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Has armed response stopped a mass shooting?

Dr. dbDr. db Senior MemberPosts: 1,541 Senior Member
I believe Sen. Feinstein has said one of these things hasn't ever been stopped by an armed citizen. I know the arguments why not and why some don't care about her opinion. Do you have any personal knowledge or news stories that refute her statement?

Replies

  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    There was one in a mall a few months ago. The ccw holder didn't get a shot off, but had the shooter pinned until he committed suicide.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
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  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,408 Senior Member
    Yes, there have been... and IIRC, Dr. db you know of one fairly personally.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    ...well, it kinda all depends...

    ...the FBI changed it'd definition of "mass shooting" to 5 victims, leaving a gap between "double homicide", so if you really want to stretch it, technically, the answer is "Yes", but that discounts a large number of shootings stopped by armed civilians before the shooters, who apparently had "mass shooting" in mind managed to hit the FBIs new "magic number". Their "intent" was obvious, but they were stopped by an armed civilianas soon as they started shooting...

    ...the casualty avg. where a shooter has faced an armed civilian is 2.5, the avg. where no civilian intervened is 12...

    ...it basically amounts to Feinstein spewing "Typical Liberal Bull"...
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,463 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Yes, there have been... and IIRC, Dr. db you know of one fairly personally.

    I thought his was unarmed. On ether account, my respect meter is pegged.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,408 Senior Member
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Here's an article listing several stopped by civilians.

    http://www.humanevents.com/2012/12/16/armed-civilians-really-do-capture-kill-or-otherwise-stop-mass-shooters/

    The guy in the picture with the AR looks eerily like one of our forum members. :silly: :tooth:
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  • tigman.uktigman.uk Member Posts: 332 Member
    A number of us has had this discussion on a few facebook pages and the general posting was that any shootings were stopped before they reached the mass shooting definition
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Member Posts: 156 Member
    In the 1966 UT texas shooting the killer would have killed and wounded more people if some law abiding gun owners had not pulled out their rifles and starting returning fire.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    This is my Facebook post on this topic. i was looking for specifics thanks for helping.
    Ms Feinstein seems to be "choosing her facts carefully". What about the shooting at the church in Colorado Springs? I believe there was another case when an armed person held the shooter at gun point until police came. In a third case, in Mississippi, a student began shooting and a principal got his gun from his locked car and stopped it. But most of all of course not very many of these things were stopped by armed citizens BECAUSE CONGRESS MADE LAWS THAT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE!!!! So the principal at Sandy Hook had to take on a shooter with nothing but fingernails. The Luby's Restaurant shooter wasnt confronted because at least one person who would have was required by law to keep her gun locked in her car! So Congress makes a law that says people, no matter how well trained or vetted, can't carry a gun on campus and then say no one has stopped a school mass shooting with a gun? By her logic, or lack thereof, the entire TSA should be disbanded because if hasn't stopped a single hijacking in progress. Some will point to Columbine and say that the officer didn't stop it in the parking lot. As i understand it he waited for SWAT because that was before the doctrine of individual response was adopted. It is like saying TSA didn't stop the 911 hijacking. Of course it didn't. It didn't exist then. I don't know whether carrying guns personally is something I want to do. It is a tremendous responsibility that I don't know if I am ready for but the emotion driven illogic is something that must be confronted because it causes legislatures to do stuff that won't work and then blame others. BTW the citizens in Alaska as portrayed in Yukon Men seem to use AR rifles for hunting a lot.
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member
    Yes the Colorado Springs Church shooting. Two church members were shot to death and three others were injured after a gunman opened fire outside the New Life Church in Colorado Springs as Sunday services were wrapping up.

    The gunman was shot by a church female security officer and was found dead when police arrived at the scene, said Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers. There have been others, but this and the Mall shooting in OR or WA come to mind.

    Politicians like Feinstein and other fail to acknowledge this because it does not support their agenda.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    Appalachian School of Law. Gunman was confronted by an armed good guy, dropped his gun and surrendered.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,561 Senior Member
    It's kind of hard to tell if a mass shooting has been stopped, sometimes, because the shooter might have been stopped before he killed a bunch of folks.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    It is kind of like asking how many forest fires were prevented because people put out their campfires properly. The question is a trap because there is no real way to quantify it.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    wildgene wrote: »
    ...well, it kinda all depends...

    ...the FBI changed it'd definition of "mass shooting" to 5 victims, leaving a gap between "double homicide", so if you really want to stretch it, technically, the answer is "Yes", but that discounts a large number of shootings stopped by armed civilians before the shooters, who apparently had "mass shooting" in mind managed to hit the FBIs new "magic number". Their "intent" was obvious, but they were stopped by an armed civilianas soon as they started shooting...

    ...the casualty avg. where a shooter has faced an armed civilian is 2.5, the avg. where no civilian intervened is 12...

    ...it basically amounts to Feinstein spewing "Typical Liberal Bull"...

    This is very true and is a BIG bunch of Liberal fertilizer for sure. They know it, but they're not giving in. Of course, there hasn't been one that stopped a "Mass Shooting" because as you said, if an armed good guy (or in the case of the incident in Colorado, Gal) is there, it never gets to be a "Mass Shooting" Because the armed good guy/gal, takes the shooter out before it gets into the masses.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,561 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    It is kind of like asking how many forest fires were prevented because people put out their campfires properly. The question is a trap because there is no real way to quantify it.
    Boy, those college courses are paying off for you!
    Overkill is underrated.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,535 Senior Member
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I was rereading the posts to this thread and about the statement attributed to Sen. Feinstein. How can a mass shooting be a mass shooting if it was stopped by armed response? This is directly related to the number of casualties posted here; 2.5 when there was a response and 12 when there was not. This is enough to make a time travel novel. So if I stop a shooting before it becomes a mass shooting it can't be a mass shooting and therefore I haven't stopped one. This is true if the response is armed or not and if the response was by a civilian or LEO who is present and acting in accord with the doctrine of individualized response. Therefore mass shootings cannot be preempted by any citizen present they can only be responded to by law enforcement after those present are dead or after those present have acted belatedly. This next is probably more relevant to my phrasing than anything else. You all probably got it already. Our narrative must not be about mass shootings it must be about random shootings or even potential shootings regardless of the number of casualties. This allows us a potential of 2.5 million refutations of Sen. Feinstein per year.
  • 5280 shooter II5280 shooter II Senior Member Posts: 3,923 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    I believe Sen. Feinstein has said one of these things hasn't ever been stopped by an armed citizen. I know the arguments why not and why some don't care about her opinion. Do you have any personal knowledge or news stories that refute her statement?

    In light of your most recent reflections of your initial post.....Sen. Feinstein is incorrect. Mass shootings HAVE been stopped by an armed citizen......because it's usually been the citizen who initiated the mass shooting in the first place, that has taken their own life, therefore, ending the mass shooting...... yes?
    God show's mercy on drunks and dumb animals.........two outa three ain't a bad score!
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,249 Senior Member
    In light of your most recent reflections of your initial post.....Sen. Feinstein is incorrect. Mass shootings HAVE been stopped by an armed citizen......because it's usually been the citizen who initiated the mass shooting in the first place, that has taken their own life, therefore, ending the mass shooting...... yes?

    I was following the logic until...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW27kyh7PVM
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Dr. db wrote: »
    I believe Sen. Feinstein has said one of these things hasn't ever been stopped by an armed citizen. I know the arguments why not and why some don't care about her opinion. Do you have any personal knowledge or news stories that refute her statement?
    Not many. Most mass shootings have occured in "gun free" zones. Schools, theaters, etc. Most intances of a crime being prevented by a legally armed citizen are mugging or home invasion.
  • JLDickmonJLDickmon Senior Member Posts: 1,726 Senior Member
    timc wrote: »

    that one just supports the anti-'s argument that it's OK for cops to carry off duty..
    Never laugh at your wife's choices.
    You are one of them.
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