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Will we hit the fiscal cliff or has a deal been

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
In the works and what we are seeing is so much political posturing/grandstanding? Is Congress/WH trying to buffalo us into thunking they have been working so hard and giving up part of their holidays off-time because they serve the American people?

By deal, I mean both sides already know their bottom line, but have resigned themselves to sign something to avert the crisis. If nothing else they can just kick the can down the road for a couple more months. This should have been dealt with months ago, they knew it was coming, but were too busy trying to get reelected to do anything.

Both sides are guilty of taking a meandering route to fix our budget deficit. They love spending our taxpayer money.

Your thoughts?
It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    The talk here in the WMA is that we'll likely "dangle" over the cliff for a few weeks, then they'll work out some deal to avoid the meltdown. Lots of non-critical govt workers will likely be furloughed for that time, and some contracts might be put on hold.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    We are going over the cliff, just as Obama has planned all along. It's a win/win for him, as long as the media stays behind his agenda. He can blame the Republicans for going off the cliff, get his tax hikes and defense cuts, and continue to stifle small business and break the economy. Then, when people start to squeal, he will charge in to the rescue, and give low income earners a tax cut and pretend to rescue the Defense Dept. - all while demonizing the opposition, mercilessly.

    There is almost nothing a corrupt president can't get away with, if the media isn't doing it's watchdog role - and this one is in the bag for the socialist takeover that is happening right under our noses.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,672 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    ............There is almost nothing a corrupt president can't get away with, if the media isn't doing it's watchdog role - and this one is in the bag for the socialist takeover that is happening right under our noses.
    I guess a few liberals will be happy that the country goes to sh--!
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,403 Senior Member
    The biggest roadblock to the deal is that Obama wants tax hikes on the rich now, and spending cuts later in the year. That's the :cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss: "compromise" the Socialist Democrats are pushing for and won't vote for anything else. And the Prez is pushing hard for the same. They have no intention of cutting spending in any meaningful way; they are as addicted to spending other people's money as a heroin addict is addicted to heroin. That "raise taxes now-cut the budget later" has been tried twice before. The tax hikes went in, but the spending cuts never materialized. If the Republicans cave in and do it YET AGAIN, we will be headed for where Greece is now.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The only meaningful cuts need to happen between the chin and collarbone on a bunch of free-spending congress-critters on both sides of the aisle! The French had the right idea a few years ago!
    Jerry
  • SideOfBaconSideOfBacon Member Posts: 111 Member
    bisley wrote: »
    We are going over the cliff, just as Obama has planned all along. It's a win/win for him, as long as the media stays behind his agenda. He can blame the Republicans for going off the cliff, get his tax hikes and defense cuts, and continue to stifle small business and break the economy. Then, when people start to squeal, he will charge in to the rescue, and give low income earners a tax cut and pretend to rescue the Defense Dept. - all while demonizing the opposition, mercilessly.

    There is almost nothing a corrupt president can't get away with, if the media isn't doing it's watchdog role - and this one is in the bag for the socialist takeover that is happening right under our noses.

    Yeah, I've thought all along he intends to go over the cliff and start from a position of "what are you willing to give up to get back?"
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    So in the end, they will compromise or delay any action to reduce our deficit which was the entire purpose of the mandatory cuts. This way they will retain the "W" era tax breaks and tax the rich without any spending cuts.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,720 Senior Member
    The whole reason it's a "cliff" or crisis is that all these automatic cuts + tax increases would actually do a lot to reduce the long term deficit. Problem is they'd also crater the economy similar to 1937. Anything done to avert the cliff will thus have a negative impact on our debt.
    I believe the cliff could be a good thing if, and only if, the increased revenue is not
    put to increased spending as Obama has already said he would do.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    I believe the cliff could be a good thing if, and only if, the increased revenue is not
    put to increased spending as Obama has already said he would do.

    The mandatory cuts (Sequestration) would gut our military and put our status as a Super Power in jeopardy to some extent. We do well because of our technological edge and our great men and women in uniform. We need to be/remain strong and project a strong worldwide presence.

    Why some would rather see us fall from a Super Power status into just another country is beyond me.

    God Bless America :usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,720 Senior Member
    I believe the Marines are going to 185,000 no matter
    what happens; cliff or ramp.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • steffen19ksteffen19k Member Posts: 255 Member
    The Government is not just only going to go over the cliff, The Government is going to SWAN DIVE over the cliff.

    Kiss America Good-Bye, and welcome our new Chinese Overlords with the usual Beer & Pizza Party.

    That's my two cents... make your own deductions.
    Here is everything I know about war: Someone wins, Someone loses, and nothing is ever the same again.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,101 Senior Member
    Obmummer is already spending the new revenue
    http://fox43.com/2012/12/28/president-orders-pay-hike-for-congress-federal-employees-v-p-joe-biden/
    President Orders Pay Hike for Congress, Federal Employees, V.P. Joe Biden
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • beartrackerbeartracker Senior Member Posts: 3,116 Senior Member
    Becoming and remaining a superpower/empire is not cheap and is currently bankrupting us. What exactly us it buying us?

    Military spending is not what is really the cause for bankrupting us, it is entitlement spending that consumes a much greater percentage of our GDP that needs to be cut back. Military spending and remaining a super power is not the sole reason nor the main reason we are broke. Further more we are not an empire. These talking points get real old. I know, hear comes more talking point arguments to support the talking point arguments just made. It is the same old tired song.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Becoming and remaining a superpower/empire is not cheap and is currently bankrupting us. What exactly us it buying us?

    Buying votes for bankrupt Democrat politicians is what has broken us, and you can't tax the rich enough to make a dent in that, without drastically reducing entitlement spending...which this president and the Democrat Senate will never do, despite whatever promises they will make in negotiations. Your party spends our taxes on any legislation that will buy them votes, or assistance to any business, special interest group, or foreign entity that will 'kick back' into their campaign coffers. There is not a single useful thing that those billions of borrowed dollars spent on the Democrat voting base has done to improve this country for the majority.

    Corruption and waste has been our downfall, and if you were capable of an honest evaluation of your party's actual accomplishments, you would hang your head in shame. I'll admit to being ashamed of the performance of many Republicans that I've voted for, through the years, but their culpability for our economic woes is about 1/10th of that due to the Democrat Party, and their failings are mostly the result of cowardice, not abject dishonesty or loyalty to left-wing ideologies.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I can remember wondering why all the city streets in Nashville around the housing projects got repaved so often. Later on, as I got a little more poltically savvy, it became obvious that it was nothing but blatant vote-buying, along with a multitude of other programs aimed directly at the inner-city crowd that kept the corrupt dems in office. What we're seeing on a national scale is just the same kind of vote-buying, on steroids! Feed the parasites, and reward the union thugs and other deep-pocket contributors so they can kick back part of the windfall to the campaign coffers. That's a hard combination to beat with honesty and fair play, maybe impossible by "normal" means.
    Jerry
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    It will probably be impossible by the next election, at this rate. It's starting to look like all the honest folk can do is band together and prepare their children for all the hard work of putting things back together, once we hit bottom. When the smoke clears from all those rampaging wards of the government looking for their missed meals, folks that know how to work and take care of themselves will be a valuable commodity.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Maybe not in the narrow definition of maintaining fully controlled colonies in foreign lands but we do maintain client states, prop up friendly puppet governments, maintain military bases all over the world, do a lot of "projecting power", and generally meddle in the affairs of many supposedly soverign nations.

    More good than harm comes from our presence around the world, by a long shot, so to speak. We used to be a beacon of hope for freedoom and still are to many nations.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,162 Senior Member
    Becoming and remaining a superpower/empire is not cheap and is currently bankrupting us. What exactly us it buying us?

    Not having someone else be the superpower.

    Nature abhors a vacuum. Someone will always be the dominant world power. If it aint us, who should it be?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    15786_479092168798896_402682019_n_zpsb0e8ba5d.jpg
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Bisley please name for me the top 5 recipients of us foreign aid. For bonus points speculate on our motivations for doing so and explain why you no longer support paying them.

    Where did that come from? Was I talking about foreign aid?

    Go ahead and make the point you want to argue. I'm not spending 30 minutes Googling for the info just so you can cherry-pick the one item out of it that you want to educate everyone on.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Maybe they need to get bombed tonight. It seemed to work at the Constitutional Convention...

    " In 1787, two days before they signed off on the Constitution, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention partied at a tavern. According to the bill preserved from the evening, they drank 54 bottles of Madeira, 60 bottles of claret, eight of whiskey, 22 of porter, eight of hard cider, 12 of beer and seven bowls of alcoholic punch."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanton-peele/alcohol-addiction-were-th_b_610598.html
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I just saw a quick video clip of Biden at the Senate, followed by a bunch of the dummycraps. Harry Reid looked like he had been sucking on a sour pickle- - - - -want to bet he's been told to shut up and get his people in line for a deal? It won't be a good one, I'm sure, but the uber-liberals are getting spanked right about now, It seems.
    Jerry
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Not having someone else be the superpower.

    Nature abhors a vacuum. Someone will always be the dominant world power. If it aint us, who should it be?

    Someone else who wants to be broke and hated?

    Seriously, I do not take such a rose glass tinted view of what our insane spending on power projection has bought us. We did just fine prior to WWII.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Everyone holding a post of governmanship should be fired....excommunicated, and hanged for abandoning their post in lieu of the holidays....Y'all didn't want God in Governement....then you don't get the time off. Do the job we elected you to do....anyone else have a problem with that?
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    You're right, you alluded to favors in return for kickbacks from "foreign entities" in one of your posts, but didn't specifically mention foreign aid. I read this early this morning right after waking up and jumped at what probably wasn't actually there. I guess I'm just used to any budget discussion with Republicans/conservatives to lead to foreign aid as the great budget evil. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

    I don't complain much about foreign aid, because the amounts spent on it are chicken feed, compared to the amounts wasted, at home, through corruption and incompetence. Some of the greatest hypocrisies in government do exist in how we dole out foreign aid, but both parties are guilty of that, and have been for decades. The 'foreign entities' I refer to are the billionaire commies like Soros, et al, who pump millions into influencing our elections through back-door methods that apparently cannot be proved, without a watchdog media to smoke them out.

    The great budget 'evils' are (to name but a few) the entitlements, federal assistance to individual states through bloated bureaucracies, and bail-outs, without which, the Democrat Party would have to compete for votes among the people who actually still work for a living and pay taxes.
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    Everyone holding a post of governmanship should be fired....excommunicated, and hanged for abandoning their post in lieu of the holidays....Y'all didn't want God in Governement....then you don't get the time off. Do the job we elected you to do....anyone else have a problem with that?

    Works for me. If the rest of us have to spend sleepless nights worrying about the future, so should they.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Here is an interview with John Boehner after the dust settled. Pretty interesting...
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578225620234902106.html
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Here is an interview with John Boehner after the dust settled. Pretty interesting...
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323482504578225620234902106.html

    I understand his logic, and I understand why he thinks he made the best deal he could get - he probably did. But, he's still looking at the whole thing from an inside the beltway mentality - it's still kicking the can on down the road. Economic hard times are coming, and everything he's doing is just more of what we've been seeing for a long time - Republicans trying to slow the decline of the economy, in hopes of having more leverage, some day.

    Personally, I'm ready to suck it up and take the hit, now, rather than delaying the bad stuff that will come, anyway. There is a majority out there that believes our economy will survive anything, and they will never believe anything else until it starts to bite them, personally. Doing the right thing is going to hurt...bad...but let's start getting it over with, while there are still enough good people to put it all back together.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,959 Senior Member
    I don't even know what it means to hit or go over the fiscal cliff. When I think about it, I have to wonder at what point does a $16+ trillion deficit turn into bankruptcy, and what it will mean to us? At what point do we determine we're broke? So far, we just keep over-spending and borrowing and raising taxes.

    I do believe, though, that if we don't curtail spending and get the government under control, we're headed for some really tough times. Maybe the money I've worked to save and invest over the years will be worth nothing, or maybe something else will happen. Maybe those who have lead an irresponsible and reckless lifestyle, borrowed way more than the will ever be able to repay, will benefit. Maybe there will be a food shortage and riots. I'm thinking that learning Chinese may not be such a bad thing to do. Maybe ammo will become the defacto currency. I really don't know.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Well, since listening to all of the economic intellectuals has helped us get where we are, and since the best of them are wrong as often as they are right, why can't we just do something logical, like stop spending money we don't have? There is no case I've ever heard of where an individual, business, or country has ever spent itself out of debt.

    We have a president who thinks spending isn't the problem.
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