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Cabellas new policy for New Yorkers

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Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    So, essentially, anyone can buy a firearm for anyone else, as long as they claim ignorance?
    That wasn't the point I was getting at, but technically... yes. My point was that since the "gangbanger" has never been indicted, charged, or convicted of a felony and all the other stuff, they have a clean record in the eyes of the law anyway.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    So, essentially, anyone can buy a firearm for anyone else, as long as they claim ignorance?

    What's your problem? You have been given more than enough information DIRECTLY FROM THE ATF REGS to answer your question. If you don't like the ATF regs then take your PMS rant to them. Or move to NY and make the question you're asking moot.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Read those instructions on page 4 of the 4473 link I posted. It lists some instances where you cannot & SPECIFICALLY mentions that you can't buy for a "prohibited person"

    Really, you don't say! So it's not a straw purchase if I claim I did not know they were prohibited. Easy as that, right? So why is there even a straw purchase law?
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,644 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    What gospel are you talking? :chill:
    YOUR EXACT quote reposted again below

    You need to calm the F down!

    The ATF barely knows their own rules and you are going to pretend to be the authority on it?
    Never claimed to be an authority, but I CAN read and COMPREHEND English
    You're stating that as a FACT, when you are COMPLETELY WRONG
    Michakav wrote: »
    You cannot buy the firearm as a gift. That would be a straw purchase.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    What's your problem? You have been given more than enough information DIRECTLY FROM THE ATF REGS to answer your question. If you don't like the ATF regs then take your PMS rant to them. Or move to NY and make the question you're asking moot.

    Don't have one. What is yours?

    So i gather that you agree with straw purchases? As long as you claim you did not know they were prohibited?
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Really, you don't say! So it's not a straw purchase if I claim I did not know they were prohibited. Easy as that, right? So why is there even a straw purchase law?
    Because if the prosecution can prove that you knew otherwise, you could be facing prison time.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    You're stating that as a FACT, when you are COMPLETELY WRONG

    Did not mean it to be fact. If you can't agree that it is a slippery slope, then more power to you. If you want to take that chance go for it.
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Because if the prosecution can prove that you knew otherwise, you could be facing prison time.

    And just how would they prove that?
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,644 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    You have been given more than enough information DIRECTLY FROM THE ATF REGS to answer your question.
    Exactly, You got a problem with the regs, take it up with BATFE, I'm quite certain you can get to their "contact us" page from the link I posted. I'm done trying to educate you, you apparently enjoy your ignorance too much
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Let us say that some dude that I have never met before offered me $500 to buy him a $400 gun. While I could claim (and be truthful) that I was ignorant to the guy's background, I have serious doubts that my ignorance is going to keep me out of prison for making a straw purchase.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Exactly, You got a problem with the regs, take it up with BATFE, I'm quite certain you can get to their "contact us" page from the link I posted. I'm done trying to educate you, you apparently enjoy your ignorance too much

    Your funny!
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Let us say that some dude that I have never met before offered me $500 to buy him a $400 gun. While I could claim (and be truthful) that I was ignorant to the guy's background, I have serious doubts that my ignorance is going to keep me out of prison for making a straw purchase.

    Thank you for making my point!!!!!!!

    According to knite though, you would be 100% justified in doing so and could NOT be held liable.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    And just how would they prove that?
    Honestly-- I am not sure. Maybe by showing photos of me attending that person's felony trial and records that I visited them in prison. I don't know...
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,644 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    I'm done trying to educate you,
    Michakav_zps0575c2c1.jpg
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Michakav_zps0575c2c1.jpg

    Whatever will I do now? Grow up!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Don't have one. What is yours?

    So i gather that you agree with straw purchases? As long as you claim you did not know they were prohibited?

    No, I don't agree with straw purchases, and when I held an 01 FFL knew to whom I was selling. I did not then, and do not now deal with people who I have reason to believe are not telling me the truth. I have given a few rifles I've built as gifts to one family member and a few friends. AND I KNEW FOR A STONE COLD SOLID FACT THAT THEY WERE NOT PROHIBITED PERSONS. It is ENTIRELY on the person's back giving the firearm as a gift to KNOW the person to whom the firearm is given is not a prohibited person. You may think you can read and comprehend the ATF rules; read YES; comprehend, not hardly.

    The facts are the FACTS; YOU are not entitled to your own set that meets your particular needs, and are diametrically opposed to the TRUTH.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    No, I don't agree with straw purchases, and when I held an 01 FFL knew to whom I was selling. I did not then, and do not now deal with people who I have reason to believe are not telling me the truth. I have given a few rifles I've built as gifts to one family member and a few friends. AND I KNEW FOR A STONE COLD SOLID FACT THAT THEY WERE NOT PROHIBITED PERSONS. It is ENTIRELY on the person's back giving the firearm as a gift to KNOW the person to whom the firearm is given is not a prohibited person. You may think you can read and comprehend the ATF rules; read YES; comprehend, not hardly.

    The facts are the FACTS; YOU are not entitled to your own set that meets your particular needs, and are diametrically opposed to the TRUTH.

    The ATF can't even comprehend their own rules and yet you would like to state them as law of the land.
    Much better to be safe than sorry regarding the convoluted rules of the ATF.

    Quit being butt hurt!

    Why are you 2 acting like I insulted your Momma or Sister?
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,558 Senior Member
    Y'all need to use this, especially in a certain sensitive part...
    sand+gone.jpg
    Overkill is underrated.
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,216 Senior Member
    Hey Blazer, Thanks for this information. In protest, I will not be doing business with Cabela's anymore. I usually buy something something from them every year,and have done so since,1999. I will locate another source for my gun needs,until Cabela's reverses this inept,and anti-2nd amendment,company policy.

    :uhm:
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    Much anger here as of late:uhm:
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,644 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    Much anger here as of late:uhm:
    No anger on my part, just an intolerance of misinformation being given as facts
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Y'all need to use this, especially in a certain sensitive part...
    sand+gone.jpg

    Not me you silly simian! :rotflmao: I have personally argued a locust fence post INTO the ground! And it dug its own hole. Just like someone here is doing. I don't care; I'll argue either side with equal tenacity. But I won't let a false statement about something like straw purchases stand. Someone might get the wrong idea and think they can't buy a family member or friend a firearm as a gift.

    How about this, breamfisher?

    LLwaiqOKVEapHEqyudxblA2.jpg
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    Much anger here as of late:uhm:

    Very true. I am bowing out of this one as I am trying hard to reign myself back in as stated in another thread. Not sure why I drew "the unholy wrath" tonight, but it doesn't bother me. If a certain few want to test the ATF's rules, then it's no skin off my nose.

    I just don't want newcomers to believe they can purchase a firearm as a gift for just anybody without knowing the consequences.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,862 Senior Member
    :popcorn:
    Very interesting
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,624 Senior Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    Very true. I am bowing out of this one as I am trying hard to reign myself back in as stated in another thread. Not sure why I drew "the unholy wrath" tonight, but it doesn't bother me. If a certain few want to test the ATF's rules, then it's no skin off my nose.

    I just don't want newcomers to believe they can purchase a firearm as a gift for just anybody without knowing the consequences.


    Not looking to fan flames, but have you ever bought a gift for 'just anybody'? I might buy a gift (or several) for my wife, I certainly buy gifts for my kids, and I've been known to hand out gifts to friends and relatives of all sorts. Other than the occasional random act of kindness, I don't recall buying a gift for 'just anybody'...and certainly not a firearm.

    Point being, if I'm buying a gift of that magnitude, I know the giftee more than well enough to know if he/she is elligible to own a firearm....and, if not and I 'gift' anyway, then I deserve what happens later.

    As to claiming ignorance, it don't work with speeding tickets, it sure ain't going to work with this.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 4,112 Senior Member
    My understanding of a "straw purchase" is that one enters into the purchase with full knowlage that the recipient could not have legally completed the transaction on their own. Both parties are equally guilty in this situation.
    Purchasing a firearm to give as a gift to a family member you know can legally own said firearm is completly above board.

    Sako
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,871 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    My understanding of a "straw purchase" is that one enters into the purchase with full knowlage that the recipient could not have legally completed the transaction on their own. Both parties are equally guilty in this situation.
    Purchasing a firearm to give as a gift to a family member you know can legally own said firearm is completly above board.

    Sako

    This. Knowingly purchasing a gun for someone who cannot legally buy one. More often then not its easy to spot...the people trying to do this (at least at my store) seem to be pretty stupid or sketchy and say things like "I don't care its your gun anyways, I mean.....my gun...."
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • U TU T Member Posts: 423 Member
    Michakav - I don't think anyone is trying to test the ATF rules, they are just following them.
    Gift of guns are legal, unless you knowingly give it to someone that is prohibited.
    On the atf form they ask if YOU are the person buying the gun, so if Blazer is buying he can give as gift.
    Blazer can not legally go purchase a gun for Dad if Dad gives money to Blazer and says go buy me this gun! That would not constitute a gift, and would be a straw purchase, even though Dad could legally purchase the gun himself.
    Dad can not go with Blazer to buy the gun and use Dad's credit card. The person purchasing the gun to be used as a gift must be the one buying it.
    Straw purchases just mean that you have to be the one buying the gun, regardless if you are trying to buy it for someone prohibited or not!
    Obviously the intent of denying straw purchases is to keep prohibited people from getting guns through deception on the atf form process!

    I looked into this at one time when I kept getting delayed, and wanted a certain gun, and after studying the rules on the atf site, decided that legally, even though I wasn't prohibited from buying it, it also wasn't legal for me to actually pay for it, with someone else doing the paperwork, it was best to wait for the delay process, and follow the letter of the law regarding the atf straw purchase guidelines.

    It really isn't that hard to understand, if you actually read the rules!
  • MichakavMichakav Senior Member Posts: 2,824 Senior Member
    I read it. What I am saying is that it seems to me that it would be easy for someone to skirt the law simply by claiming ignorance. I would not want to test the regs. unless I was absolutely positive.
  • U TU T Member Posts: 423 Member
    Michakav wrote: »
    I read it. What I am saying is that it seems to me that it would be easy for someone to skirt the law simply by claiming ignorance. I would not want to test the regs. unless I was absolutely positive.

    Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense though.
    I do realize how easy it would be to skirt the law, either through ignorance or through deception. Only the buyer would be the one knowing that it isn't his money being spent for the gun purchase. It's best to follow the law, and to understand the law. That is why I investigated thoroughly, before deciding it was not legal for someone else to get buy me a gun, even though I was legally allowed to own it! Technicalities can get you into trouble regardless of intent.
    I do feel that if someone doesn't know or fully understand the laws, it's better to be safe than sorry, and to error on the side of caution, but if you do understand the laws, not to be scared utilize what is legal.
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