Breaking in the .280 Remington. (Caution - Autopsy Photos)

ZeeZee Senior MemberPosts: 20,132 Senior Member
Houston, we have a problem!

Took the kids and my Ruger M77-V in .280 Remington out hunting yesterday evening. Set up on the edge of a field and right at dusk, a doe and two yearlings came out at about 120 yards. Now, if you remember, I'd had a few questions with the 130gr Berger Bullets I'd used in my .260 Remington the other day. Because of those questions, I wanted to try and mirror the same shot as best I could with 140gr Berger Bullets out of my .280 Remington.

So, I waited for the doe to turn and stand, but she wasn't staying still much. Feeding as she moved along. Finally, I had a broadside shot at a feeding walk. Put the bullet right behind her shoulder and she jumped straight up in the air. Hit the ground and ran a semi circle back into the brush with yearlings in tow.

It felt like a good shot and I was comfortable with myself. About 2 minutes later, the two yearlings walked back into the field. This made me even more confident with my shot as they had left her and returned to the field. So, having my original test complete, I decided to drop one of the yearlings with a head shot. Again, at about 120 yards............POP......down it went.

Walked over and retrieved the yearling and took a couple pics.

CAUTION! HEAD SHOT!!!!!!

Copyof280Rem140grBergerHeadShot01-132.jpg

Yeah, small. But, the quarters smoked and wrapped and cooked over the grill are going to be awesome!

Head was facing me at an angle so I put the round just above the eye and out the back of the opposite side. It was rather dramatic.

Copyof280Rem140grBergerHeadShot01-133.jpg

Now, the trouble started.

I went to where the doe was standing and found her dig marks. Then, a few feet away.........1 drop of blood. I began to track her running prints and within the first 30 yards, found exactly 5 sparse drops of blood. Once I entered the brush, the blood stopped and her tracks bgan to get jumbled up with other deer tracks.

Now, I can track! It's what I do. But keeping a line on her in that brush and distinguishing her prints from other fresh deer sign was a pain in the butt without the bonus of blood and in the dark. After 100 yards, I felt pretty confident that I had her to the property fence but, getting her there had taken awhile and the kids were getting restless.

I KNEW this deer had to be dead! My shot felt good and with the second head shot, I knew the gun was on. But, only 5 drops of blood and 100 yards!!!! I knew she was over that fence but the grass on the other side was waist high and I couldn't see her or any blood. Talk about pissed off!

It was supposed to freeze last night so I knew the meat would be fine. I planned to come back at the break of dawn with permission to cross that fence.

Returning with permission as the sun came up, I quickly searched the known area for her or more blood. Nothing! I went back to where I figured she'd crossed the fence and went over searching the area. She ended up being about 10-15 yards inside the fence. As I looked at her frost covered body..........a pool of blood lay on the ground 5 feet in front of her. Where was THAT when I needed it!!!???

All night I bounced back and forth between being confident of the shot and doubting myself. It was driving me crazy! Seeing the placement of the entry wound..........I felt vendicated.

(Sorry about the crappy phone pics. I forgot my camera this morning)

Entry:
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-13.jpg

280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-132.jpg

280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-135.jpg
I was hoping to tuck the round a little tighter to the shoulder like the .260 Remington deer. But, with her walking, I was a few inches back. But still, RIGHT THROUGH THE LUNGS!!!

Exit:
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-131.jpg

280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-133.jpg

280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-134.jpg

Entry to ribs: (no bone hit going in)
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-139.jpg

Entry to lungs:
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-136.jpg

Center of lungs: (Entry on left / Exit on right)
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-138.jpg

Exit from lungs:
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-137.jpg

Exit through 1 rib:
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-1310.jpg

Path: (L to R)
280Rem140grBergerBodyShot01-1311.jpg

The blood you see in the above picture is all that was in her chest cavity.

Glad I found her! She ran something over 100 yards (115 ?) and left a total of 5 drops of blood that I could find. Until 5 feet in front of her where I found the pool.

I am NOT impressed with these terminal performance results!

( I have some errands to run. I will return this evening to discuss further. Talk amongst yourselves. I'm pretty not happt right about now.)
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,490 Senior Member
    Yea, the bullet worked. But it doesn't look like it opened up very well. I would love to see what happens to that bullet when it is shot into milk jugs.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,213 Senior Member
    I love the cat in the picture.

    I'm a whole lot NOT impressed with the damage that bullet did.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • shootershooter Senior Member Posts: 1,186 Senior Member
    Just to be clear, are these the Berger bullets that they recommend for hunting?
    There's no such thing as having too much ammo, unless you're on fire or trying to swim!
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,213 Senior Member
    I think my hard cast bullets out of my 4570 moving 1/3 the speed did the same damage as your bullets.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,797 Senior Member
    A little far back and a little high up? Critter still had a fair amount of functional lung to propel her that final hundred yards. I'm guessing all the blood was pooling downwards in the chest, which was why no sign.

    I'm guessing by the massive blood clot that she fell over on the exit side, and that's when your puddle finally formed - or would that have been exhaled?

    And yes. . .LOVE the cat! "Are you gonna eat that?"
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,419 Senior Member
    The cat is hilarious,,,,bullet performance...mmmmmm not so much
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,235 Senior Member
    Heres what gets me... How do you guys just go out and shoot deer?

    Ive hunted for weeks without seeing a blessed thing. Wish I had better property/someone to teach me.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,235 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Now, I can track! It's what I do.

    Linefinder told you about this. If you would shoot a .270 with a good, separating cup and core bullet, you could call yourself a rifleman, rather than a tracker. ;)
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,213 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Linefinder told you about this. If you would shoot a .270 with a good, separating cup and core bullet, you could call yourself a rifleman, rather than a tracker. ;)

    PWNED!







    Of course, you gots no room to talk. Especially talking straight up SMACK. But hilaaaaaaaarious none the less
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,876 Senior Member
    I would not be pleased with the performance either.
    Glad you recovered the deer and the vindication of a good shot.
    Good to know the kids were out with you as well.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,249 Senior Member
    2 different caliber Bergers, 2x disappointment w/ the performance.
    :roll:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,235 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    PWNED!







    Of course, you gots no room to talk. Especially talking straight up SMACK. But hilaaaaaaaarious none the less

    I got plenty of room to talk. I've never had to track a deer.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,213 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    I got plenty of room to talk. I've never had to track a deer.

    But hes killed more deer in ONE DAY than youve kilt in your entire life.
    He has killed as many deer with a KNIFE as you have with a gun.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,577 Senior Member
    Nosler ballistic tips pretty much are all I shoot any more when I gun hunt, never had any expansion problems exhibited by your pics.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,285 Senior Member
    1965Jeff wrote: »
    Nosler ballistic tips pretty much are all I shoot any more when I gun hunt, never had any expansion problems exhibited by your pics.

    That.

    Here's why I love my .270 Win. Or.....I love my .270 Win loaded with 130 grain NBT's for deer.

    I've killed about 30 deer with it. I've fired 32 shots to do this. One deer I did a "coup de grace" on when it didn't expire from the double lung hit as quickly as I felt it should have, but in truth, the second shot wasn't necessary.

    The second one that required 2 shots was at 376 yards (my very first attempt at a LR shot on game) and the first shot was a complete miss due to misestimating the range. The second shot dropped it like a rock.

    That leaves....oh....a bit over two dozen other deer. One traveled about forty yards. One traveled about ten yards.

    The rest died within their own shadow via a single gunshot wound.

    I don't like tough (or even semi-tough) bullets for deer. Unless you make a habit of shooting them in the butt, it doesn't take much penetration to royally screw up a deers day. The quicker you start to scramble the innards, the better. NBT's are great at that. They make even a so-so coyote gun a deer slaying machine.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,235 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    But hes killed more deer in ONE DAY than youve kilt in your entire life.
    He has killed as many deer with a KNIFE as you have with a gun.

    Yeah yeah. He's been hunting all his life, too. I got catching up to do.
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,235 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    NBT's are great at that. They make even a so-so coyote gun a deer slaying machine.

    Mike

    What about close shots, Mike? You know what kind of conditions I'm hunting... My understanding about BTs was that they were primarily for aiding expansion when a bullet had lost its velocity. Also had a buddy shoot a deer at 60 yards with one and it cratered with little penetration.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 39,213 Senior Member
    That's what she said.
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,285 Senior Member
    I started using NBT's in my .270 in 1998. The horror stories you still hear repeated about "saucer like entrance wounds" with no penetration was pretty much a moot point by then. After initial disappointments in the field became obvious, Nosler thickened up the jacket on their "hunting" weight NBT's and that problem pretty much went away.

    I've never shot a deer at 60 yards, but I've popped a few between 80 and 100. I've never had a NBT fail to exit a white tail.

    Nosler calls any NBT under 90 grains a Varmint bullet, and all those 95 grains plus are deemed Hunting bullets. If you shoot a deer with 55 grain NBTs from a .243 Win, you'll likely not like them. But stick a 95 grain NBT in it and you're golden.

    Short story......up close or on out there, I've never experienced a "failure" against white tails with the hunting weight NBT's.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,235 Senior Member
    Thats my worry. Last deer I shot was 30 yards. That was with my treinta-treinta. But I'm worried about the NBTs.

    But I didn't know they thickened the jacket.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,285 Senior Member
    Ummm......I'd practically guarantee that if you bust a deer with any kind of a decent shot at 30 yards with your .270 stuffed with 130 NBT's......well......you'll have some skinning to do. I doubt you'd have to do any tracking, either.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • BuffcoBuffco Senior Member Posts: 6,235 Senior Member
    So I wouldn't have to call Zee?
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,132 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    He has killed MORE deer with a KNIFE than you have with a gun.

    Fixed it for you.

    ;-)
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,132 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    So I wouldn't have to call Zee?

    Call me anytime. I can help you find your head after your wife knocks it off for buying guns.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,285 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    So I wouldn't have to call Zee?

    Depends. Call him what?

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,132 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I would love to see what happens to that bullet when it is shot into milk jugs.

    That's a good idea! Controlled environment and see what they will do.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,132 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I love the cat in the picture.

    I'm a whole lot NOT impressed with the damage that bullet did.

    The ranch had a bunch of cats and they were some deer eating fools! They were munching and fighting over every leg, hide, or scrap that hit the ground!

    Yes, the damage was NOT what I was expecting with the whole, "Penetrate 2-3" and then shed 45-80% of their mass as shrapnel" description from Berger.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,132 Senior Member
    shooter wrote: »
    Just to be clear, are these the Berger bullets that they recommend for hunting?

    Yes, these are the Orange Box Hunting VLD bullets. In both 6.5 and 7mm the past couple days.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,132 Senior Member
    Buffco wrote: »
    Heres what gets me... How do you guys just go out and shoot deer?

    Ive hunted for weeks without seeing a blessed thing. Wish I had better property/someone to teach me.

    It's a target rich environment but you still gotta know where the targets are.

    This lends itself to lots of experimentation with different cartridges and bullets. Which, I like very much.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,285 Senior Member
    Rapier and I once shot a dogtown that had a herd of cats that'd go down into the pdog holes to drag out wounded ones. They'd pay no attention to the dead ones littering the field, but if you were a pdog and got winged, a terrible fate awaited you.

    Rapier posted some pics of it some few years back.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
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