only time a 4473 gets in the mix is if a licenced dealer is involved. Look in the classified section of the newspaper, make the deal, swap some cash for the gun. Problem solved! If that's a "loophole", I'm all for it! At gun shows, any licensed dealer who makes a sale must go through the same paper trail as if he were dealing from his storefront. The gun grabbers try to give the impression that dealers can make mass sales at shows with no paperwork- - - -typical liberal lies!
    Jerry
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    JLDickmon wrote: »
    I thought you had to fill out a 4473 for everything?

    No. Private sales are not federally controlled. Some states require an FFL for every firearm transfer.

    I live in Idaho and private sales are exactly that: PRIVATE.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    The problem with all of these 'incremental' changes in the law is that we are accepting measures that accomplish nothing, for the sake of getting the anti's to shut up and go away - and they don't ever go away for long. We never make them prove that any of these little BS restrictions have ever had any positive effect. They use straw-man arguments and bait-and-switch negotiating tactics to make emotional pleas to people who will ignore the facts and go along with whomever screeches the loudest.

    In no case that I can think of, ever, have we forced them to cite actual statistics that prove anything they are saying. At some point, we have to make these people prove that their plans have ever had any measurable effect on gun violence. We are letting them blow smoke up everybody's butts on every issue from saving the economy to gun control, and we are now one Supreme Court judge away from losing the Constitution.

    Personally, I believe that nothing will save us from the federal government, now, but for the states to refuse to obey anything that is not in the Constitution - and who knows how that will end up.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,143 Senior Member
    The "Gun Show Loophole" is pure BS. Every dealer at a gunshow has to follow the same laws and regulations as a brick and mortar dealer in the same area.

    Now, the personal, face-to-face sales at a gunshow are the same as a sale on Armslist, the newspaper classified ads, bulletin boards, etc... It is a private sale of private personal property. If the feds put regulations on the transfer of legal personal property, it will also put regulations on inheriting Grandpa's old shotgun. You want the feds involved in you giving your wife an AR for Christmas? Giving your son his first .22 on his birthday?

    Regulating personal sales is defacto gun registration. It is Federal records of who HAD the gun, and who HAS it now. Guys in California- how did that registration of "Assault Weapons" work out for you? Did it lead to confiscation?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The battles at Lexington and Concord were fought over attempts to confiscate arms. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Liberals take note!
    Jerry
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,143 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    I don't really see a problem with a 10 day waiting period.

    Fine. You can have one. Don't tell me I have to have one, though.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,581 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    The way I've always thought of these stupid 10-day "cooling off" waiting periods on firearms - ten days to think it over just gives more time to get REALLY creative. . .concrete shoes, cynanide, TNT, neckties, contracts, high voltage. . .

    Everybody knows that guns are the best tool made that is easy to acquire and use for killing from a distance in a "detached" manner without getting your hands full of blood and why this nuts choose them so the Mcgyver/James Bond defense strategy IMO only makes us look stupid and without a leg to stand on when attempting to defend our right.

    The problem we have to make clear is that quite unstable folks, even without the Mcgyver/James Bond gene do a lot of damage are loose out there and that dealing with that will be of more aid than banning the remote control explosive sandals can do.
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,143 Senior Member
    The Waiting period killed the first victim in this last douche's rampage. He tried to buy a gun, and abandoned that plan when the waiting period got in his way. So he went and killed his mom to get guns.

    The guy decided to trade his life. When he made his plan to kill, no further punishment or laws would have stopped it. Think about it- he made the decision to either die or spend life in prison. We can't kill him any harder, or extend his life to give him more years in prison. So... whats going to stop him from from killing another to get tools to kill.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    Buford wrote: »
    I don't really see a problem with a 10 day waiting period.

    At the risk of sounding rude; Oh Baloney! It is much more fun to walk into a gun shop and walk out with a new gun. Here we have to wait until the instant background is completed. Usually takes about ten minutes (now about three hours!). Then they hand you the gun and you walk out. If you have a record you cannot buy a gun. What diff does the ten days make? Oh, I know; a guy cannot buy a gun in a fit of rage and then go home and shoot his spouse. Nor can a spouse buy a gun if her ex had been threatening her. The ten days she has to wait may become her death sentence. It happens.

    Existing laws are enough.
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    The Waiting period killed the first victim in this last douche's rampage. He tried to buy a gun, and abandoned that plan when the waiting period got in his way. So he went and killed his mom to get guns.

    The guy decided to trade his life. When he made his plan to kill, no further punishment or laws would have stopped it. Think about it- he made the decision to either die or spend life in prison. We can't kill him any harder, or extend his life to give him more years in prison. So... whats going to stop him from from killing another to get tools to kill.

    Anti-guns laws have never had an effect upon crime.
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    bruchi wrote: »
    Everybody knows that guns are the best tool made that is easy to acquire and use for killing from a distance in a "detached" manner without getting your hands full of blood and why this nuts choose them so the Mcgyver/James Bond defense strategy IMO only makes us look stupid and without a leg to stand on when attempting to defend our right.

    The problem we have to make clear is that quite unstable folks, even without the Mcgyver/James Bond gene do a lot of damage are loose out there and that dealing with that will be of more aid than banning the remote control explosive sandals can do.

    ah say again?
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    It's actually probably a lot more than that. Private sales are very common and there are thriving gun selling/trading boards in most states that allow private sales. It's a great way to try something for a while and if you don't care for it sell it or trade it for something else. Since you paid a used price you rarely lose much of anything on the transaction. If an FFL and background check were required it would significantly crack down on this kind of transaction because the $35-40 fee for every sale or trade would really hurt this kind of market (but make lots of money for gun dealers).

    Luckily I think it would be a stretch constitutionally for the feds to try and regulate private sales that do not cross state borders.

    Here you can bring your gun to a gunshow and sell it. No questions asked. Dealers have to order and charge for a background investigation.
  • stepmacstepmac Member Posts: 172 Member
    The "gun show loophole" refers to private sellers....disallow selling w/o a background check wouldn't curb much......maybe 2%.....out of millions in a populace, there are a few that are "mentally ill", but have not been legally declared so.

    People at guns shows don't sell their guns to the wacko's. No need to.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Thats the relevant point. Just because you don't need a XXX has nothing to do with it. Most states have instant check and are doing just dandy. There are background checks at gun shows, the dealers are FFl holders, they are on the cell phone all of the time. As to a private sale, well, at least in PA if its a long gun then you just buy and sell, gunshow, newspaper, word of mouth whatever, doing it at a gunshow is no different.

    Agreed. Here in Texas, as in many CHL states, if you have a valid CHL, you skip the background check too.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    stepmac wrote: »
    Dealers have to order and charge for a background investigation.
    Really? Does the FFL holder requesting a BGC get charged for the request?
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    stepmac wrote: »
    People at guns shows don't sell their guns to the wacko's. No need to.

    Pure speculation......how do they know a person's intent or mental status unless they are obviously stupid in their behavior/speech/actions?
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Guys in California- how did that registration of "Assault Weapons" work out for you? Did it lead to confiscation?

    No.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Agreed. Here in Texas, as in many CHL states, if you have a valid CHL, you skip the background check too.

    Is that not a permit from the government to carry a concealed firearm?
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    From the state government it is.
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
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