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Best home defense weapon

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  • Zapp BraniganZapp Branigan Member Posts: 108 Member
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here.
    I don't care WHAT the parameters are concerning the person's age, physical abilities, or level of firearms knowledge and after-purchase training.
    If I wanna buy a gun for home defense and stick it in my nightstand drawer for years and wait for that scary time I need it and wake up at 3 AM in a foggy state of mind in the dark and don't want ANY problems with anything else but to know that what I got in my hand will go bang when I pick it up and pull the trigger,
    Make It A Revolver. Period.
    END OF STORY
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,462 Senior Member
    Make It A Revolver. Period.
    END OF STORY

    I have repaired more revolvers than auto loaders. True that while even with a cracked frame a revolver will probably still function, if something goes wrong with a revolver you usually have a tactical brick in your hands.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    My autos have not jammed, ever, since I stopped using cruddy ammo. I've had problems with revolvers, too, but not my Ruger.

    Let's see... firing hundreds of rounds thru my Springfields, no jams, no failures. So let's consider the statistical chances: odds maybe 1000 to one that my XD jams multiplied by odds of maybe 50,000 that I ever get home invaded anyway. That's like 100 million to one. Or something like that. Regardless of the numbers, the odds are phenomenal that such an event occurs. You also have to figure that IF the pistol jams, it would jam on the 2nd thru 5th cycle (making it still fire fewer rounds than the revolver. The math simply doesn't justify my switching firearms from something I prefer to something I don't, and shooting with a harder trigger pull anyway.

    If you think that's not a good calculation, how many jams has anyone here experienced in their own top quality, clean, properly lubed pistols, using quality ammo? Not a lot, I'll bet, or they wouldn't still own the pistol.

    I had a Colt that kept jamming and eventually sold it. Thus far the XD has not malfunctioned, however, so I'll stick with it.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    Wow, it's almost like I KNEW what you were going to say before you said it
    knitepoet wrote: »

    I know... your semi-autos are 100% reliable and NEVER fail/jam or anything like that, HOWEVER "murphy" says, if it ever DOES jam, it's going to be at the exact time you need it to save your life, and you may or may not have the strength to fix the problem. murphy has a knack for jumping up to bite you in the butt at the ABSOLUTE worst time
    Edited to add: feel free to carry what you will. Irregardless which of us is correct, it's not MY life on the line.
    I just made an observation from the outside looking in
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Soon to hit the big seven-zero and have moderate arthritis myself. Don't know whether this makes me frail or elderly, ha ha, but I do have difficulty racking my Springfield XD and XDM .45s, have to strain at times. I "cheat" by inserting an empty mag, then racking the slide till it catches (I just don't have the strength or coordination any more to rack the slide with this somewhat strong spring and push up on the slide lock at the same time). Then I eject the empty mag, insert full, and drop the slide -- after it's locked, I can at least pull it back to the stop and let go. It's locking it open and pushing the latch at the same time I just can't do any more.

    Sam...how are you running the slide on your pistols? If you're doing what I'm thinking you're doing, I bet I can tell you a different way to run your slide that will work every time...no problems, no matter what pistol you're using....I've taught this method to many folks who have had trouble manipulating a slide and once they got the hang of it...the problem went away...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    In My time at the range / gun store I think I was able to experience or at least observe virtually every type of malfunction of both revolvers and semiautomatics.

    In the semiautomatics if it was not a parts breakage, sometimes 1911's would lose a barrel bushing due to breakage, extractors would wear off or the claw would snap off.
    Most other failures could be cleared.

    Once a revolver either goes out of timing or has other issues, it should be repaired, or if you get a bullet stuck between the forcing cone and cylinder, your best bet is another handgun.

    I do not honestly think that between revolvers and semiautomatic handguns, after so many years of shooting both, there are too many factors and variables involved to make a blanket statement that one is more reliable than the other, they can both become inactive due to any number of ammo related operator induced or mechanical failures.

    We could make the following observation and be correct, a 1911 is robust and simpler and has a lower operational parts count than a quality S&W or Colt revolver, but that does not mean that either handgun will not fail in some unforeseeable way.

    However as knitepoet aptly explained, the ability to handle a revolver may be better for those with weak hands as opposed to the manual dexterity needed to manage a semiautomatic handgun.
    How well one can safely handle a handgun of any type may well be the best determining criteria in selecting a handgun for personal defense, or any firearm or weapon of any ilk for that matter.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    However as knitepoet aptly explained, the ability to handle a revolver may be better for those with weak hands as opposed to the manual dexterity needed to manage a semiautomatic handgun.
    How well one can safely handle a handgun of any type may well be the best determining criteria in selecting a handgun for personal defense, or any firearm or weapon of any ilk for that matter.

    I'll have to disagree with this. It's been my experience that most revolvers have a 7+ lb trigger pull, with many running 9+. Most decent semi-auto's are ~3.5-5 lbs. For anybody with weak hands or less than ideal dexterity, the semi-auto is simply going to be easier to operate (once it's loaded and good to go).

    I STRONGLY agree with the 2nd part of what you said though. Getting out and trying a few different guns is crucial to finding your own preference.

    Luis

    <eta> regarding the OP, I'd suggest a 20 ga as a good alternative for anybody who's uncomfortable with a 12 ga. Definitely FAR better than any handgun for SD.
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Case and point, My uncle Antonio had arthritis and could not reliably manage to rack a slide on any semiautomatic handguns and had problems with the revolvers I had him try, the only revolver he could manage was a rather expensive S&W top break revolver, I could never figure out why, but he was able to manipulate that model with ease.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • DuckaholicDuckaholic New Member Posts: 7 New Member
    I'd have to say hands down for older people........ Get Life Alert. Lol
  • DuckaholicDuckaholic New Member Posts: 7 New Member
    All joking aside I have a friend that's 67 and has rheumatoid arthritis and bought a .38spl. He couldn't even hardly hit a silhouette target at five steps because he was struggling so hard to pull the trigger. He had the trigger worked and still was rough at times. He can't pull an auto to chamber a round so I suggests the walther 380 which is fairly easy to chamber. In all u can't go wrong with a 20g buckshot. U can point and hit almost anything within ten feet
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,462 Senior Member
    Jeeper, trigger pull is only part of the battle. You must be able to hold a semi auto strongly enough to avoid limp wristing and stove piping a round. Secondly you must be strong enough to manipulate the slide in the event of a jam to clear it.
    I do agree that a revolver is better for someone who is older/weaker as they will be less prone to fail in that circumstance. Someone who isn't strong enough to hold the pistol solidly will have problems. You can get around stout trigger pulls on a revolver, there are spring kits, or you can shoot it single action.

    My mother is now about to purchase a .38 as her old .40 was getting hard for her to handle. She was having problems manipulating the slide, and I told her that was time to get rid of it.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jay, you're welcome to offer your suggestions on how I can rack the strong slide spring XD more easily. That I'd appreciate.

    I don't want to overdo this -- normally I can rack the XD or XDM slide, I just can't rack it and latch it at the same time, due to how I have to position my right hand so the thumb reaches the latch.

    But if the slide is closed, I can insert a full mag and rack it, loading a round as intended. It's locking the slide open that's tricky, why I use an empty mag for this.

    It's not as much lack of strength as it is lack of flexibility in the hands.

    But regardless, I've got plenty of strength and coordination to fire numerous magazines of regular or +P .45 ammo, 2-handed or 1-handed, left or right (I practice both) without getting shaky or irregular in the aiming and firing. My arthritic condition limits flexibility in my hands, mostly, but the strength that I have doesn't falter during a range visit. So I'm lucky there.

    I've also got fairly good trigger strength and can pull the trigger of DA revolvers (the hardest), my striker-fire pistols (XD and Glocks), and of course the sweet, sweet trigger of my 1911s. No fatigue there, either.

    Many postings and threads have dealt with home invasions and how to deal with them. Lots of folks envision a running gunbattle with a bunch of baddies, room to room, clearing one room, using the primary weapon then retreating to the "safe" room for heavier firepower, all the time being assaulted by hordes of hooded quasi-military militia dudes. And I suppose this can happen. Thing is, if my little 1-bdr apartment gets invaded by numerous well-armed trained baddies firing full auto, I'm toast.

    My scenario is different. My front door gets rattled and then kicked in. If I get my pistol in hand in time, I put 2-3 rounds into the first person through the door, 2-3 rounds into the next guy, and by then, it's over, either way. Either the first intruders are down, or they overwhelm me and I'm down, all within maybe 15-20 seconds. I'll never have time to reload because if they're within 5-10 feet of me (as they will be in my small place), they will only have to reach over and bust me upside the head, or shoot or stab me, before I can reload (or clear any misfeed).

    I'm counting on my colder nature (I don't get excited about things until afterward) to retrieve my XD or 1911 and fire at least a half dozen well aimed SD rounds at the target. I figure the chances about a zillion to one that I won't be assaulted by a whole squad of heavily armed troopers. If I do, I'm not going to be able to withstand it. No single person could unless he's in a movie.

    What I AM expecting is one or two armed kick-in muggers who target random small apartments for easy pickings. This can happen and does, more often these days, sadly. These guys will take a bit of time to get thru the very solid door I have, make some noise in the meantime, and allow me to have my XD in hand as a welcoming present. First guy in the door gets shot, and believe me, I have no qualms about defending myself quickly. I'm not a master-level shot but within 15 feet I'm very good. That's all it takes for my specific scenario. Close range, my XD .45 Tactical, and 14 rounds of +P CorBon. Can I take on all comers? No, of course not. But for the type of dangerous intruders who are 99% likely to be busting my door, yeah.

    I'm not dissing those here who feel that revolvers are the bottom line answer for some older, less experienced folks. I agree that a good quality 4" .357 is ideal for keeping in the bedroom drawer. It's just that I'm far more comfy with autos and will stick with them, barring any serious changes to my mobility.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Also wanna say this has been an excellent thread, good comments and thought, typical of the members in this forum, as always.

    I'm just a .45acp guy, is all, mostly of course with my 1911s, but I'm also happy with my XD, XDM, and Glock.

    I know that some folks have malfunctions or breakages. And yes it can occur with any gun. But mine are fairly new (5 years old max), I keep them spotlessly clean and lubed, and I only shoot premium "whitebox" or SD ammo these days. My pistols don't get out into the field or dirty, just home and the range. Misfeeds have been extremely rare and honestly, not a single malfunction in several years. Guess I'm just lucky, but bottom line, in the very close quarters of my smallish apartment, if I DO have a misfeed, I won't have time to fix it before I'm a goner. It's all gonna be over, either way, in less than a minute from the time the door kicks in. I'm counting on my getting 3-4 shots off and I expect those to count.

    Now, someone in a full size house or a larger property with outbuildings and such, sure, the scenario changes. Even a 2-floor house changes the issue because there may be time or need to retreat to a secondary position. And anyone with this sort of setup needs to plan accordingly, it's just smart to do so.

    But for me, I'm either sitting in my recliner watching TV or working on my laptop, standing in the kitchen 5 feet distant, or I'm in the bedroom. Either way, I've got a loaded .45 pretty much within reach, and that's all I think I'll need, because any home invasion at my small place will be over very soon.

    Thanks to all for the great comments here -- different opinions but all of them thoughtful and interesting. The guys here are tops!
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    Most often I find that people who are having trouble running the slide on an semi-auto are holding the pistol in their right hand and pinching the slide with the thumb and forefinger...

    OK Sam...here we go...

    I assume you are right-handed

    Hold the firearm close in to your chest muzzle facing to the left, angled slightly away from your body with your trigger finger in the "index" position. Now, place your left hand over the top of the slide, palm over the ejection port. At this point you should have four fingers gripping one side of the slide and your thumb on the slide serrations at the rear of the slide.

    Now...PUSH to the left with your right hand and PUSH to the right with your left hand. You are using the strength of both arms to run the slide.

    If you want to lock the slide, simply move your right thumb up when the slide is fully retracted. The slide lock should be right under your thumb.
    If you have a full magazine in the firearm, just release the slide at the end of the stroke.

    At no time during this evolution is your muzzle covering any body parts...

    I've taught lots of women, young people, and older folks this method and it works pretty much every time...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,462 Senior Member
    Jay, the method you just described works great. One small variant I have seen puts the left hand a little further back on the slide so the tips of the fingers can touch the web area between the thumb and index of the right hand. This allows you to also use your fingers as well as your 2 arms.

    Sent from my Motorola Atrix 4G via Tapatalk
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Guys, let me offer an alternative. Since at least one of the scenarios we're discussing involves self defense by elderly people with somewhat diminished physical capacity, the realistic expectation of them firing more than a few shots with any sort of weapon is minimal. If the situation can't be resolved with 5 or 6 rounds, it's not likely to end well. How about a single action revolver such as a Ruger Blackhawk, in a fairly controllable chambering such as .38 Special (or a .357 with .38's in it)? The hammer is pretty easy to cock, and the trigger pull is measured in ounces, not pounds. Sure, if the fight involves a reload, there's a distinct disadvantage, but I can't really imagine my 86-year-old mother getting off six shots with her arthritic hands with any sort of double-action revolver or being able to grip an autoloading pistol firmly enough to avoid a limp-wrist jam, let alone racking the slide. Thumbing a hammer back and touching off a Blackhawk repeatedly should be well within her capabilities. Just another suggestion- - - -definitely not the best choice for those of us who still have some hand/wrist strength and who shoot regularly, but it's definitely an option for those folks who need a last-ditch defense choice that's more effective than a scream or a call to 911.
    Jerry
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Jeeper, trigger pull is only part of the battle. You must be able to hold a semi auto strongly enough to avoid limp wristing and stove piping a round. Secondly you must be strong enough to manipulate the slide in the event of a jam to clear it.
    I do agree that a revolver is better for someone who is older/weaker as they will be less prone to fail in that circumstance. Someone who isn't strong enough to hold the pistol solidly will have problems. You can get around stout trigger pulls on a revolver, there are spring kits, or you can shoot it single action.

    My mother is now about to purchase a .38 as her old .40 was getting hard for her to handle. She was having problems manipulating the slide, and I told her that was time to get rid of it.

    Some Auto's are far less prone to limp-wristing issues than others. Anybody who has issues holding a semi-auto well enough to shoot is going to have issues holding a revolver well enough to shoot as well though.

    Shooting single action *is* a good option though and frankly something I wasn't really even considering. For that matter, like Teach mentions above, a Single Action revolver might also be a good option.

    Bottom line is still that whoever it's for, they're best served by going to the range with a few good options, and finding something that works for THEM.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • gunwalkergunwalker Member Posts: 479 Member
    I propose a slightly different approach to this problem. I had this same conversation with a friend who retired from the state police. After a long pause he replied that he would make a firearm the third line of defense. In his experience a very high number of home intruder scenarios happened after dark or very late at night. People are vulnerable during sleep. Particularly seniors who are likely to have vision and/or hearing problems. The first line of defense in his view was a motion detector that would turn on lights and or a loud alarm. Analogous to a smoke detector waking you from a deep sleep. The second item, where feasible would be a medium to large size dog The dog may detect trouble before the alarm is sounded. If the dog is asleep when the detector turns things on, his presence may scare off an intruder. The main point is that a firearm can only be used if someone is fully alert and not taken by surprise. Then that firearm should only be what the homeowner is competent to shoot.
    We do not view the world as it is, but as we perceive it to be.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Jay, the cross-hand cycling method is exactly the one that I use -- contrary to where both hands are pointing toward the muzzle and you pull the slide toward you.

    As I said, although it's a bit of a struggle, I can cycle the pistol holding it as you describe. Regardless, my arthritic stiff hands just don't let me have the flexibility in the right hand to reach the mag latch and push it up while at the same time keeping my palm centered on the rear grip enough for the racking action. Once in a while I can get the latch up, but not usually. My left thumb's too stiff.

    This is moot anyway. I'm not going to be in a tactical situation where reloading or clearing a jam is possible, because there simply won't be enough time. The baddies will be in the same room with me and almost within reach from the time that they breach the front door. So it's incumbent on my pistol to function properly and not jam. It it does, well, that's showbiz.

    But I've proven to myself many many times at the range that the pistol isn't going to malfunction. Here's my typical scenario -- the range where I go is very relaxed about regular customers and card-carrying members, so we can bring loaded weapons right into the firing area. When I go shooting I'll take my defense pistol "as is" to the range, loaded and ready, no change from where I plucked it from next to my bed or recliner. First thing I do is shoot the whole magazine of +P Corbons at the target, quick fire, fairly close (12-15 feet), to simulate defending from a break-in. About 75% will be in the black, the rest in the target ring and near-black. And no jams. I've done this for a number of years and I've yet to have a single malfunction.

    So I'm about as confident as most anyone can be that my pistol (XD or 1911) will do the job.

    Regarding the non-firearms option, I do have an alarm on the doors, a small battery gadget I installed. But there won't be a dog, unless you'd like to instruct my cat as to how to live with a large dog in a small apartment and come by my place twice a day to walk the dog for me -- ha ha. Re. the Life Alert, that's what cellphones are for and I've always got mine within reach.

    What I've got for home defense isn't perfect but I think it will do just fine for now. My arthritis is stabilized and I'm in reasonably decent health for someone with a bum ticker. And I can shoot my autos just fine, thank you.

    I hate to say it, but there's this patronizing -- even though well meant -- idea about older folks that just because they may have some difficulty getting around, their whole mind and body system is suspect, and should all be mandated to only shoot a .22 wheelgun like gramma used on the farm back in ought-five.

    Look -- if some older folks are potentially senile then they shouldn't have any firearms, period, just like some of them can't be allowed to drive any more. But if the person is alert and okay, handling and firing a nice mid-size 9mm auto should be just fine. If loading and firing an auto is "too complicated" then firearms shouldn't be available at all. Now, many older people grew up with a revolver and not an auto, and if they prefer a wheelgun, fine. Myself, I was shooting Dad's 1911 when I was eight.

    People are always coming up to me -- strangers who mean well -- "Sir, are you okay?" or "Can I help you?" and I'll smile at them, "My knees are bummed out but my brain works just fine. Thanks anyway." I appreciate the kind words but it's patronizing.

    If I ever become unable to pick up my .45 and shoot 6-7 rounds into a handy approaching target, then it will be time to reassess my self defense strategy. Till then I'm good to go.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    Sam, do you keep a copy of you "script" taped/pinned to your front door so any perspective bad guys can read it and make sure they follow it?
    I mean, you have such a detailed plan on exactly what's going to happen, you must have shared it so everyone knows their part
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Ouch !!!!
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Sam, do you keep a copy of you "script" taped/pinned to your front door so any perspective bad guys can read it and make sure they follow it?
    I mean, you have such a detailed plan on exactly what's going to happen, you must have shared it so everyone knows their part

    Er, no, and frankly I don't understand the tilt of your comment. I don't have multiple entry points to my apartment -- there's ONE door. So baddies will probably enter there. I suppose there are some who haven't read the script and therefore will use a rocket launcher to breach my outside wall and come in that way. Is that the sort of thing you're thinking about? Or I guess they could break into the apartment upstairs and drill through my ceiling? Gosh, knite, you're right! I haven't considered that. I don't have a chimney so the Santa route is right out.

    Because there is essentially ONE scenario: Armed men kick in my front door. I don't have a kitchen door or other door access to my apartment. If you've got a secondary situation, knite, then let's hear it.

    Okay, for me, the ONE possible situation is that armed men (or one man) kicks in my front door in a home invasion. Are we on the same page for this?

    Now, if they're "trained ninja" shock troops armed with automatic weapons and they come in blasting, or maybe toss a frag into my living room first, as I DID SAY previously, I'm toast and freely admit it. I suppose there are a few Steve Seagal types out there who, if assaulted by a group of trained soldiers, can stand them off singlehanded. I'm certainly not one of them.

    However, if the "standard" home invasion occurs -- one or two thugs with handguns, maybe a shotgun, kick in the door, there's a pretty good chance I'll shoot them first. Not because I'm some expert, but simply because kick-in crooks aren't normally prepared for an armed homeowner who's got a firearm at close reach.

    It's all a matter of seconds, as I see it. They shoot me first or I shoot them first. They've got an element of surprise but I'm fairly well prepared, too (I guess I could sit all day and night with my pistol in hand, aimed at the door, but I gotta go to the john sometime). Other than some silly "gun in hand always" tactic, having a loaded XD .45 within easy reach is about all I can do -- if you think there's a better way for me to defend myself, other than a loaded pistol next to me, knite, please tell me.

    As I SAID, those with a big house or outbuildings or those who're responsible for protecting an entire settlement will need different options and preparation. But for me, with ONE front door, knite, posting instructions is pretty much moot. They come in the front door or they don't come in. Unless they're mole people and burrow up thru the concrete slab. Is that what you're hinting at, knite?
  • lightkeeperlightkeeper Member Posts: 168 Member
    NN wrote: »
    I think all these comments are great. I, also, think the reason for one to ask such a question in needed; was it idle conversation or a serious question.

    If you think they are serious, size them up and make your best suggestion base on your responses here, then suggest they find a LGS or range that teaches new shooters and has varied guns to try out.
    I agree that the comments are great. Based on the seniors that I work with, I think the questions are serious. I plan on using what I learn here to give the best options based on thier
    personal abilities.
    If there was a Thanks option to reply here I would have pushed it a lot.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Lightkeeper, as an "official" senior -- I'll be 70 in September -- let me also recommend that you or your staff don't lump all seniors into one basket. That tends to hack us off.

    For firearms & seniors, you're likely to find as many possible options as you might find with younger people. Some will be very set in their ways, having only experience with, say, a .22 or .32 revolver, and feel comfy with that. Some will be just as eager to learn new firearms and new tactics as a 24 year old. Some may have minor disabiloties, such as moderate arthritis, but be otherwise ready to go.

    Each client will be different and older folks really resent being lumped into one group. I speak from personal experience. And good luck -- be sure to report back to us on your experiences.
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    knitepoet, I'm not trying to nitpick with you, understand.

    But there are only a very few possible scenarios regarding a home invasion in my circumstances, and it all boils down to somebody doing a kick-in on my front door in a surprise attack. There's just no other feasible scenario for me.

    I mean, sure, a team of special ex-rangers could wait under cover till their sniper team gets me in the head with a .50 Barrett from 400 yards, aiming at me as I sit in my recliner typing on my laptop. Then the rest of the trained ninja-type team can take their time ransacking my apartment, stealing my 240 bucks cash and all my classical CDs. That could happen.

    But it's 99.99% likely that a home invasion at my place will come from a simple kick-in by one or two robbers. That's how random invasions normally occur. And I think I'm about as ready for that as reasonably possible, barring setting up a barbed wire redoubt around my living room.

    A note on the door wouldn't make much difference anyway -- they probably couldn't read it.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    Scene 1: Sam sitting in front of his computer, working on his next best seller. Acts startled by noise outside his door. Grabs his firearm

    scene 2: (outside his front door)No more than 1 or 2 illiterate heathens armed with Lorcins prepare to kick in his front door

    Scene 3: (back inside Sam's apartment) Sam stands ready as the door is kicked in
    Sam sees armed invaders, they attempt to shoot at our hero, but one misses and the other's pistol jams.
    Sam calmly stands delivers 2-3 center mass hits to each of the armed heathens, killing them instantly

    Scene 4: Police come and remove "trash" from Sam's entry way

    Scene 5: Sam back at his computer, continuing to work on his next novel


    Did I miss anything?

    I love how YOU'RE the one that always brings up the "rangers" "snipers" etc to try and blow off ANY negative comment by taking it to the point of absurdity.

    Do I know what's going to go down in the event of a home invasion at your apartment? NOPE don't have a clue but then NEITHER DO YOU You do seem to have it all planned out in your mind though. God help if it's doesn't go down exactly like you planned. You have put yourself in a rather small box with your way of thinking.

    Another plausible (and some times common around these parts) scenario.

    Scene 1: Sam sitting in front of his computer, working on his next best seller. Hears a knock on his door. Grabs pistol and goes to investigate. See's young, well dressed, distressed female standing outside his door.

    Scene 2: Young woman claims to be in need of assistance begs for help

    Scene 3: Sam opens door to assist young woman, accomplice hits Sam with club.

    Scene 4: Police come take statement from Sam. Sam gives description and serial numbers of stolen firearms


    Hey, guess what? Scenario 2 doesn't quite fit into your script, but I can post up links to folks that have been arrested eventually after perpetrating that EXACT scenario multiple time. No "ex-rangers", no "snipers" nothing out of the ordinary or into your realm of absurdity.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    Here are a few of your "Illiterate heathens"
    The Aurora Police Department reports that in July 2006 a Marine reservist and Maniac Latin Disciple gang member who had served in Iraq was charged with attempted murder in the shooting of three teenagers in Aurora, Illinois.
    According to FBI investigative data, in April 2006 a Blood member and active duty soldier at Fort Lewis allegedly robbed a bowling alley on base and is a suspect in a home invasion robbery in Olympia, Washington.

    Sounds like illiterate, ignorant heathens to me :roll:

    Yet you still cling to the fallacy that you're going to be better armed and better trained than anyone who might try a home invasion @ your residence.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    About the young female? Sorry, no, I don't open my door to anyone again. I made that mistake a few months ago and luckily, nothing happened. But I was persuaded by the folks here that I'd erred and I've decided otherwise. No more door opening.

    Your synopsis of the 1st premise is pretty biased in my favor, but essentially the bottom line is: someone has to kick in my front door to get in to attack me. That's the only way there is for them to get in. Okay? Have I got your agreement there?

    And I did NOT NOT NOT NOT say that I was capable of withstanding a well organized attack from Iraq war vets or otherwise. Did I? In fact I DID DID DID DID say that if a well trained and armed attack occurs, I'm probably toast. If you didn't read this previously then you need to search for "toast" in my previous postings. Sorry for the stuttering but somehow you DID overlook what I said.

    I do NOT NOT NOT know the outcome of such an event, and I NEVER said that I did. Anyone else who reads this thread will see that, even if you continue to deny it. What I DID say was that I'm probably as well prepared against a home invasion as I could be. I guess I could hire some ex-Seal Team 6 guys to stand guard at my home 24/7 or I could move to some sort of hardened site, like the Colorado SAC mountain.

    Otherwise, assuming otherwise, I've got ONE front door and I've got a loaded XD .45 within easy reach. As I said previously, duh, if I'm overwhelmed first, that's that. I just am hoping that I'm a better shot than the break-in guys or that they really don't expect a fairly rapid armed response. That's all.

    Knite, challenging you: TELL ME what I'm supposed to do? Set up a perimeter with concertina wire? Mine my doorway? Hire some ninjas? I'm just one dude and if I'm surprised too quickly and the baddies overwhelm me or shoot me first, done is done. Otherwise I'll get them first. It's a coin toss, I guess.

    You've got it into your head that I've previously claimed total victory in advance. I NEVER did. I simply said that I've done all I can reasonably be expected to do to provide myself with armed defense, other than maybe having a self-firing machine gun aimed at my door from inside, or something equally goofy.

    Please read my earlier posts, knite, and then tell me where I predicted the outcome or where I denied that I was possibly able to be overrun. It can happen or I can defend myself adequately. I in fact admitted that I could lose the "race" and if you did read my posts you'll see this to be true.

    Where have I gone wrong, oh great knite? How should I better prepare? Have a pistol in each hand? Hire Chuck Norris? WWKD -- what would knite do? Jeez.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Well here is a nice one that happened to Me one night.

    I was living in the Dominican Republic at the time, in a very old wood home, with the security of old Swiss cheese and moldy crackers.
    One balmy night as I was dozing in bed, I hear a sound like a huge rat chewing on wood, I tried hard to ignore it, but it was like the drip of water on a pie tin in the sink, so I got up to locate the sound and fetch the wainscoting a kick and drive away the offending rat.

    I followed the sound right up to the front door, it was inset and between two shuttered windows that allowed Me to see the front door.
    I could see a fellow hunched down working on My crappy door, making the crunching noises, being young and stupid, I wanted to see how it would play out, so I sat in a chair in My alcove and waited with a good view of the door.

    Pretty soon, My cheese and cracker door gave way and the guy slinks in, he has a flashlight, and lucky for me, he lights up My desk and starts for it, and gets to rummaging through the drawers.

    With My odd sense of humor I turn on the lights, I am still in the dark alcove and the desk is lit nicely so he can't see Me. But he sure could hear Me, and I ask, are you looking for anything special or can I help you find something ? and he fires two shots in My direction putting two holes in "The Savior" high on My alcove wall, missing Me by a wide margin lucky for Me.

    I pretty much went hog wild and fired off six rounds from My issue Colt Officers model revolver / wimpy .38 special 158 grain RNL, oddly enough two of them splatted the right place and he decorated the wall with what little grey matter the fool had been graced with.

    Bottom line, I was really stupid, got really lucky, even though I was armed with an inferior weapon.
    Do not make the same mistakes.

    :guns:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    You know Sam, I had a fairly extensive post typed out and submitted, but I've decided it's not worth the effort.

    It's fairly obvious that neither of us particularly care for the other, so I'm going to make things VERY simple.
    This forum has a lovely little thing called an "ignore list" and I am going to put it to good use.
    So instead of having to try and read your long winded posts any more, all I'll see is THIS
    Sam.jpg

    I wish you well in your retirement good luck, God bless and GOODBYE
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


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