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It was a 6.5cal kinda morning. (Caution! Autopsy Photos!)
My friend had an invite from a land owner for us to go out and shoot some deer. This is a small 150 acre piece of land, which is long and narrow. We got there early and split up in the sleeting rain and 30 degree temp to find a spot to sit. He went to one end and I went to the other end of the property. I was using my built XP-100 in .260 Remington and he was using my built 6.5-284 Win on a Remington 700 action.
The sleet and rain fell and the temp dropped as the light rose to reveal a soggy surrounding. Just after first light, I saw a nice 7 point come out of the brush into the sendaro. He was as wide as his ears but not very heavy. No matter, I was after a doe anyways. He bopped in and out of the brush for a few minutes until I stopped seeing him anymore. Then, a doe came out. Now we were talking!
Watched her a few minutes and waited for her to present a broadside shot. I was using a BOG Gear PSR tripod with the pistol, so tracking her was no worries. Finally, she turned sideways and moved her near foreleg forward. BAM! At approximately 100 yards, she took a 130gr Berger Hunting VLD tight in the near shoulder.
At the shot, she jumped straight in the air, gained her feet, and took off. As she was entering the brush, I saw her front end start to sag and knew she was about to plow into the ground. Gave her about 15 minutes and went to look for blood.
At the empact location, there was a huge tuft of hair on the ground and dig marks from her hooves. No blood. I knew the direction she'd gone and with the damp soil, she was easy to track. Got to where she'd entered the brush and still had no blood. 10 yards into the brush, there she was. Not a drop of blood from impact to about 2 feet to her final resting place. There, I found 1 drop.
Now, that kinda perplexed me. No blood. Either way, she only traveled 25 yards and only lived about 3 seconds after the shot. But still........wierd.
Autopsy Photos
Entrance to body:
Entrance to front lobe of right lung, just above heart:
Entrance to aorta under front lobe of right lung:
Exit through aorta and left front lobe of lungs:
Nicked 1 rib going in and centered 1 rib going out:
Exit under left shoulder:
Exit out left shoulder:
You can see that there isn't much damage to the internal organs, but that the bullet really began to open up on the back side of the deer. Maybe she just wasn't wide enough? Maybe the velocity wasn't high enough out of the pistol? The bullet didn't fail because the deer died quickly and in a short distance. But, the lack of trauma has me perplexed.
This is the second time I've seen a Berger 130gr 6.5cal bullet fail to expand a fragment as advertised. Interesting.............
Deer #2 to follow..............
The sleet and rain fell and the temp dropped as the light rose to reveal a soggy surrounding. Just after first light, I saw a nice 7 point come out of the brush into the sendaro. He was as wide as his ears but not very heavy. No matter, I was after a doe anyways. He bopped in and out of the brush for a few minutes until I stopped seeing him anymore. Then, a doe came out. Now we were talking!
Watched her a few minutes and waited for her to present a broadside shot. I was using a BOG Gear PSR tripod with the pistol, so tracking her was no worries. Finally, she turned sideways and moved her near foreleg forward. BAM! At approximately 100 yards, she took a 130gr Berger Hunting VLD tight in the near shoulder.
At the shot, she jumped straight in the air, gained her feet, and took off. As she was entering the brush, I saw her front end start to sag and knew she was about to plow into the ground. Gave her about 15 minutes and went to look for blood.
At the empact location, there was a huge tuft of hair on the ground and dig marks from her hooves. No blood. I knew the direction she'd gone and with the damp soil, she was easy to track. Got to where she'd entered the brush and still had no blood. 10 yards into the brush, there she was. Not a drop of blood from impact to about 2 feet to her final resting place. There, I found 1 drop.
Now, that kinda perplexed me. No blood. Either way, she only traveled 25 yards and only lived about 3 seconds after the shot. But still........wierd.
Autopsy Photos
Entrance to body:
Entrance to front lobe of right lung, just above heart:
Entrance to aorta under front lobe of right lung:
Exit through aorta and left front lobe of lungs:
Nicked 1 rib going in and centered 1 rib going out:
Exit under left shoulder:
Exit out left shoulder:
You can see that there isn't much damage to the internal organs, but that the bullet really began to open up on the back side of the deer. Maybe she just wasn't wide enough? Maybe the velocity wasn't high enough out of the pistol? The bullet didn't fail because the deer died quickly and in a short distance. But, the lack of trauma has me perplexed.
This is the second time I've seen a Berger 130gr 6.5cal bullet fail to expand a fragment as advertised. Interesting.............
Deer #2 to follow..............
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Replies
"The Un-Tactical"
Yep, no bullet failure there. Still it is odd when you think of the brief time frame the bullet was in the deer, to not open then suddenly in an instant open violently. I dunno, I've never used those bullets you and Ernie are so fond of. I use partitions and they don't act like that in similar sized deer.
Anyway the autopsy is always interesting and sometimes perplexing. To bad we rarely recover bullets from shots on game. Perhaps yours might have told the tale.
We set up at a fence corner where we could see 300 yards to the front and to the right down the fence roads. I sat behind him with the horns and he placed the rifle on my BOG Gear SSR tripod this time (for rifles). He was aiming down the fence in front of us but could swivel the SSR to the right as needed.
He'd never seen rattling done before. He didn't believe it would work. I told him they usually showed up between 5 to 15 minutes depending on how far away they were. So, I started my rattle/grunt/bleat sequence, waiting 5 minutes between each series. He was beginning to doubt me..........At the end of my third series and right at 15 minutes, I put my horns down and looked to my right. "Buck!"
We'd ranged bushes at 150/250 yards in both directions.
"To the right in the middle of the road."
My friend pivoted the tripod to the right.
"200 yards facing us. Hold center of his chest."
BAM!
At the shot, we heard the impact and the buck sagged in the front.......turned.......and staggared off into the brush. He only made it 30 yards.
My friends first buck.
I was ecstatic! He'd made a perfect shot using a borrowed 6.5-284 Winchester and 140gr A-Max handloads.
Autopsy Photos
Impact:
Entrance to sternum:
Bullet entered the Heart and passed through the length of the right lung:
Entrance to heart:
Exit to heart:
Good side:
Not so good side:
What was left of the right lung (top of photo):
Exit through diaphram and into liver:
Only bullet fragment I found (just inside abdomenal cavity):
Entrance to liver:
Bullet lodged in flank just in front of right hind quarter:
OUTSTANDING performance from the 140gr 6.5cal A-Max!!!! It penetrated, expanded, and caused a dramatic temporary cavity from 4-12". This blew the side of the heart out and shredded the left lung. Then, drove on through the liver, causing massive damage on it way. The rear of the bullet held together and continued to the flank through the stomach and intestines.
This is the performance I've come to know and love about the A-Max.
BUT..............the A-Max is a target bullet and should NOT be used for hunting! Riiiiiiiiiiight.
(Note the serious case of sarcasm.)
Pround of my friend.
Both with 6.5 130 grain Berger's.
FYI-Berger is trying to find out what is going on with the 6.5 130's. Not sure if ours are from the same lot or not.
"The Un-Tactical"
Jerry
Your antelope, my deer, and your friends antelope raise some questions as to that particular bullet's performance as expected.
Unfortunately, the two pigs I've shot with that bullet were too late in the evening and an autopsy was not conducted. They died, but I'd have liked to see the terminal performance.
At this point in time, I think the 140 A-Max is my go-to for the 6.5 cals. That one worked like a CHAMP!
The A-Max has it's limitations, as any bullet does. I know them and use it within it's bounds. Because of that, it's been stellar in every caliber I've used it. I love that round.
Hope to use my .280 Remington tomorrow with the 140gr Berger Hunting VLD bullets. Want to see how they perform in comparison to the 6.5 version.
Hope for good weather tomorrow afternoon!!!!!
Now, that bullet issue...I dunno man. I know I'm trampling on sacred ground here, but more than one person I've talked to outside of this forum has had issues with Berger on game. I can't recall which caliber/weights off the top of my head, but a guy at work has repeatedly accused them of merely rebranding their regular match bullet as "hunting" and selling it as such. Me? I have no clue. I have yet to shoot a Berger bullet at so much as paper, but I would love for someone to dissect one of each ("match" and "hunting" bullets in identical calibers/weights) with a saw to see if there's any outwardly obvious difference in construction.
First off, you center-punched the aorta (NICE shot, BTW!), which is the internal injury equivalent of letting go of the mouth of a balloon. The blood pressure inside that deer dropped to zero pretty much instantly, and the heart wouldn't be able to pump anything out of the body.
My little buck from October was pretty similar - took a .30 caliber Barnes 168 grainer broadside through the back third of the heart, staggered in a small circle, and was down in under ten seconds. He blew some blood out of his nose, but really very little leakage from the entrance or exit - just a quart or more sloshing around in the chest.
You know how when you open up the belly cavity during field dressing the guts tend to spring out at you slightly? This suggests "contents under pressure" from the outer musculature. Similarly, arteries and veins will be slightly inflated during normal operation. My theory is that when you blow a big hole through the pump, those stretched tissues will deflate, pushing their fluids toward that hole, causing a massive internal bleed. Skin, being stretchy, can tend to snap back over the holes and keep all that blood inside.
Re the roadkill: You have proven yourself a true samurai. I would be honored to have you as my second.:worthy:
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
He is shocked all to hell that he hit a deer with his truck. Suddenly, some wild looking (yet mansome) carny looking dude rushes out, pins the deer, and slits it's throat. He looks at your bloody carny looking butt-- knife drawn, and blood spurting in the road, and you ask him, "You want this?"
Don't get me wrong... I would salvage a fresh roadkill just for the tenderloins, but you gotta see the other side of the coin here.
Of course he let you have the deer!
As soon as I saw the hole in the aorta, I immediately thought of just what you said. So, I was cool with the lack of external blood. There was plenty inside the chest cavity.
My concern is still with the lack of trauma to the internal organs. What I want is a quick kill. What I like to see.........is dramatic trauma to internal organs. That usually leads to what I want.
The result from the A-Max makes me happy, happy, happy.
;-)
I just laughed out loud. Because............that's exactly how it happened!!!!
Ha!!!!!
The funny thing..........this wasn't the first time. I have an even better story from a few years back. But, that needs to be over the phone. ;-)
Reuters, Dec 2020.
"The Un-Tactical"
No sacred ground here. I'm all about results. Brand loyalty has no place in reality. It either works, or it don't.
If it works, I'll use it till it doesn't.
Another good bullet is the 130 AB.
It has done well over variety of impact velocities.
Match Berger's has a thicker jacket than the orange box (original VLD).
Reason for the match bullets was that the originals were having some blow-up problems in match shooting.
Berger is good about working on problems when they arise.
"The Un-Tactical"
I'm not easily convinced. Then again, I'm not easily deterred either.
I need more data.
The A-Max is just such a beautiful bullet in many ways. Cheap, accurate, and effective.
I've used the .30cal A-Max mostly. But also the 6mm and now the 6.5 as well. I use the 7mm 162gr A-Max as well. Just haven't killed anything with it yet. But, it's Hell on targets.
Idiots.
If it's not raining. I'm not taking that pretty gun in the rain.
Yes. She is pretty. She is a lady that wants to do lady things-- not a queen!
The .280 is the last of the guns that needs to kill something.